Yep. It annoys me how people just look at the frames and say what and what not to use. If you push them out of range of any of their quick moves then it’s better to mash it because you get out of range of anything they can do. For instance if you don’t mash it and are point blank against a Ryu he can SRK - Ultra. If you mash it and get out of range of whatever he’s got he can just sweep/super (prehaps a MK into something beefier). If you are going to get punished big either way (Ryu or Chun’s Super ect) you might as well mash it anyway to get the extra chip damage.
Great vids. Those announcers knew dick about Dee Jay, though.
I got a video in the pipes that might excite you DJ players. It’s a new U2 combo. I’ll give you a clue as to what it is: ‘It’ll probably be way easier in Arcade Edition’. It’s not practical now but in arcade it may be a useful setup.
i don’t really like how you played the matchups Viscant. I did like all of your safe setups. safe knee shots, nice safe crossups.
i think you should have zoned against vega til you got a lead then rushed down. Most vegas use all of vegas low pokes when they get in and sobat beats them all.
against cammy i usually zone and keep her jumps out with standing mp. You made the mistake of trying to play footsies with her. Cammy’s st. roundhouse beats all.
Why no ex mgu combos? everytime you had confirm you went for a crossup and a lot of them were getting blocked. You could have used the ex mgu ex dreads to push the opponents full screen and zone them afterwards.
i have mixed feelings about knee shot cr. short.
its beats srk and some characters reversals but it seems like the knee shots weren’t low enough to put you at the advantage you needed.
its loses to everything with I frames and a decent focus attack can beat it.
i prefer knee shot cl lp because that beats focus lets you have time to confirm to cr. mp or cr. mk.
I hardly ever use c.lk after a knee shot because I can’t get it to combo consistantly enough because of the tiny hit stun of the knee.
Anyways. Ultra setup that will hopefully be useable in Arcade edition.
[media=youtube]74bCrhJskkc[/media]
cr lk does 10 more dmg than cr lp
cl. lp deals 30 dmg too and has less startup. I don’t fully get the reason behind cr.lk right now either but I’m having ideas which i can’t confirm right now.
cr.lk is useful off a blocked jump in. While they are in the blockstun from the jumpin, cr.lp will be autoblocked. They have to block high then low to block jumpin then cr.lk. If they try to mash a move hoping you drop the combo they’ll most likely get hit by cr.lk because they aren’t holding downback while cr.lp would again be autoblocked.
Not sure why else you’d use it since compared to cr.lp it is 1 frame slower, does more pushback, and has less frame advantage. If you have the frame advantage off a knee shot I can see knee shot, cr.lk being a fairly quick high-low series.
Low short is a timing thing as much as anything. In terms of priority pokes you have a 3 (close jab), a 4 (low jab) 3 5s (low short, close fwd, low fwd) and a 7 (low fierce). He has a 6 also (low strong) but it doesn’t have much priority and is hard to use as a CH setup. Because SF4 is “mash throw/crouch tech: the game” being able to vary your timing 1 frame at a time without throwing your own timing off is useful. And obviously once people stop mashing crouch tech, your life will improve dramatically.
I tend to default to low short when I go for empty cross on wakeup because of marvel. Marvel has taught me this: when people are fooled on left vs. right, they tend not to block low. They may mash on whatever reversal they have at their disposal, they may mash crouch tech, they may hold back, but they rarely hold DOWN-BACK. It’s not airtight, some people will default to the new down-back, it’s just one of those general 2-D fighting rules that people tend to default to, kind of like how in poker the majority of people will check their hole cards to see if they have a flush using 1 of their cards, but tend not to when they use both hole cards. Just one of those human things. So when I drop the knee right on top of their body on wakeup, warp behind them and then go low short, it’s just to take advantage of that; it’s too bad he can’t get more off of that on a low cross.
Side note: this is also why knee for anti air, walk underneath low short works so well. You aren’t tricking them on the left-right as much as you are just taking advantage of the fact that people just tend not to block low there; this is why blocked anti-air Psylocke, dash under, slide with Magneto is pretty much guaranteed. Even though Dee Jay’s version of this happens at 1/4 speed, the same principle applies.
Also I will occasionally use low short as a distance poke. It acts slightly better poke vs. poke than low forward and is somewhat safer.
JCool813:
I only zone certain Vegas. My match vs. Tatsu from the last Paradise Hills showdown (which is still not online for some reason) where I beat him 2-0 I zoned him successfully, but I tend not to do this vs. Chris King. For one, Chris King is better than Tatsu. For another he tends to be slightly more aggressive and reacts to fireballs better. I think zoning Vega in general is a mistake theory wise. As long as he has his claw, he can keep you out of any kind of damage dealing range and he can dominate the match simply by walking backwards and occasionally hitting a button. In order to beat his low strong or to jump, you have to guess entirely too much. I feel like if you can stay in at least until you have a large lead, you’re better served doing that and keeping pressure on. Worst case scenario while you keep pressure on, he blocks frequently and you can take his claw making it easier for you to deal with low strong.
