I just played some matches in endless just focussing on the walkforward oga, and it works beautifully. I even got a message from a opponent saying how the hell he is supposed to block that! Though it is a very tricky technique at first, once you get used to it you you can make every (forward) throw lethal if you also have an ultra or super.
Considering the mantis U1 leaves you at pretty much the same distance as forward throw, that will probably work on the majority of the cast aswell.
i am testing this shit out alphabetically now. the characters i dont have yet are
abel, blanka, dan, deejay, honda, ibuki, makoto
seth and sagat can be crossed up by walk foward mk oga. i think they were in the vid, but im not sure
EDIT: fail test
double edit: im a retard
cr.rh whiff LK Oga on Honda never seemed to work for me.
Deejay is weird as always, but rh whiff works constantly. I seem to have a hard time hitting claw with the setup.
try giving honda a slight walk foward after the rh whiff. i dont remember if i walked or not, but i know i got it to hit him post whiff
i havent tried claw myself, but it was in hoigeks video
Thanks, I’ll work on it. Claw always seems to block it forward, idk why, but in the video he did say it’s not practical. Maybe timing issue?
Tried to substitute Mantis U1 in place of forward throw. Here are the setups I got:
Mantis U1 -> walk forward -> MK Oga works on:
Ryu
Ken
Gouken
Akuma
Dan
Juri
C.Viper
Dictator
Cammy
Guy
El Fuerte
Boxer
Adon
Mantis U1 -> walk backward -> LK Oga works on:
Ryu
Ken
Dudley
Gouken
Akuma
Dan
Sakura
Juri
Chun-Li
C.Viper
Dictator
Cammy
Cody
Guy
Hakan
Guile
Zangief
Rufus
El Fuerte
Boxer
Fei Long
Adon
Rose
Others:
Ibuki - Mantis U1 -> LK Oga (do not walk, which means do not have any forward or backward directional input in your input list. Harder than it sounds)
Makoto - Mantis U1 -> LK Oga (don’t walk)
Seth - Mantis U1 -> walk backward -> MK Oga
Sagat - Mantis U1 -> walk backward -> MK Oga
Deejay - Mantis U1 -> walk backward -> MK Oga
Blanka - Mantis U1 -> walk forward -> LK Oga
T.Hawk - Mantis U1 -> walk backward -> MK Oga
IDK:
Honda
Gen
Dhalsim
Abel
Claw
I wonder if I forgot anyone.
As you can see, the 2nd setup (walk backward -> LK Oga) works on every cast whom the 1st setup works + several extra characters, so while it is harder to do, it’s more beneficial. There are some wtf moments when you try the 2nd setup VS Fuerte (you WILL cross him up, but land in front).
dammit. im an idiot sometimes. while testing i didnt try to block it myself. i set the dummy to no block, and if it gave the crossup hit, i moved on. turns out if you try to block it with a recorded gen, you dont get the crossup. you just block it and gen is in a very vulnerable position
disregard what i said in my previous post. i’ll have to re test those characters
Tried testing those, and here are the results I came up with:
Abel is hard as shit with any setup
With Blanka, Ibuki, and Makoto the setup Hoigek showed in his video works: forward grab -> cr.rh whiff -> LK Oga
Dan works like any shoto, but you might have to walk forward a bit more than them.
Deejay works like in Hoigek’s video: forward grab -> cr.rh whiff -> MK Oga. You said that as well.
Screw Honda. forward grab -> cr.rh whiff -> walk back -> LK Oga is possible, but walk back needs to be very slight (I think 4~5f or so). You’ll whiff if you hold back longer than that, and you’ll get punished as hell if you don’t.
back grab -> MK Oga works on Blanka and Makoto. back grab -> walk back -> MK Oga works on Ibuki.
Everyone listen to this guy’s methodology!! This really helped! I borrowed these tips and tried it out. I end up usually pushing my lk input too late and do the jump lk…
This is by far one of the more consistent set ups for the cross up. Whoever discovered the walk forward trick needs to be nominated for a nobel prize. I’m adding it to what i’m finding are the other two more reliable cross up set ups:
Crane stand lp, cr lk, mantis sweep - > Cross up oga. I hate using crane lp, but this is still a useful punish for whiffed DPs etc. I don’t really try to do it after a jump in because there is always a safer…and more damage option rather than going to crane lp, cr lk, sweep. Its also useful if you need that BIG come back and have managed to get off a crumple. Follow up and hope you can get the cross up oga - ultra and you’re back in the game.
