repeat:
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
less pushback of the hands
IMO ( gen-newb ) 50 more health (950), no scaling per hit with his waterfallkicks and make l.dp and viable AA.
[troll mode on] mantis is AE Yun and Crane is AE Yang it’s correct RP wise no? 
[ troll mode off]<br><br>[necessary change]<br>-at least 950hp/950stun but maybe 1000hp/1000stun?<br><br>-try to correct the stance glitch while landing to let us have the same option select as everyone.<br><br>[a bit less important change]<br><br>-mantis u2:timer that stun? the 7sec HNK you gonna die stuff? <br><br>-teiga: change the hurtbox because you jump,you buff the guy do the AA, you activate the ultra and you trade or got 0 damage? it’s an hitting ultra, you don’t guard you take it.<br><br>-rework the lk gekiro hitbox/hurtbox to avoid getting flip throwed etc from it<br><br>-reword the shakudan system because having a c c.hk when it whiff for no reason is anoying. and maybe a juggle with the gekiro in air to air? it’s hard to hit than a j.mp and all the cast got a juggle after it.<br><br>-less push block from the hands<br><br>-rolling lp safe<br><br>-rework some damage reduce? our bnbs are 10 hits or more and in the end it’s not worthing it.<br><br>In an overall view, just crack the s*** of him, like he’s the hardest character to learn and to play.he’s not fully playable by an human being because an human being can’t use FASC (i’m talking on a cabinet with stick and 6 buttons).So just push it up because it’s one of the character that’s just never been good in the sf4 version it’s coming up slowly but still not enough so just push it! and then you can nerf …<br>
Well now that AE 2013 is imminent we should start forming some changes more seriously.
I think he should get a little more damage/stun
Hands should be safe against EVERYONE
Reduce push back on hands
Light kick Oga should be safe
I would be happy if he got and 2 of these buffs.
I agree with Biggs, Gen would have a new skill ceiling if he could pull off some form of hands loops like Chun, his apprentice…
I think this could be achieved with Hands inputs requiring four punches instead of five, and some changes to the properties of a connected hands attack. If they are +5 on block, wouldn’t it make sense to leave him close enough after to continue a blockstring similar to the mk>hands loops of vanilla street fighter 4?
Personally, I would like +1 frame advantage on hit for his jabs, 1F links for a character who fights in a stance based off of that kind of attack should be a little better, that and it would allow more new players to apply his optimized combo (including myself) under pressure.
I would like a bigger window for focus attack stance change, maybe until level 2 FA activates.
I think this change would give Gen a more dynamic set of tools to get close to an opponent fully attentive to his approach, because a good player can zone Gen out fairly well. Crane stances tools are too risky yet at the same time I think they are fairly balanced. Ex.Oga strike invincibility would only help his ability to wake up, and I feel that his approach is the real weakness that should be addressed.
I kinda want to ask for a faster mantis sweep, so counterhit st.mp to sweep would be more consistent considering his footsies are his dominant trait, but I also think that would make his sweep REALLY good…
Finally, ultra 2 definitely needs some properties changed. It is hardly used at all. Some new method of connecting mantis u2, and some form of higher priorety for crane u2 I think.
If they change NOTHING but Mantis ultra 2 to be more useful, I’d still be happy. Nothing feels worse than successfully landing Mantis U2 only to give them free meter while they neneer at you from a distance.
No. 1. Hands(mp version): mp Hands should reduce the 1st hit pushback. The crouching opponent should block at least two hit in far distance.
Goal: When the crouching opponent block the cr.mp Hands(mp version)，the opponent will block the 1st and 2nd hit of Hands(mp version) than the Hands will whiff. That makes Hands hard to punish. This change is really reasonable as Hands (mp version) cannot cancel to super which means Gen can have a more solid ground play and also doesn`t break the balance.
No. 2. Hands (hp version): Can be Hands(hp version,3frame start) regard as uppercut, this special is really hard to use the reversal system. The player should mush the bottoms really hard. Just need bigger advance input window like uppercut.
Goal: bottoms keyboard protecting… haha
No. 3. Light uppercut: Give light uppercut 4 frame invincible. Ver2012 is 3frame.So how about reduce the damage(15-20) and add 1frame invincible of light uppercut?
Goal: If we add 1 frame invincible. The worst thing is counteract with jumping attack when Gen is doing the anti air. As the 1st hit of light uppercut (lk.gekiro) is 100damage and the opponent jumping attact may have 100 damage,too. As Gen just have 900 health and the opponent might have 1000 health. I think it is feasible to add 1 invincible frame . So let the cr.hk(crane) do the vertical anti air and use the light uppercut deal with the jumping in far distance.
No. 4.Medium geikiro: If you(Dear Capcom) accept the No.3, please change the medium uppercut to light one(ver 2012).
