It was a combination of a bunch of things. I don’t have much practice vs his rog play style. When him and I play at the local meets which is not much lately, he plays different characters. Like vega, dee jay and seth. I practised with two other solid rogs but they are different in play style. I mind fucked myself and in our first match when he jumped i did mantis s.HP way too early cuz I was too excited to AA him. I jumped too much cuz I felt since he was getting in I could. What’s funny is he’d AA my jump ins and not when Rhyllis jumped. It was messed up. I really really didn’t want to play him, and once we got playing in losers and it was looking like the same thing, I started just going for broke. Started doing unsafe Crane c.HP looking for CH. I just wasn’t there that match. He took advantage and pressured me into the corner over and over and I just couldn’t handle it. He would space his dash punches so they were all safe on block or just out of reach cuz of minimal active frames hitting me. He always did light versions and they came out too fast to Gekiro kick them. I was even trying to c.MK, Hands them. But they would stuff my c.MK. I’m hoping to learn from how Rhyllis played him and even though it’s not my style, it worked. So I’m going to take Bruce Lee’s advice and my own where I’m not going to have boundaries and be more open to different things even if they aren’t always the way. O well next time.
I’m trying to build a tournament Gen, but it’s hard because of my location. I kinda just want to play casually but I want to play at these events and it’s hard to do so when you play gen casually. They are having them more often now, so I think I’m going to step up my game as I’ve always mentioned. I think because this was the first real tournament that I played at for Fighting Games, I was super nervous. And I picked up on that and got mind fucked cuz I’ve played infront of 7,000 people at national tournaments but I think because it was all on me (even though there are clutch situations in Counter-Strike) it got to me. and it’s been a long ass time since I’ve really had that much pressure all on just me.
It was a learning experience and I’m glad I got over that hump and now just want to look forward.
Well, I get rocked by Rubecks Gen…often, but my rog is questionable lol and I kill myself sometimes, but as far as his dash punches, here’s some info that might be helpful to everyone:
[LIST]
[]dash punches track to a certain extent (but they have variable startup), so for rog to “space” dash punches really well, he needs to move into the initial spacing, and then throw the dash punch, so putting him in the corner or stepping into his mid-range make it hard for him to space them perfectly.
[]All non-ex dash punches are at least -3 on block, you should be able to [m]st.lp if in range or reversal hp/ex.hands on block (this is my guessing, but if ryu can DP/super badly spaced ones and Cody can cr.lk them on block, Gen should be able to st.lp, st.mp into TC xx gekiro or something.
[][M]st.lk can stuff some non-ex dash punches, [m]cr.hp/hk can beat TAP and high dashes (straight and upper) w/o much issue, you can probably st.lk xx gekiro to beat dashes.
[]non-ex Dash low is like gens [C]cr.lk on block with more push back.
[]all ex.dashes from neutral can be thrown on reaction, they’re usually really safe on block though
[]ex.dashes can beat gen’s safe jumps if they’re not perfect (hitting with final active frame)
[*]focus attack owns 3/5 of all of Balrog’s dash punches. Once you focus attack to crumple one of the lp.ds he might go for lk.smash which is -5 on block and easy to punish, it’s still a guess, but it’s a staple of Balrog mid-range footsies.
[/LIST]
Some, well all of it, should be well known.
Personally, once I start focusing and baiting out the armor breaking moves, then I start neutral jumping to scare him out of dash punching at all. The idea isn’t even to hit him, it’s to make him scared of doing a dash punch at the wrong time and play regular footsies instead, letting me get much closer. If he doesn’t start walking forward and doesn’t want to throw out unsafe dash punches either, then he’s just backing himself into a corner. I really don’t like c.MK vs random dash straights though; you can’t do it on reaction, and his window to hit you on a bad read is much larger than yours is to hit him.
Also, I’ve never understood why you like s.HP as anti-air against Balrog. I really can’t picture it from the range I normally see Balrogs jump. Are you trying to hit with the end of the animation? Even if that works, you’re doing a whopping 40 damage, which won’t make someone respect your AA. Mantis c.HP works every time if you just aim for his toes, and you can probably react later too.
Whatever you’re doing against Balrog, it obviously isn’t working and you need to try something different. Something that doesn’t involve Gen’s various Crane stance taunt buttons.
Any time I c.HP it gets stuffed, and time I c.HK it gets stuffed unless they are right ontop of me. Gekiro Stuffed unless it’s EX, or psychic HK. I’ve got some ideas on how to change it up, and I’ll take some of these ideas into consideration. It’s not that i get destroyed by rogs, it’s a hard win for me compared to others, but this one is different. I just need to play him more at the local meets to get used to how he plays. Thanks for giving me advice and I will try to incorporate it into my style.
