I hate what they did to Johnny. A Mist Finer with ground slide? WTF was the point of that? The only combos I’ve seen any Johnny player get from those were either a FB Jackhound or KJT>KJ FRC. If Slayer can have Pilebunker and FB Pilebunker, Johnny can have two Jackhounds. One that covers a decent distance and one that’s a FB that covers alot of distance. Not to mention his options for damage without lvl.2 Mist Finer are not that great.
who will be at cf thi fridauy
Just got started on this… Testament is so much fun to play, even though I suck ass @ the game atm 
gimme 20 bucks and ill go!
use Nigga Sol, stupid.:bluu:
As soon as I saw that you posted in here, I knew it had something to do with Negro Install.
I want one of those t-shirts man. Nigga Chipp is dope, Africa Bambatta Mmm Bop Buhlay Slayer is the only one I can bear to look at. I don’t know if Anji Mutabo is in AC yet.
all about nigga chip.
and when i first found out that characters had dark skin alternate colors, i was in love with this game even more.
I don’t even have words for how stupid this is.
There lies the problem with you senior or veteran players, whatever you call yourself. Too damn quick to say something without even trying to understand where someone is coming from.
Okay, let me clarify. Sol is a rushdown type character correct? He fights close range correct? Sol has mixup right? And his mixup consists of a low/throw game? Pokes with that, setup for Wild Throw, Gunflame for pressure/mixup/oki. And yeah his new Grand Viper can bring big damage for him. Great.
Now lets take look at the other members of the cast who has mixup and fight close. Millia, I-no, Eddie, Order-Sol and Slayer and Jam. Everyone in the cast has overheads ofcourse, but some have better mixup than others. Look at Eddie(no not his unblockables)but his mixup game. He has low/throw/overheads and rushes down. Pretty much what Sol is doing right? Eddie has a command throw like Sol but Sol gets more damage off his. That’s fine. Now I’ll say it. No one in the cast has super fast overheads. That’s fine. That’s not my problem. I understand Sol’s playstyle. But how the hell can a character have a “mixup” game if they have pitiful overheads? But no, Sol’s mixup game consists of low/throw. Fantastic.
I play VF. In VF I play Jacky. He has mixup. He has low/throw and surprise: overheads that aren’t shit in speed. You know what that means? It’s means you can’t crouch block him all day. And yes he can throw like Sol too.
Another game is KOF:MIRA. I play Kyo Kusanagi in this game. Kyo like Sol, strives at close range. Like Sol, that’s his strength. Kyo also possesses a mixup game as well. While not all of his overheads are super fast, they have good speed.
This discussion Sol’s playstyle is done already on dustloop. I’m not going through it again. My frustration stems from the fact that mixup/rushdown type characters ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE REALIBLE OVERHEADS AND SOL DOES NOT. “But he doesn’t need them. He has Wild Throw.” Bullshit. That’s not a valid point as to why he shouldn’t have realiable overheads. I’m not saying he should get big damage off of them or frame advantage on block for them.
Now I’ll state it again: My frustration stems from the fact that mixup/rushdown type characters are supposed to have realible overheads and Sol does not.
This isn’t me being a scrub or bitching cuz I can’t play the game. That’s the constant excuse you senior or veteran players always use. This is me wanting to understand why doesn’t someone who fights close range and has a mixup game lacks realiable overheads. Sol shouldn’t have realible overheads becuase of his damage output? Nonsense. Order-Sol ahs realiable overheads. And fights JUST like Sol. And he has Sol’s damage output. Does he have realiable overheads because he has a charge meter?
You tell me. What? Is it because Sol is supposed to be so simple that overheads make him too complex of a character and he won’t be easy to pick up or some nonsense like that? Will it hurt his design? Will the new players of GG be turned away from Sol because he has overheads? Are people so bad at blocking that if Sol like Jam, Order-Sol, Slayer,Millia, Eddie has realiable overheads that they can’t block him? So what’s the reason?
That’s the worst rationalisation I’ve ever seen in my life.
btw
What time are you coming? I’ll be there some time around 4-4:30pm.
