yeah, the timing is pretty fickle between whiff, frontside block, and crossup when you factor in the delayed quickrise and different character widths on wake up
some of the characters do seem to have an auto timing tho, so it will at least be useful vs them mid screen
such is gen
It’s really hard. And like you said, it’s timing dependent, both on Gen’s side and the opponent’s side.
Such is the reason that the opponent never looks out for it. At least you can’t get punished on hit lol.
Btw, doesn’t Blanka wake up slower than others? I don’t think I succeeded in safe jumping him after forward throw for example.
the most damaging combo I found was
kkk jHP > ppp sMP > cMP xx hands > FADC > sMP > HP-MK xx Gekiro ….
390 with with LK gekiro, 399 against the dozen of characters who can get the HK gekiro
in fadc combos like that, due to damage scaling, it looks like youre better off not using the target combo before FADCing, just after… well of course if you use the TC twice you get a bit more meter back as well as a bit less damage
other than that, I still like the idea of fadcing if that gives me the round or fadcing hitconfirming a cMP hands for extra damage + knockdown… especially this… i dont mean to be a blind amiyu fanboy, but that actually seems good, and it seemed like he tends to do that as much as possible in his vids
yea, blanka is almost impssible to safejump unless you do a frame perfect whiffed crane cHK after forward throw, but thats not easy
and blanka has damn good reversals on wakeup… i pretty much gave up on any sort meaty jump attacks against that ugly mofo
Of course nothing against his super arts which are absolutely GREAT… but I often get this impression too (including the temporary “empty meter” thing). I think what you said sure makes sense.
Just to add in one other aspect into FADC that has not been recently discussed. The Stun value of FADC. I think this is where the money is in FADC and tactics to achieve stun is possibly one of the important ingredients in Gen play that we often ignore. I myself am currently developing tactics to fully exploit this fact. Hopefully there will be results… (not to sure about that after bumming around with Gen for the last two years… :looney:)
Regards
Gecko
Makes sense there’s a slightly more optimized combo for FADCs off a jump in. I think s.HP to hands would even be a little better for the forced stand.
Can you link to some of these Amiyu videos though? I randomly watched a few on Youtube, and he almost always saves for a super. The few times I saw him use an FADC combo, it looked more like he was trying to conserve some meter so he would have a super later. He certainly doesn’t do moderately scaled FADCs as much as possible, and I didn’t see him do a badly scaled FADC once. He doesn’t use EX moves a lot either, he spends most of his meter on supers.
you’re probably right about the HP>hands forcing stand in that combo unless the jump-in was not very deep and the cMP might help… and i dont remember if chun’s hitbox was sHP>hands “repellent”… but in general I think youre right
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About direct examples of cMP>hands>fadc. I couldnt look back at ALL his matches on youtube, I just pick this vid from Nagoya Street Battles three months ago, this is the very last available tournament footage on youtube, better than XBL casuals. Serious matches, no screwing around.
First important thing to say: Amiyu knows his shit. and most of the times he tends to use his pokes from max range… obviously you cant count those max range cMP>hands as potential FADC choices… I only count those situations where he realizes he’s close enough to get the 4 hyakurenko hits and then confirm into FADC… and that doesn’ happen a lot of times, but when it happens…
In less than 12 minutes and 6 matches… 5 FADC’d cMP>hands out of 8 potential situation, 1 of them when he had a full super charged against zangief
(And 1 additional FADC combo on stunned opponent which I didnt count since it was not out of a cMP poke… a kinda badly scaled FADC combo to end the round).
And in the final match he was totally raped by eita’s akuma otherwise I’m pretty sure he would have used FADC combos again a couple times.
In this tournament video, looking at the FADC usage (and some EX gekiros)… he obviously knows about the awesomeness of gen’s super arts, but saving meter for the supers doesn’t actually look like his goal most of the times.
He can get to the supers and he does it a few times but (excluding the ibuki match) it only depended on presence/absence of FADC occasions he got while building meter.
[media=youtube]z6J5KpVLEY0[/media]
I didnt mean he always wants to go for FADC after a well spaced cMP>hands, but I guess he seriously thinks about that gen’s option when possible… at least until now… we don’t know if he’s going to change his mind in the future.
Anyway, as we know theres not just 1 way of playng gen, this is just one of the possible interpretations.
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I think there are at least like 20/25 amiyu AE matches on youtube, counting those videos like team battle when he does many matches in a row, or “winner stay” sessions, when he does more than one game in the same video
Sorted by upload date… there are not few vids considering AE was out on december in japan
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=amiyu gen&search_type=videos&suggested_categories=20&hl=en&gl=US&search_sort=video_date_uploaded
Crane cr.HK safe jump!? Training time! Thanks.
