my point being that most non fireball characters have to be creative when they want to get around fireballs. fighting a shoto is not an auto loss at the character select screen
not every character has a tool to punnish a fireball on reaction alone. in fact most dont. many characters have moves that go thru or around fireballs for EX meter, but using them in most cases is just as much a guess as jumping. playing patiently, and looking for a pattern is the most solid choice.
my advice would be to stay solid as long as possible without taking too much damage until you see your opening. also keep in mind that while you may lack the reaction to jump a fireball and get damage, most players lack the reaction to AA when you jump smartly when they throw a bad fireball. if you make smart timely choices when going around fireballs, you will start to see less fireballs on the screen
2 final side notes. even if you cant use the anti fireball ultra well, just having it ready can make them think twice.
secondly guile zones characters with fireballs. fuck guile
Do you feel that it is viable to use in a match, or is the timing too strict? A variation of something like that was posted awhile ago but it was too hard to do consistently so I’m wondering. It’s a cool trick though.
I’ll add this to the shenanigans topic btw, as it is kind of a shenanigan
After losing by a tiny pixel to a Ken and Rose player 5 times in a row yet again, I finally made my decision to move on. I’m going to play Gouken from now on, and looks like my first stick play & the second local ranbat play will be either with Gouken or Guy… or mayb Dan. Idk, mayb I just wanted a character that has more than 900 HP. I might still use Gen against other fellow scrubs or with my friend for fun, but may not when it comes to serious play.
I’m sorry to hear that. You always contributed alot of to this section. Fuck this shit, everyone seems to abondon Gen in super. Why do you want to stop playing Gen specifically?
In all seriousness, super Gen actually never fit my playstyle in the first place. The only things that kept me going were my love for the old man (no homo) and the fact that playing other characters after touching him (no homo) felt boring to me. But if I could beat a certain Ryu with my first-time dictator by spamming c.LK, LK scissors and s.HK where I couldn’t win with Gen, then it may be time to quit.
I dunno, I main Balrog and when I saw how easy it was for akuma to safe jump demon-flip to palm O/S raging demon and shut down all of balrogs options except block. I wanted to quit, I seriously wanted to stop playing. I played with gen and did crane super out of malice, but you get to a point where you have to figure out the difference between your limitations and your character’s limitations.
I’m not putting you down or anything but you have to decide what your goals are and if you’re willing to do it with another character or stop playing the game altogether (e.g. Yeb). Like with Balrog, to avoid that situation I have to avoid getting hit by two moves: cr.hk and demon flip slide. Problem solved. Hate to see you go, but why waste time with other characters when you’re just gonna come back
But Dictator lk.sk is gdlk, just like his st.hk. :shake:
Uhm, to be honest gen is free as fuck on wake-up so I don’t quite get your example. Knockdown against akuma means fucking death if your in/near the corner. That is why I miss EX oga so goddamn much. He might come back, but playing other characters can be alot of fun after playing with 1 for such a long time. Besides, it give new insights.
It wasn’t so much to say that Gen has a better wake-up than Balrog or something like that. but it was just my experience when I thought about putting a character down because the odds weren’t stacked in my character’s favor.
I feel your pain man. It’s annoying when players have to find some sort of excuse to justify their loss rather than owning up to their own faults. What can you do though, it is what it is.
My two cents:
Gen has his own set of tools, and it just so happens that some of tools pale in comparison to other character’s tools. In my opinion, what makes a Great Gen is having knowledge of the game and the ability to adapt to an opponent.
Even before all of that is taken into consideration, lets take a look at Gen’s moves. I don’t think there’s any argument (at least not from me) that Gen’s normals are solid. Having two separate sets of normals give him versatility that other characters may lack. However, his special moves are a different story.
Aside from Jyasen, his special moves (not counting supers or ultras) require a certain level of skill to properly utilize, as opposed to other characters that can simply throw something out and not have to worry about precise inputs or other variables such as timing or proximity. On top of that, having two styles that have two different styles of utility can make it difficult to always be prepared for any given situation.
That said, I’m not saying that Gen is “bad,” but the initial hurdles to play a consistently “good” Gen are pretty damn high. We all know that Gen is very reliant on his normals, so naturally footsies play a big role in maintaining success. However, footsies is such a broad subject… and it requires knowledge of many aspects of the game. Pile on the fact that his health and stun values are below average, and you have a character that absolutely needs a strong fundamental base to see any positive results.
Either way, Gen is still fun as fuck to play. Even if a lot of people have jumped off the Gen ship since Super was released, I’ll stick with him. Bison is getting stale. I hope I can contribute to the Gen boards in the future.
TL;DR - Me like Gen, but Gen hard. Me play anyway.
yea i still love playing gen although i stop playing him right now since im working on cody. i would use him more if my footsies and spacing was better but right now they are both lacking.
tell you one thing tho at the few ranbats i went to in Oklahoma, for the first few rounds i would just get slam and it look like i would lose, but i found out something im good at.
