WHA… So your the one who thinks that the reason people dont use this ultra is because the command input is “too difficult”!!
How about they make it useful, like not bieng able to jump out of it on reaction?
lol, i dont think its too “difficult” an input. i think that the input doesn’t take well to switching side and that 2x hcb is pretty strict input in terms of sf4 (how ever much of a laugh that may give you). There’s a lot more leniency in a 360 or a 720 in terms of clockwise/counter clockwise, and side switching. They’re not going to make any of these new grab ultra’s 1+0, it’s not going to happen. It’d be too much, look at Hakan, easily the grappler with the most mobility, half screen tick throws (sick). the damage buff further indicates that they’re not going to change the frame data but capcom might prove me wrong.
Boxer with 1+0 U2 would be Broken. Just give us command grab 
If Balrog isn’t dash punching from max range or meaty then you should always be punishing him with dp or w/e.
i have a couple of questions involving B-rog
Questions:
On his sweep how many frames does it takes for his opp. to recover?
the same goes for dash sweep??
and Headbutt???
Also his f. grab and b. grab???
and can someone please briefly explain meaty attacks
also if you time standing jap beats izuna drops too
Read the article in the link for meaties.
Roughly 54 frames to wakeup after cr.hk,
Roughly 45 frames after dash low
Roughly 80f after fwd throw
Roughly 58f after bwd throw
Roughly 50f after teched headbutt knockdown
Sorry for the delay, just been busy at work.
Here are some of the notes that I’ve gathered from fighting Chris King’s Vega.
The main sources of damage that Vega can dish out are from his phenomenal kara throw and from his excellent mid range pokes due to high priority with the claw.
You MUST learn how to read the distances he can kara grab from and be able to tech it. His quick walk speed makes this tool very useful for him. The main method of setting up his throw game is the Vega will try and make you afraid of pressing buttons.
Defense:
I’m sure you know by now but he has extremely good pokes. So let’s start with some of the basic pokes.
His c.mk and c.mp are extremely fast, have great priority, and good range. You are going to have to
play around with walking in and out of these ranges to hit him with a s.hk or c.hk. When you are close up, Vega might try and jab you through your block strings, if you notice the Vega attempting this, you need to keep the block strings tight, otherwise you might eat c.lp times whatever into EX FBA. Watch out for his two hit roundhouse as that will break focus and beat your ex punches. He’ll try to zone you out with fierce, roundhouse.
I’ve found that at good ranges, even anti airing Vega is kind of difficult, His j.hp has good priority and a good downward angle so if you react too slowly from crouch position with a fierce, you’ll get stuffed or trade. S.mp here might be a better option since it’s faster and lets you be much more mobile. Sometimes I’d just opt for a late jab headbutt to beat his jump in, usually you beat it clean but if you happen to trade, ultra will put him in the corner. When he does a jump in, off the wall it’s pretty quick so you need to react fast. Don’t forget the awesome jump back fierce!
Cosmic heel if correctly spaced is pretty safe, however if they do it deep on you, you can punish it with jab. If it’s spaced correctly watch for kara grab and other stuff like that.
If your Vega likes to wall dive, you need to know how to stop this. I’ve found that j.mp works sometime but if they are keen on doing the throw immediately it might lose. Late headbutts are good for this, if you wait for them to get right over you and use the invincibility to beat it. Other options include an extremely late cs.HP. It’s weird but this moves beats this crap for some reason. Don’t forget focus into punish or focus dash to escape some of the off the wall slashes.
If the Vega does corpse hop tricks, he will be trying to fish for a missed block or counter hit opportunity. Learn to read and react to the corpse hop. He’ll use the double slash cs.hp into a big combo so beware. If they do a low into ex FBA, don’t worry about that too much since he’s pretty much guessing as there’s no way to really hit confirm that.
Common frame traps include the cs.hp for huge damage. Bust most of the time it’s jabs and shorts to set up the deadly kara grab.
His rolling move, you can jab him out of it. If you find your reactions to be on point, go for the sweep. Don’t jump because it will catch you easily.
If you see a super, I find that late ex headbutt beats that clean. Don’t jump because you will die.
Ultra 1, can cross you up after ex FBA setups so beware. Ultra 2 is pretty slow now and now it’s hard to anti air but it might be used to react to dash punches.
Stupid things you might need to watch out. After you block a jump in from Vega, they might do two c.lp. This puts Vega in a good position to cross Balrog up. It’s dumb I know but you might want to training mode to see. Vega (j.hp c.lp c.lp, jump forward hp). If you see cs.hp, chances are they want to set you for cs.mp. It looks just like the two hit version, except it’s one. Tech after you get hit by that. Of course there’s the classic roll fadc tricks so be on your toes for that. Cross up ex FBA is also possible after untechable knockdowns as well.
Offense:
I suppose you must take advantage of Vega’s weak defense and escape options and really punish him when you get a chance. I think the c.lp OS sweep is a must for this matchup. Walk and be patient and get him to the corner. Scarlet Terror is a horrible reversal so dont expect too many of those, but if you see one, make him pay.
I use a lot of frame traps to beat Vega’s defense. You can get a lot of counter hit setups into sweep. Use cs.mp, cs.hk, c.mk, c.lp and whatever else you like. Vega might be neutral jumping a lot to bait your dash punch. You can either ignore it and walk towards him, or you can space it so that you can hit him on the way down, or use the short upper to catch him in the air.
This match you need to be extremely patient but once you get your opportunity you hit him hard. His jump is fast so don’t whiff slow normals in front of him.
Sweep is a great tool however Vega can punish it with c.mp so that kind of sucks. You might want to see if Vega is able to do that consistently.
Otherwise this is a pretty standard Rog offense. Utilize the strong pokes, the good pressure and frame traps, throw game, and be a tank. Don’t let him get anything started.