No offense, but if you’re good at making your opponent afraid of your third slow option (dust) over your other two fast options (low/throw), then you’ll get the dust to hit. Last time I checked, Sol has one of those, and it hurts.
Mixup is the inherent idea of switching between what options your character actually has. It’s not an all-encompassing term that means “all characters with throws, lows, and overheads”. From what it sounds like, you just want Sol’s dust to be less telegraphed (IE: Jam’s). That isn’t a terrible suggestion, but Sol’s dust does great damage, and it should be a reward for skillful mixup (in getting your opponent to forget it’s there long enough to land it).
Thank you for understanding where I’m coming from. Really, your insight has been so helpful.
@AKA
Yeah I know. I’ve landed those a couple of times in matches. I just need to maximize the damage I can get. But I didn’t really want Sol to have some well hidden dust. Truth be told, I been hit more by Sol’s dust than Jam’s. I feel that Sol should have realible overheads because of how he fights. I guess it’s just me then. I like having realaible overheads. I see the point of your post. I agree it’s skill. But damn, it’s really getting on my nerves that characters like Eddie have mixup like Sol ontop of his unblockables. This isn’t about Eddie though. I just feel that close range fighters need to have realiable overheads. Dust is good and all. But I guess I just want more options. I feel limited. I fare well with Order-Sol because I have the skill to utilize his mixup tools. Maybe I was never cut out to be a Sol player or some shit like that.
Okay, let’s start at the beginning.
Every character in this game has a dust. All dusts are overhead, but not all dusts are created equal. Some are quicker (Robo-Ky/A.B.A) than others (Johnny). Some are more subtle (Jam) than others (Dizzy). Some have special properties, like invincibility (Faust) or Guard Points (Anji). That being said, pretty much every character can set up their dust in a match, through misdirection/using the corner/whatever else.
Next, some characters can put their opponents into a state called “Fuzzy Guard”. For instance, if ABA comes at you with a low to the ground j.S, which is a jump cancellable move (and an overhead), she can choose to either land and 2K (LOW), or jump cancel the j.S and j.S again (OVERHEAD). Normally, j.S will whiff a crouching opponent from that JC’d height - but if you do it fast enough, the game will pretty much ignore the crouching hitbox and go with the standing one, and voila, instant overhead that leads to the rest of your opponent’s life.
Finally, some characters have ground overheads, like Order Sol, Millia, Eddie and Chipp that can lead to damage in different ways (like Roman Cancel, or in Millia’s case, helps out her disc mixup game.)
[Edit: Forgot about TK overheads, like Anji’s Birthday Cake.]
With that info, let’s talk about Sol. Sol’s got the ability to crank up someone’s guard gauge, scare them with a nasty uppercut, take like 40% from a command throw, and just put a lot of pressure on your opponent. On top of that, his dust can also deal a lot of damage - and you can certainly hit with it, especially shielded behind a gunflame FRC. Sol is NOT, however, as rushdown as Order Sol. OS is more of a pixie; he’s a little bit faster and a little more diverse, but not as straight up powerful. That’s the way it is.
I can’t tell you why or why not the designers chose to give OS an overhead normal and why they didn’t give Sol one. I also can’t tell you why they chose to give Order Sol Rock It, and why Slayer can throw a Pilebunker or Crosswise Heel. The fact is, Sol just doesn’t have an overhead, and your belief that a certain type of character is supposed to have a certain type of move won’t change anything. Lots of Guilty Gear’s characters break the norm and are very diverse. If you’re looking for a rushdown character with throw/low/overhead, you can find that. If you’re looking for someone more basic or more complex, you can find that too. But the fact of the matter is, Sol just doesn’t have an overhead normal, and is designed to get his mixup damage through Wild Throw and maybe dust.
Seems to me a character change is in order. ;p
Thank you my good man. That’s all I was asking. A clean straight foward answer.
And yeah, a character change just might be in order.
“Reliable” overheads? As opposed to… what? An overhead that only hits overhead 60% of the time?