I myself actually Focus quiet a bit to do the same thing. And I actually do NJ to get over them but I might be timing them wrong as they always seem to hit me. I’ll have to play around with that more.
nj eat’s dash straights/smashes/overheads, and lows alive BUT, they lose to rush upper. It’s just like playing against abel, when you make him have to think about what counter to use (since he has a single answer for everything, but not many answers for multiple options), you give yourself more room to breath and either make space, or nullify a part of his gameplan all together.
As far as anti-airing his good buttons: j.hp, j.hk, range is really important. Certain AA’s don’t work at certain ranges and timing, vice versa. I could see [M]cr.hp failing against a j.hk at certain ranges where [M]st.mp or [C]cr.mk would hit clean.
so, dude in the tier thread says abel kills gen in footsies. how do you feel about the match first, and secondly how do you feel about playing him a few games to change his opinion? i want to play him, but he’s out west
A bit sloppy, but that shows there’s actually a very wide range where it can work, from right on top of your head to a good distance out. It only fails if he’s so far away that you’re trying to beat his fist. His hand beats your hand, but your hand beats his toe clean.
I’d actually agree with him. Gen doesn’t have anything remotely as threatening as the step kick, or anything with significantly longer range. Abel’s stance keeps his feet back, so he’s not an easy character to hit with the sweep. It’s almost inevitable that he’ll manage to step kick his way in, and Gen doesn’t have great answers when he does.
Okay. Well I think I’ve been using my old AA thoughts as a continuation. What I mean by that is when I was having AA problems most people said s.HP was better and it worked for me. But I’ve stepped my AA game up and it was solid all tournament other than vs rog. So I’m going to change that and use c.HP more. Thanks.
i swear theres a spot on the screen where either jump fierce or roundhouse will stuff crouch fierce. like closer so that the tip of gens hand is behind rogs legs. id have to pull up training mode to look at it
anyway, you dont think crouch fierce or stand roundhouse stick out like way further than abels step kick
maybe i need to play some better abels, but i usually bully the ones ive played on the ground. i usually only end up losing after a hard KD into the abel vortex
Yeah, I’ve seen that sweet spot work before but I don’t understand it very well. No one’s ever done it consistently enough to scare me, I just aim slightly farther back next time.
The whole problem with playing footsies against Abel is that he’s the only character in the game who doesn’t even need to land a hit to win in footsies. If he fails to whiff punish something, he doesn’t care, he just wants you to block. If you aren’t pressing enough buttons, he’s going to dash in. If you’re pressing too many buttons (especially slow ones,) he might just try to roll in. Seriously, it doesn’t matter who’s landing more pokes, because even if you manage to land 10 c.fierces, he could win multiple times over with a few blocked step kicks.
So I know about his safejump setups from a forward throw (dash x2 j.hp crane and the lp roll j.mk) but I forgot if there was a safejump that doesn’t need a forward throw. Been playing too much 3soe lol.
you can safe jump from sweep too, but you have to time it yourself. personally, i dont trust it unless the character im safe jumping has a reversal of 7 frames or more
you can also back throw and crane j.mk safe jump cross up on certain characters. i forgot the complete list, but ken is the only shoto this dosent work on. his fierce dp will hit you. but gen out ranges the other dps for a hitbox safe jump. the only problem is certain characters dont have to block it at all
then you have the safe jump from a 4 hit lk giekro vs quickrise. if they do immediate quickrise you can safe jump 4 framers. but they can delay quickrise, or just stay on the ground to avoid you
Hey great jobs to both Rhyllis and Messiah for placing 1st and 3rd in that tournament, respectively! Yeah, Rhyllis’s Gen may be a bit unorthodox, but he’s made it work to his preferences and hes successful with it, so big ups to him. Great to see that players are showing some success with Gen, having two gens in top 3, as Warlike said, is really awesome
On another note, recently saw this:
seems that Amiyu is in and will be repping Gen vs (I believe) Noriyasu’s Dhalsim. If anyone knows Japanese there is also a link with a video source and some information. Google translate is terrible.
Noriyasu is a pretty solid Dhalsim… we’ll see on the 26th. In Europe we should be able to watch it (streaming, I hope)… around midday, depending on the EU time zone
Well I have nothing better to do than play SF4 atm since I have no uni or work (fuck…) for this schoolyear so I’ll be watching this live for sure. On a unrelated note, I’m thinking of buying a recording device like that dazzle thing or something, I’m tired of having all this knowledge and talking about Gen stuff all the time yet no one really knows how I play lol. I feel like I’m a really solid Gen tbh.