Goal: Makes medium geikiro useful and Gen will get the same combo damage(also stun super gain) compare with ver 2012.
No. 5. Hard uppercut (hk.gekrio):
Thanks for the.ver 2012 changes it makes entirely different match for Gen. Really powerful tool, tks. But somethings it`s hard to connect with some character as Yun Sakura Cook dj Yang Guile. Can we change that a little bit?
Goal:At leats cr.lk cr.lp st.hp hk.gekiro should works to Yun in the nearest distance. >_<
No. 6. Ultra 2(mantis):Reduce the 15% damage of it and get 100 damage(regular) and the rest of damage keeps recoverable.
Goal: No one is using this ultra…Let`s make it worthwhile.
NO. 7. Stun: How about 950stun? Now is 900.
Goal: Greedy request haha…
No. 8.uc1(crane *It`s the air throw): Will be glad to see Gen will not change the positon with opponent after the uc finish.
Goal:When we push the opponent in the coner ,I read his jumping and use the air to air tools [ j.hk*2(crane) ] than connect with the uc. After uc finish. I am in the coner.>_< Why?!!
No 9. Buff s.lp ,Enhance cr.lp or lk
Slower the start frame of s.lp 1frame(Its 3frame in ver.2012). Let the c.lp get 3 frame start(Its 4frme in ver.2012)
- I would love to have 3 frame cr.lk. But may be that will be too strong.
No. 10 (Buff super and ultra damage) Reduce the 10~15% damage of sc+uc, If the some of the fore-mention requests will be accept.
Goal: Let Gen player play with fun. Don`t you think wait the sc than sc+uc is too tedious. The victory way should be more veriable. 
No. 11.Style changing confusion is that a bug?
For example: When I focus (Mantis) lv1 attack dash (During the dash I mashing the Hands),the Hands will start right after the dash.
But If I focus (Crane) lv1 attack dash (During the dash I change the style to mantis and I mashing the Hands),the Hands will not start right after the dash. That will be a style changing move before the Hands. 
Any Gen nerfs will be Xian’s fault.
Hands loops! I want them back! If not, less push back and more damage is already a god send either way.
Oh and more lenient input timings for Gekiro just cause
my 2 cents (also posted on capcom-unity)
General stuff:
-
stamina and stun: both 900>950. As it is now it’s just too low for a character with weak defensive options. I don’t wish to streamiline him with a FADCable reversal, and I think invincible EX oga would be too strong (almost broken in some matchups), but he NEEDS to not die as fast as he does currently.
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stance switch: get rid of the frame delay when landing. It’s pointless and annoying.
Mantis
sLP: adjust hitbox so that it hits all crouchers (perhaps shorten its horizontal range as tradeback)
Gekiro:
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give MK and HK version the Vanilla hitbox. While still slow and with no invincibility up to the hitting frames, at least it was a GREAT vertical anti-air (it used to beat Bison’s Headstomp clean!!), a things which now Gen lacks, some characters can really jump on him with little risk and big reward even in non safe-jump situations
-
double damage to the last hit of every non-EX version. He need sto deal more damage outside of super/ultra. Since every hit counts for damage scaling that wouldn’t be a huge increase in the final damage output anyways, but would be helpful.
Zan’ei: damage down, from 20280 to 20230. This super is already incredibly good, many easy hitconfirms, goes through fireballs, is a good whiff punisher even from a distance and so on, allowing free followups. To balance this against an increased damage output in standard combos this should be fair.
U2: in an effort to make U2 an actual viable choice (see also Crane version), get rid of the stupid white damage and make it deal 200 damage and 500 stun.
Crane
cr.HP: seeing how slow, telegraphed and still focusable this move is, it should be more rewarding to land it. My suggestion is: give the currently CH juggle property to normal hit, and have it crumple on counter hit.
Shakudan: free juggle after 1st hit only, EX juggle after both hits. Just like dictator’s jMP*2
Jyasen:
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Make last hit of every version deal 20 more damage and 40 more stun. As it is now Gekirou is the only combo ender to go for with its knockdown and okizeme possibilities; this buff means Jyasen could be a nice alternative when aiming for raw damage and stun while foregoing follow-up chances. Also a nicer reward to stance-switch comboing.
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charge time 60f>55f: the game is full with way better horizontal charge moves that have a shorter charge time, this is uncalled for.
Oga: damage[EX] 100[150]> 70[130]. Seeing as how many ambigous setups it has, and it already damaging followups, I think it would be fair to lower its raw damage.
U1: startup 0+11 > 0+9. As an anti-air ultra (that also being a grab can’t hit the landing frames) it’s just too slow.