Other thoughts:
Meter use in this match up for me tends to favor ex punches to use the armor to get close and hit him when he pokes with a normal. Ex punches are also good escapes. Ex headbutt for that surprise factor as well to keep them honest. Super is useful for focus breaking but I find the ex armor punches too valuable.
If you have a habit of reading charge times and what not, Vega charges really quickly so don’t get thrown off by how he can do some moves at inexplicable times.
I’d like to stress patience, if you toss out a dash punch you might be eating a neutral jump combo, into a setup!
Hope this helps somewhat, it’s a lot to read and may be formatted poorly. Sorry! But if you have any questions about certain things, hopefully I can answer or pick Chris King’s brain.
Excellent post, would be nice to know a setup where ex.fba or u1 crosses up. I’ve been looking for those since Vanilla.
[LIST]
[]cl.hp hits on both sides, i think it’s because the hurtbox gets deleted during active frames around hit head and mid-chest area
[]don’t forget corpse hop into instant OH j.hp
[]Rolling attack can also be hit with ex.ru which will force stand (don’t do it if he does it as a reversal since it’ll break armor)
[]cr.lp O/S sweep only works against his backdash and not his flips. Personally I think it’s extremely difficult to O/S him successfully on his wakeup unless he’s in the corner because of the KKK or PPP flip (although this is probably one of Vega’s least used specials on wakeup). I found that safe jump O/S fwd dash works pretty well to keep the pressure on and let you jab/throw/sweep as necessary
[*]Vega’s charge times are really different, 42f for Scarlett Terror or sky high claw, 60f for rolling crystal flash http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/vega-claw-frame-data-street-fighter-4/
[/LIST]
That cl.HP does have some weird moments. It beats oni Demon Slash, Yuns’ shoulder and Yuns’ Lunge Punch.
Sometimes it feels like the damn move has some invencibility frames. Anyone has the hitbox image for this move?
I’ll ask today for the exact setups for the crossup ex.FBA and U1. Although the problem is once you know about this and you’ve seen it done, it’s now a mindgame. If the Vega messes up the execution on the setup, the U1 hits normal and then you die 
hitbox picture doesn’t really explain it IMO, but i will have to test out using it against Yun. It’s definitely the boxes placement away from the hurtbox, notice the space between the yellow box with blue outline and the red box.
lol, ya, but it all depends, i’ve been researching alot of these setups for ambiguous crossups and unblockables etc. and they’re extremely specific. It’s almost 100% true that Akuma had the best unblockable cross-up in the corner, since it was almost 100% unblockable (although you could probably just frame block it) but that was your only option. Some characters unblockable setups can be backdashed, crouched (offensive/defensive), jumped out of, mashed out of, or invincible special’d. So knowing the setup and testing it really makes a difference.
I remember when I did a random U1 in a Vega mirror and he was just stand blocking and it crossed up, it looks so sick lol.
Cl.HP beats cross-ups too if timed correctly, but it’s not very reliable.
Why did you said it hits both sides?
Im not trying to start a fight, believe me.
But please explain to me how that would be broken.
U2 has little damage and big stun but can not be combo’d.
So… you either choose to have a big time Ultra in U1 or go getto and use U2 to thwart any wakeup pressure.
It isnt like Gief where a succesful U1 does a shit ton of damage, Balrogs U2 would only be used as anti wakeup.
Please explain.
well…it hits on both sides. Record a shoto doing j.mk from neutral, and press st.hp at the last moment before impact, and you’ll see that it’ll trade, both when it hits as a cross up or it hits in front. It literally hits on both sides when you time it right.
Broken in the sense that anyone with a 1+0 grab isn’t very mobile, in terms of walk speed, attacks and dashes. Balrog by comparison is extremely mobile. I think balrog would have a guaranteed U2 every match for that very reason. Balrog would be too much of a threat up close with U2, they’d HAVE to jump preemptively and balrog could just j.hp every time to meet them in the air. With Gief he cant do that, U2 is the only answer gief has to people who jump back to avoid a command grab. His other options are there, but no-where near as reliable IMO. It would generally take Balrog out of his character archetype and make him something he’s not.
Like Abel with his U2 in super, it gave him the ability to control a space he could never control and it was considered too good, before people figured out how to beat it. It’s not the same, but its similar.
What 3nigmat1c said. Just imagine the setups you will have with FADC Dash Punches, Dash Uppers on people crouching, tick throws with our fantastic c.lp, cl.hk FADC U2, etc…
Even though U2 has low damage the scary factor it would induce would be just too good for someone with such mobility and good normals.
U2 only needed more damage (stun is irrelevant because it’s not that hard not to get hit by Boxer if you really try) and better range so that you can punish some unsafe moves. This will make it useful and not OP and it will change a lot of MU at least once you have it charged. Just removing some chip options your opp has is huge for Boxer. 2xQCF wouldn’t hurt too 
Interesting as I have never looked at it from an offensive standpoint.
Always looked at it from a defensive position.
Point well taken.
Cross up FBA: After EX-FBA hits --> Izuna Grab. Do a HK Scarlet Terror as soon as you can, then EX FBA. It should cross up. You’ll have to re-charge like 50 times during this entire process
Cross up U1: After forward throw, just DO IT
^ Those are the setups.
i dont know about the f. grab being 80 frames its about 60
but i know the back throw isnt 58 its actually less than that cause if you do a m. HB or a F. HB then wake forward a bit then do crouching lp it would hit as a meaty
all of them are rough guesses from proven 5f safe jumps and 2nd active frame meaty cr.lp setups. I say the back throw is somewhere near sixty because a five frame safe jump is bwd.throw, fwd.dash j.hp so thats about 18f (dash) + 40f (jump)
thanks!