Back throw (opponent in corner) -> Cross up oga.
I tend to favour lower difficulty and/or risk in the set up phase since the cross up oga itself has its own risks. What are other people’s fave set ups?
Adon: forward throw, KKK c.mk, KKK j.hp
c.hk: KKK j.mk
Hahaha. If you forward throw Juri, double dash, and use j.hp Option Select Mantis U1, it catches ex spinny thing and backdash. If she doesn’t block the safe jump, she gets whacked with Mantis U1. Works for mp Mantis super, too
EDIT: And chun-li (unless she has super)…fuck now I gotta make a list of every safe jump OS for everyone
good shit man
thanks. The list is finished. I’m going to put it in the option-select thread
For those who don’t get this, after a forward throw you can dash forward twice and neutral jump in crane or mantis. Some characters get hit by both setups, some get hit by one, and some get hit by none. The other setup involves a forward throw, a crane normal for timing (KKK s.hk, KKK c.hk, and KKK c.mk in one case), and then a diagonal jump into them with PPP or KKK j.hp or j.mk (in case you go over them). These jumps will be safe; reversals cannot hit Gen. Knowing this, I tried to discover setups that beat all or almost all of their reversal options. In the case of Juri or Chun-li (without super), for example, you should always go for the safe jump after a forward throw and try to option-select your super/ultra. Worst-case they block the safe jump and you save your meter and continue pressuring them while they’re in blockstun. Best-case they mash out a backdash or reversal and you clobber them.
Some interesting notes:
Balrog : OS CRANE U1 beats backdash (corner only) and all headbutts
Chun-li: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats ex sbk and backdash. If she has super you cannot safe jump her
C. Viper: OS LP/MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats everything except ex burn kick. OS HK SUPER AND OS CRANE U1 IN CORNER catch everything except ex seismo’s (if U1 out of corner will not catch backdashes)
Honda: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats backdashes and all headbutts. Misses buttslams. OS CRANE U1 in corner beats headbutts, backdash, and ex buttslam
Hakan: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beat ex oil slide and backdash. He can beat safe jumps with U2 and ex command grab
Juri: OS MP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats everything she has
Makoto: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beat ex oroshi and backdash. If she has ex meter, she cannot be safe jumped however (ex throw). However, you’ll never get to blow super or ultra in this case so if you’re safe-jumping her when she has meter, you’d might as well try the OS and see if she doesn’t throw you first
Rose: OS LP SUPER beats ex soul spiral, ex soul throw, and backdash. If she has Ultra2 you cannot safe jump her
Rufus: OS CRANE U1 beats backdash and ex messiah. doesn’t catch ex snakestrike, but who wakes up with that anyway?
Sakura: OS LP SUPER AND OS MANTIS U1 beats backdash and ex uppercut (you can’t safe jump with forward throw double dash forward neutral PPP j.hp and land this OS because her ex shoryuken will go through you…must forward throw then KKK s.hk PPP j.hp/mk). If she’s in corner then OS CRANE U1 beats ex uppercut and backdash as well
more info can be found here http://shoryuken.com/f274/gen-option-selects-219512/#post9912132
If you don’t mind I will also put this in the OP for the sake of compiling as much viable information as possible.
I never used option selects with ultra so this will be a pretty stupid question, but how exactly does the ultra not come out? I mean am I supposed to do qcfx2 + j.hp in the air in order to buffer the ultra, and it will not come out unless the do something otherwise Gen just does j.hp? Interesting stuff. I’m very uniformed about option selects in general to be honest, should probably look into it when I have time.
