Hm, any tips on Balrog vs Vega?
what is giving you issues?
Honestly his pokes at mid range. They recover to fast for me to whiff punish and his down fwd mk and hk are beyond annoying. By frame data I should be able to punish but I can’t get it and it’s hard to turtle all game unless I commit to turtling.
Also can someone explain to me his frame traps on jump in and how to do his safe jump after jab sweep and throws?
@Chobo, check out the game mechanics post (I think it’s #7) on the front page. There’s a section about safe jumps and it should have a list of 5f safe jumps off of fwd.throw, bwd.throw and sweep. There’s also a list in the option-selects thread as well.
The vega matchup is hard, period. There’s nothing wrong with being patient in the matchup. If you’re playing a vega who doesn’t know how to deal with pressure, then all you’ve got to do is pressure him and you’ll win the match, period. Vega’s only safe answer to pressure is blocking and teching throws. Vega wins the poking war mid-screen, so I wouldn’t attempt to try to “out-poke” vega. I think the most important thing in this matchup is patience, and maintaining your life lead. If Vega wins, it’s generally because you did something silly like allowing him to block a sweep or not being able to thwart his izuna drops. Trades are in your favor, and don’t be afraid to turtle it out. Again, this is assuming you’re playing a good Vega and not a bad one.
A bad vega is generally one who spams izuna drop from neutral, or gets up close and pokes either up close or at the beginning of what you’d call mid-range (e.g. he’s attacking will within the claw or foot rather than just the tip). Also found out this weekend that Vega can space a meaty cr.mk on balrog’s wakeup so you can’t beat it with ex.dashes (all I believe). Cody can do something similar with j.lp . weird.
Thanks. So what happened to TAP to escape izuna? I miss those. Also I have a hard time punishing his backflips and unique normals.
j.mp and TAP are still viable, but not for a properly done izuna drop (or super). Both can lose to a Vega who knows how to izuna drop properly. both TAP and j.mp aren’t throw invincible while headbutt is. Since vega can control his arc, he can either delay the horizontal motion to go over your j.mp OR in the case of TAP, just go to where you are horizontally to grab you.
If you go into training mode and record vega doing an izuna drop to standing Balrog from where they start, then playback and as balrog attempt to TAP out of it (not moving forward or backward), he will grab you, TAP only has strike/projectile invincibility, and that’s just for the first ten frames are so (i think it’s less, but i’m not certain).
late hp.hb hasn’t failed me yet against either of vega’s Izuna drop; especially those on wakeup. and it HAS to be late so vega’s claws don’t clip your feet as you’re getting away.
Thanks for the info. Haha there aren’t many Vega players out there so the match up caught me off guard =P
Some notes on Rog v Evil Ryu @ Teh Ebils:
E. Ryu is a rushdown character in the extreme, in a similar vein to Akuma.
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Dive-kicks - AA that shit! Low fierce or HB the nuts outta that move
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Pressure strings - They love their low strong 2X plasma FADC overhead DP-nonesense. This can be punished by ex-ing your way thru most of their moves. If you show him you WILL block the ENTIRE sequence, he will usually end the series with plasma rather than a DP. Since its also an FADC sequence, the chance of him doing an EX move throughout will be low, so your EX’s will win out, best done AFTER his FADC.
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If he starts throwing projectiles, get within HALF a screen of him with walk/block/walk/block, then TAP him. Mix this up with neutral jumps and EX rushes. His HP is lower than average, so your every successful hit will hurt him.
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Punish back-teleports and dash-backs with your own dash-straights/supers. Save ultras for HB combos, or, like what I do, to punish whiff DPs and reactions to plasma/focus attack games.
Remember, he has less life than you. Most trades will be favourable towards Rog, and eventually, he’ll stop trying to win an attrition war.
Good luck!!
HI Chobo, I play against a really good Vega very frequently and have learned a lot about the matchup. When I have some free time after work, I’ll write some tips and info that I’ve gathered through the games.
Thanks TSwizzle. Hm, I just recently started implementing jab to medium link and I have to say it does wonders on damage, scaling and comboability. Do any Balrog users use U2? Or should it continue to be neglected?
I use U2 sometimes, but it should remain neglected imo. (once they tekl us what this new “simplified” command input is, it may be more useful), heres hoping for a 360.
Yo balrog! might want to update that mu for dudley cause we got that 3 frame jet upper, smash us from the wrong range now balrog!
Jab still Wins in that matchup
the important question we should be asking is…is it invincible lol, but i’m more worried about a blocked lp.ds than a blocked smash :[
well dudleys jet upper has more starting range then ryu srk. So yeah, your lp.ds will be getting DP’d. THE ONLY move that will be safe is a turn punch level 1. we can Jet upper ALL of your dash punches now with HP jet upper/MP jet upper.
MP jet upper covers a ton of range and could hit you out with a perfectly spaced smash. If you guys wake up EX dash anything your getting DP’D bad.
Now the MU will be all about turtling the hell outta each other. No it’s not invincible but EX jet upper might become 3 frame jet upper not sure but hope so lol. Right now HP jet upper is our only 3 frame jet upper…
HP jet upper=3 frames
EX jet upper=4 frames
MP/LP jet upper=5 frames
MP jet upper covers a good amount of horizontal range.
LP Jet upper works better as an anti air juggling move then before.
I think when this is all said and done, dudley might actually beat balrog now cause of our NEW cr.mk being faster= viable option select back dash now.
We can basically hit you with chip dmg but you guys can’t hit us with chip dmg anymore but risky turn punch that can be CH with St.hk. Ouch, the new SSB lowered hurt box not getting smacked by cr.tech and does a ton of chip plus the fact you guys will no longer keep chipping us out unless you want to take a knock down +160-180 dmg on return
ST.HK counter +7 will definitely put fear into mashing jab.
You guys can no longer go crazy now with block pressure cause of our new DP’s. The only thing we will worry about now is timed moves from balrog anticipating our punches and jab grab. That’s it lol
also our ssb having a smaller lowered hurt box means you guys might have to do standing jabs instead to beat it.
i’ve got mixed feelings about the matchup, we’ll see when 2012 comes out. I do think matches where the opp has an offensive answer to blocked lp.ds are difficult to say the least (*cough Cody), but definitely not un winnable.
Did SSB get any invincibility? i remember being able to throw it.
I’ll be sure to look for your comments in this MU in a few months when all the dust has settled.
naw you good with ssb you can still grab us on the way back so if you know we’ll SSB you could pull some Option select to stop it if you got the timing down.
The only reason I comment on the balrog forms is because my brother MAINS balrog and I have to deal with him almost everyday for warm ups lol.