I made a point of NOT doing mgu combos vs. Cammy because I wanted to keep the match as close to full screen as possible. I lost rounds in this when I was pinned down in one spot and gained damage once I proved to him that he can’t DP my set jumps. The “proving/training” phase of the match involves doing the perfect crossup which will always land you behind her at +1 (give or take 1-2 in either direction). If I push her towards the corner too much, this will involve me jumping into the corner which I didn’t want to do until I had stopped the DPs for good.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Chris King > Tatsu o_O
don’t tell bebop that lol
interesting. might have to try you’re way in the cammy fight to see how i do.
I really do think Chris is better than Tatsu at this point. He’s been winning a lot of local events, he beat Mike Ross at SCR (and Vega vs. Honda is stupid), he’s really leveled his game up a lot. It could be recall bias simply because I play with Chris a LOT more than I play with Tatsu, but I believe it.
As far as the Cammy fight goes, it really depends on your preference and who you play against. The guy I was playing in the video (Steinmania/Mitchell) is the guy responsible for all those “I ultra’d your fireball, deal with it” avatars that were floating around and his reactions are really good. His ultra-ing my backdash on reaction is probably why he won the match in the first place. So I don’t have supreme confidence in zoning him given how fast his reactions are, I felt like I had a better chance just picking at him. Your mileage may vary. If you do decide to zone, burning meter as you gain it is good strategy.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
@Viscant, I watched that Vega match. really good stuff. Nice spacing, well played. I saw you drop some combos, and go for low damage KD combos with full bar, instead of EX MGU combos. Maybe you were playing nervous idk. One instance you were behind in life, and you had hit confirmed a jump in and you could have done EX MGU > upkick perhaps for about 250 or something, but you went for cr. MK which was probably only like 100 dmg. When you are down on life you have to play safer when you have a KD, and they can be random/reckless, so I would have gone for the bigger combo (or dash U2). And in that case it didn’t pay off for you, you had blocked cross up > blockstring > blocked EX MGU. Overall really good stuff dude, I can definitely learn some stuff watching you. You rep DJ good.
I noticed a lot of little things you do, like after a knockdown one time you walked forward like a grab/meaty mixup, but you staggered a tiny bit which might throw off their tech timing and grab them during their tech. It was out of their throw range which is good if they do stand tech on wakeup it would whiff. Good stuff. Also our rushdown looks the same, I do the same stuff lol. I use cr. LK a lot too in mixup situations.
Oh and I watched the cammy match. Good stuff, excellent wakeup pressure. Not going to say much except do crouch techs with cr. :lk::lp::hp:. I didn’t see you do it at all, and you got TKCS’d > combo. It pretty much shuts down instant TKCS pressure, just watch out if they start punishing you for doing it.
good shit. I think you could have won more rounds if you use your meter for high damage combos. On one of those matches you were sitting on super forever. I was like “MGU his ass”. I like the frame traps but those guys crouch tech super late. Maybe a cr. FP after a cr. lp would have stopped that.
Footage of JWong’s Deejay at 8otB.
[media=youtube]KD7yNkcEjd4]YouTube - The Break Weekly #86 - FT3 - [FYC] KDZ VS [EG[/media]
[media=youtube]RRaZIoms0Lo&feature=sub]YouTube - Akimo [DeeJay] vs Ryugagotoko [Cody[/media]
Where in the hell he’s been lol?
And where in the hell is Hatrify?
cr. jab cr. jab cr. forward…
this was kind of really boring. J Wong doesn’t have a dj. He could have been doing the exact same thing with cody’s cr. jab cr. jab cr. strong criminal upper. It looked like it might have been the first time he picked up DJ.
Bleh.
The Akimo vid is better, though getting crossed up 16 times like that in the first round doesn’t do a whole lot for my confidence in the other player.
did not like his deejay. if he plays him as much as he does cammy we could see some nice things. He might be saving something for AE.
Yeah it seems pretty much any player who’s just good at the universal concepts of Street fighter can win a few games with Dee Jay by pressing Medium Kick Jab and Throw. Apart from those three buttons Justin whiffed a few standing Heavy Kicks and used a few slides, one of which hit.
Viscant, is there a proper way to time an empty cross up so you can c. lk? I tried in Training mode and no matter how tight I thought my timing was, I was able to mash throw and catch it.
Also slightly off topic, what do you guys typically do when you put somebody in the floaty reset state and you land within throw range. Is mashing throw the only option? It seems its either a throw or be thrown type of situation.
With empty crossup you have to land 3 frames before they wakeup to hit with cr.lk and not get thrown. The startup on cr.lk is longer than throw, so it has to be at least 3 frames into it’s startup when they hit throw or you will get thrown.