And I can think of many, MANY very powerful up-close characters throughout the history of fighting games who didn’t have much in the way of fast, unique overhead options (not counting suicidal-unless-it-dizzies-or-kills overheads).
Mixup is not just high/low/throw/crossup. Frame traps, baiting, little positional things, do I reset pressure or do I go into my high/low right here… those are all mixups as well, and Sol has that in spades. When the best way out of Sol’s command throw (for most characters) is to hit buttons or backdash, why should Sol limit himself to low/throw as his mixup? It’s not like a low is inherently better at beating mash 2P when Sol has frame advantage.
Sol has a lot of ways to get back in when he has tension, he has scary damage off a CH and his command throw, he has a bunch of moves with various kinds of invincibility, he has backdash punishes, he can even do the generic overhead mixups (late airdash, string variations, and fuzzy guard situation) that are actually relevant at this stage in the game. He can do safe jump-ins to basic 3-way mixup, he can frame trap, he can do some weird fakeouts…
So why does he need a superfluous overhead?
Sol has way more dangerous close-range options than any character needs. Not having a fast, grounded overhead is hardly a detrimental thing… Dizzy is a MIXUP character with no ground overheads except for a slower and more telegraphed dust than Sol’s and yet she’s always had some of the deadliest overheads in the game… almost all of which are just late airdash or fuzzy guard setups anyhow. Ky doesn’t have any fast overheads and his pressure has always been solid and people get hit by Ky a LOT regardless of his lack of fast overheads. Jam’s main mixup is strike/throw, even with the least telegraphed dust and instant j2K giving her hard-to-block overhead options. Venom has crappy TK Mad Struggle (and pretty good TK FB Mad Struggle) but what does he do for overheads? Airdash/fuzzy guard, and he’s more of a pressure/frame-trap/zone character anyhow.
Sol just takes creativity… or audacity, at times. If you seriously need an overhead in your up-close offense, then yeah, the weakness is in you and not the character. This isn’t me being an elitist, just me being an honest jerk. If you seriously can’t think up a varied offense with all of Sol’s tools at your disposal… how is adding one more option going to help? Are you just going to be another HOS scrub who constantly runs/jumps in hitting buttons? Another ho-hum Millia with no sense of how to go into a mixup series instead of crappy one-shot mixup attempts? Another crappy Eddie player who always follows the exact same patterns? Do you seriously think that’s an improvement?
And that’s all without the obvious mention that sometimes the simple things are the best anyhow, and Sol has some really good simple stuff.
if you are looking for good overhead mixups play millia or zappa
i’ll mm you for it
but if you loose you buy me dumplings
i’ll be there all day
looking forward to the dumplings
Fixed that for you.
Or you could just be silly and play Jam, doing 90% combos just by touching someone with anything.
Sol has good mixups as far as hitting high vs low with low airdash shit after certain knockdowns IMO.
In GG, there are characters with a huge focus on overheads but really if you want overheads that are fast just play as someone who has them. Sol gets retarded damage from his dust combo if he hits with it anyway, and the fact that it is rarely used makes it a good tool to just toss in every once and a while. Sol is a baiting character, whether or not thats by design (it really isn’t i dont think), but he is just a baiting character. All he does is bait all day, and he has great moves to bait with and to punish. If you don’t want a character like this, then do not play as Sol
I’m meant overheads that give a reason as why you have to keep on your toes when [insert character] begins their mixup or rushdown. Like Jacky in VF or Kyo in KOF. Sol’s overheads are barely mixed into his gameplan. That’s what I’m taking about. Like how Johnny players use tk Ensenga to give their opponents a reason to be cautious when blocking low. With Sol, it feels like aside from his dust, he doesn’t give a reason to “fear” blocking him low. I know a major factor is the player themselves. Maybe the player dosen’t see the worth in Sol’s dust. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m stupid to believe that someone who fights close range should have an overhead worth fearing. To me, Sol doesn’t. So fine. It’s me. It’s done. I should just drop Sol and switch to I-no or Venom cuz they have overheads that I can build into how I play. And maybe I’m bad at baiting. Whatever. I’m tired of this. I should have quit GG when I had the sense to do so.