You can see that he only FADCed when the opponent was standing.
Who the hell was the announcer? He’s probably the ONLY announcer who knew all of the Gen specials’ names.
Btw, just FYI, Chun’s sweep’s japanese name is “Gen Den Ansatsu Shu”, which means “murder kick inherited from Gen” lolz.
SORRY, its crane sHK (+ mantis meaty jumpin), i didnt remember right since I don’t really use it.
But here’s kruldar’s list, where he writes that
He mainly does that on standing opponents as you said… chances of all the 4 hits to connect are exponentially higher… he once tries that on a crouching makoto though (and he drops the link afterwards :L )
That thing about chun’s sweep is pure awesomeness 
Thanks man. Looks like I didn’t scroll down enough 
Yea, idk why. They’re the same link yet link drops pretty easily. I think the main reason is that the 2nd hit whiffs on some characters so your rhythm gets all messed up by several frames. I never FADC on a crouching opponent either when I connect them with hands.
Found another setup for cross-up Teiga off of the Crane nj.hp safe jump. Same as before, tested by holding back. Only works in the corner, not mid-screen. I was lazy so i didn’t test for crouching or invincibles etc.
fwd.throw, 2x fwd.dash, tk.U2
Works on Akuma, Ryu, Ken, Dan, Ibuki, Gen, Oni, Evil Ryu, Dhalsim, and Blanka.
I think i’ll make a video soon, but i’m lazy so maybe not.
Edit: just watch the bit on Akuma, this was while i was testing the cast.
[media=youtube]bTeX2Kq2Dy8[/media]
I hadn’t seen the second half of those matches, when he did the majority of the FADCs. What really stands out to me is where he did them. He wanted the opponent cornered. He was turning small combos into big combos with corner knockdowns, which is basically the ideal situation for FADCing. He did a lot of FADCs, yes, but he had a lot of perfect opportunities that day. I doubt I would have FADCed as much as him personally, but he has a clear strategy there and I see the advantages of it.
I have a lot of respect for Amiyu, he’s pretty much the reason I started playing again. He does FADCs when they’re smart, but things like FADCs off a random jump in aren’t worth it, frankly. I’ve said it before, but that’s turning a big combo with a knockdown into a slightly bigger combo with the same knockdown, which is a dramatically different from small combo FADC big combo.
yeah i think I can agree with this
he sometimes fools his opponents with gen’s crossup, buth then he tends to go to cLK and standard BnB
at those levels, there are not many chances of getting a clean crane jHP to start a combo… they mainly play ground game and thats where cMP>hands comes in handy… otherwise i don’t know what he would do… maybe meterless combos
I thought the f. throw > LP roll > (KKK) j.MK was blockable in both directions, not unblockable?
Nvm, with perfect timing it is unblockable against Yun, so I’m wondering who else does this work on?
I just want to say that Gen is the most fun SF character that I’ve played.
It also works on Yang, for the rest of the cast it basiclaly works as a safejump setup, though obviously it has to be frame perfect and there are other easier ones available.
I feel terrible for not contributing at all and not coming back with results after creeping/lurking for so long.
Keep up the good work, because I can’t. I hope to continue studying and maybe one day it will click.
An incomplete tech that I’m trying to do with Gen. I figured I would need other Gen fellows’ help because I just have a problem with it. Here is what I wrote down in my local thread:
Looks like pre-input focus dash (QCB or QCFx2 really fast and then MP+MK after) might be useful on Gen. I can do QCBx2 -> MP+MK -> LK+MK+HK really fast. If an attack hits in the first 2 frames of focus, he stance changes. If an attack hits in the 3~4th frames tho, he is screwed (still looking about how to do something here). If an attack hits later than that, he dashes automatically. May be especially useful on safe jumps or any wake-up meaties. Only on him, it may actually be more useful than LP+LK+MP+MK back dash after blocking SRK FADC.
I have problem with the 3~4th frame hit part and the application on somewhere else like SRK FADC (now that I think about it, it’s supposed to deal with both grab and another SRK). It’s weak against grabs, but so is LP+LK+MP+MK unless you input the thing later than opponent’s grab. Others may be fine, but I’m open for suggestions.
For more elaborate information, doing QCB or QCFx2 really fast without a shortcut and pressing MP+MK right away gives you automatic focus dash. The reason it is QCB is because to me, that input is faster than pressing back twice cuz I’m so damn weird. I never made it to work with pressing back twice.
Wait does the FA to stance change still work in AE?
I’m confused?
Always did, always will. I don’t think they’ll change it in AE2012 either.
Oh wow I thought they tried to fix that. I guess I need to get the timing down cause it looks useful =D