I don’t mind at all. I hope people find this useful
The easiest way to do these is to jump, qcf+hp, then qcf+p or ppp before you land. If the j.hp misses, you just did 2xqcf+ppp and will land and do your ultra in a couple frames. If they get hit by or block the j.hp, Gen stays in the air long enough for the Ultra/super not to come out. To more easily-conceptualize the timing required, pretend you’re doing a cancel combo j.hp xx Ultra
The OS works because you are doing the ultra or special or whatever during the hitting animation of the jump in. If the opp sits there and blocks you hit them causing block stun and the ultra cant come out because of the way the game works. If they move the OS comes out automatically. My advise if your just learning them is. Forward throw, step forward mantis jump MK OS super or ultra. Record that for your dummy. Then as the other char try back dashing on wake up. You will know it works because if you block the jump in he will just sit there. If you BD ultra should come out and catch you. Or if you do any other wake up option really. If you do the ultra after the jump in even on block you did the input for the ultra too late or the jump in was not spaced properly. The jump in has to be meaty.
Reset shenanigans
After hitting an Oga you can do a reset (s.lp) and dash under your opponents as we all know. Some of you might know I am a huge fan of doing this when the oppertunity arises (and I don’t have super/ultra, or an immidiate followup will not kill them). The reset crossunder is a pretty big shenanigans of itself, but the things you can do after it are pretty sweet. Here is a list of things I usually do after the reset cross-under:
-Throw your opponent will most likely block as he is expecting a combo. doing the effort for a cross-under only to throw is not logical thus not expected usually.
-Throw into cross-up Oga The recently discovered 'walkforward into cross-up oga’ is an excellent follow-up after the throw, which will lead to yet another Oga oppertunity and solid damage.
-c.lk (s) c.lp Throw Best used when your opponent is used to you throwing etc. doesn’t have to c.lk c.lp can be anything really.
-s.mp s.mk hands The only and only classic, not much to say about it. If it hits you get some decent damage and it’s safe on block anyway. If you have super you know what to do.
-crane s.mp (overhead Very risky, but a great mix-up tool nontheless. I rarely use it so when I do decide to use it they don’t expect it, especially after a crossunder.
-** c.lk (s) c.lp s.mp lk gekiro** another BnB combo, can be easily hitconfirmed into, so you can always go for the throw still when you noticed your opponent blocks the initial c.lk c.lp.
-Block That’s right, if your opponent is a masher or you just feel that it’s coming, block that shit and punish.
Other reset shenanigans
Now I know resets are not everyone’s cup of tea, but I think they give Gen some extra strength and if they work it’ll deal some good damage. Obviously it will also depend on who you are fighting, if someone mashes going for the reset is not very wise unless you are ready to crossunder and simply block his reversal. If anyone has more ideas on this please say so, this is what I usually do in regards to resets.
Well this is a “dumb” reset but it works if you use it sparingly I find. If I land a level 2 focus. Occasionally I will pause for a sec like I fucked up after the dash in to let the opp fall, whiff a sLP then after their knees hit the ground I will cLK dash under into whatever depending on the situation. But anyone with a decent forward dash can do this for free anyway Abel, Cody ect.
The only Gen reset I go for is if I land Crane jHK *2 in an air to air situation. If I dont have super or ultra I will usually land, take a small step forward, hit them with Mantis sMP buffer stance chance and then jMK to make them guess on which side to block as soon as they land. I am having a hard enough time getting the cross up oga to work after a forward throw on some of the cast so I usually dont bother trying to reset again and go for best damage.
this is a great reset option. I like using it once in a while. Especially in races to ten, or best out of 3.
Crane s.HKx2, dash back, mantis sweep.
What game are you playing?
You cant do anything after Crane j.HK except super or ultra!
Standing mp wont hit!
Something that works surprisingly well:
After mantis super or Oga > crane s.hk (2 hits for the reset) > Lp (mp) roll
They usually don’t expect it so if it hits you get extra damage, if they block it (particularly the lp version) atleast you’ll get some chip damage and you’re close to them immidiately. I started doing this after mantis super just to mix it up, because followups like gekiro do shit damage anyway if I don’t have an ultra. If you do Gekiro I wouldn’t do it personally, I’d go for solid damage followups.
Another variation on this is:
mantis super > crane s.hk(2 hits) > crane s.mp (overhead)
This forces them to block high immidiately, hard to react to and once again, comes as a surprise. As with anything Gen has, use sparingly and carefully.