I found patterns in their gameplay and i was able to adapt and punish them. if they did not change their habits i ended up winning.
i know if i had better footsies and spacing i could do much more with gen, but right now my skills are just not enough for the old man.
oh exceed how was absolute battle. i know a few people from Oklahoma was planing to go, but i could not make it.
I’m pretty sure Gen’s air game would have been much better if the second HK came out without hitting the first one like all other 2-hit air normals have.
I just got a stick, and seeing how I don’t have school today, I’m going to give Gen one more run with it. Maybe I was too hasty in abandoning him while I was still in playing pad.
I have no idea idea if you’re new to Gen in general (haven’t seen you post here before) but check out the Gen Shenanigans thread in the sticky threads for alot of info on Gen specific ‘footsies’ (like you said, a broad term). It also contains alot of other nifty tricks and many people have contributed to that thread with things like safe jump setups, cross-up oga guides, and alot more.
Even if you’re not new the amount of solid information in that thread is very useful to up your game with little things.
I’ve added alot of old+new info in the opening post of that thread btw guys. Things such as my own list of projectiles (including possible supers+ultras) that lp version mantis super can pass through on invincibility frames, Street11’s Oga cross-up chart and mantis super cross-up setups, Videos on doing mantis ultra cross-up, and TheBook24’s crane c.mk projectile dodge list!
I don’t know, in my experience I just find it so stupid that I can win so incredibly often with characters I know nothing about. Since Super came out I’ve been picking up Gen info exclusively, and yet no matter how much I improve my game, my win ratio really doesn’t change at all. The thing is, when I pick up new info about any other character I know, my game and win ratio improves DRASTICALLY. After seeing Vangief beat on Justin Schlong at EVO, I picked up a few simple tips that made my Gief amazingly better. When I started playing Vega I knew nothing about his SF4 playstyle, but I learned a few things from a friend and Vega is now my most consistently winning character (and my new secondary).
I feel that Gen really needs far too much investment, since he doesn’t boast as large a reward as other difficult to play characters like C. Viper or Hakan (strictly opinion, don’t kill me). This is compounded by the fact that virtually any other character can be picked up and played at a higher level than Gen. I realize that online doesn’t matter much in the real world, but even braindead Makoto and Hakan spam techniques seem to get me more wins than actual Gen strategy in online play.
He’s just so much fun to play, I just really wish he was better. I can’t bring myself to go back and re-main Zangief, as well as I do with the guy (in comparison to my Gen).
Everything you said is true, I play a pretty good cviper and a very good Seth yet they did not require so much time. And even then those two are probably ‘better’ then my Gen (by which I mean I win ALOT more).
Meh, all we can do is practice with what we have now, and wait and see what they plan to do to him. Even if they just tweak several normals, like they did to Sakura, he could improve quite a bit. And who knows, maybe they’ll throw in other pleasant surprises.
I have a simple question I’ve been somewhat afraid to ask lol. I never really played Alpha 2 or 3 very much, and I don’t really play any characters with real target combos currently (nor have I ever I suppose). I was wondering how target combos really benefit a character. We already have bread and butter combos, and I’m just not sure I understand how target combos will be better than a typical bnb combo other than being easier to execute. Anyone able to enlighten me? I was always curious why everyone is asking for his “chains” and I honestly don’t get it.
Target Combos are just easier to do because they are very lenient on timing. for instance, if Gen had a target combo of; mp-mk-fp, then you could do mp-mk-fp, gekiro quite easily. Because its a target combo it doesn’t follow the same rules as a chain or link combo as far as cancelling frames are concerned.
Lets see if I can put it visually.
This represents start-up [
and this recovery ]
and this when hit stun ends *
so one attack would look like this [mp ].
a linked combo would look like this [mp ][ *mk ] You can see how the start of the mk hits before the hit stun ends. This is a link combo.
a chain allows you to cancel the recovery frames of one move to start another, just like you can cancel normals into specials. Heres the catch. you CANT cancel a chain combo into a special+. This is why Gen can do crane crouching short into roll into super, but he cant do st. lp, cr. lk into roll etc… this is because its a chain, and not a link.
a chain combo would look like this; [lp [ ] lk] you can see how the start of the lk is actually before the end of the lp.
A target combo allows you to cancel the recovery and active frames (i think) with another normal (that is predetermined by the programmers) and specials+
so it would kinda look like this. (we’ll use our fake Gen target combo from above);
[mp[mk[fp] ] ] This shows that you can actually mash out each attack almost instantly. You can also hesitate and do this combo slowly. play around with dudley a little to see what I mean.
Gen was a chain combo character in alpha 2. In alpha 3 it might have changed to target combos because the leniency on his combos was too easy. This is actually why I didn’t play alpha 3. That and the announcer! Game was for children like the versus series!
With all that said I would like to see Gen get his chain combos back because thats who Gen is. But target combos would make him better. (its just not Gen IMO)