U2: startup 0+10 > 0+6. While U1 is still the best option in most matchups, this would really help in some very hard ones like vs Rose or Guile (expecially Guile!). Real startup would be more anyways when Gen is grounded as he has to reach an height to activate it.
sup guys havent been here in a while.
anyway, i think a big part of gens strength in the 2012 version is his reverse blockables and unblockables. theres a good chance that this stuff is going to be removed in the update
that being said, i dont think gens needs a whole bunch of help.
for his mantis moves
hands- i think the first 3 hits of hands need to do little to no push back on block. the fourth hit should be the one to blow the opponent across the screen. that would make cr.mp hands at least as safe on block as st.mk hands
lk giekro- should be airborne as soon as the strike/throw invincibility wears off. its already hard enough to use as an AA, no need to get counter hit by the jump in into a full ground combo. that change alone would bring me back to gen
U2- less recovery after a landed U2 to allow more time for a set up. currently you dont get much mix up after and the opponent gets all that health back too easily
crane- all moves charge time down to 55 frames
lp roll 0 on block, +2 on hit. rolls dont have much use outside of being caught in crane and not having time to switch for a mantis punish
ex oga- full projectile inv. just sucks even trying to guess a fireball and having it hit you anyway when you time it correctly. current version only useful for cross ups and dodging chip kill fireballs
U1- reduce the start up so it can be used as an AA
Gen
He’ll indeed take a indirect nerf with the possible removal of unblockables and fake crossups… so he needs stuff to compensate. Hope he also gets an indrect buff with the possible nerfs to reversal fadc shenanigans.
He also has some annoying inconsistencies that should get attention.
Adjustments
[details=Spoiler]Ex Hands Input Adjustment
It’s very common for Gen players to mess up their Hands inputs when buffering it from normals, making he waste precious meter. Ex Hands input should be made harder, just enough so you don’t get it without intent.
S.MP, S.HP Link Adjustment
This link does not work properly on Shotos, this can be fixed by either making S.mp pushback a little closer, or by making his St.Hp hitbox a tiny bit bigger.
Ex Hands, Cr.HK Link Adjustment
This link does not work at all against Juri, Guile and Sakura. Same situation from above.
Roll Charging Timing Adjusted
Gen’s Roll isn’t a very strong move, and to make things worse, it has the biggest charging time of all SFIV. Simply reducing the amount of charging required to pull it off could make it a lot more viable.[/details]
Buffs
[details=Spoiler]Oga -> Close Kick Frame Advantage Changes
This move does not make any sense. It has a big startup (the wall dive itself), it isn’t a good mixup tool at all so it can’t open people up, and has terrible frame disadvantage on block. An interesting use for this move is to allow it to be in advantage on block (even if only if it hits somewhat meaty), so Gen players would use it after finishing a combo for extra cheap damage, extra meter and continue pressure (it can be reversaled, so it’s not abusive at all). Ex version could use even better advantage.
St. LP/ Cr. LP +6 Advantage on hit
Gen’s main BNB requires tricky timing. This could be fixed by either adding an extra frame of buffer for normals, or giving him more advantage on hit for these normals.
Stun Issue
Gen is a low health character with low stun and poor reversals options. He dies too quickly when he is being pressured, and he doesn’t really have an “extreme” gameplay, such is the case for Ibuki (extreme offense) or Dhalsim (extreme defense), both being also low stamina/low stun characters. Giving him better stun resistence like Chun could buy him another chance to recompose himself.[/details]
The only two things Gen should have changed is the ability to change his stance during Round start freeze. And fix his hitbox when attacking crouch blocking characters. It’s annoying facing characters like Fei Long who have the last 2 hits whiffed on him while he’s crouch blocking and all they have to do is Rekka. I’d ask for the ability to FADC blocked Gekiros but I think that’d be asking too much.
Jyasen (roll) is faster. LP version travels under fireballs but has no attack in it anymore. (It’s a charge move so there is no risk it would be too good.) Perhaps rolls could be able to cancel with the press of a punch button.
Better anti-air abilities for Gekiro.
U2 Mantis dizzies if opponent doesn’t hit Gen within a number of seconds. To avoid making it unbalanced they make it count as more hits instead so that larger scaling kicks in and makes the damage done during dizzy far smaller. U2 M also connects against airborne opponents. Make it less safe on block to make up for the buff.
U1 Crane slightly fastert startup.
Better frame advantage after FADC off of hands, making it easier to connect a mp.
Make it possible to juggle specials (Gekiro) off of one hit of Shakudan (j hk while in Crane). (At least make it possible to juggle with EX. Gekiro.)
Remove inv frames on EX Gekiro. Instead give it a little bit more damage, stun and a hard knockdown.
Give him back inv frames on EX Ouga.
Slightly more reach on Mantis mk.
slightly improved stun health
buff the useless crane moves
5f invincibility for MK gekiro
mantis u2 has pursuit property
What is pursuit property and which crane normals do you consider as useless?
Pursuit property is like what Gen’s Crane Super or U1 have; you can hit the opponent further after hitting that air-to-air.
Thanks for the explanation
i know that some of his crane normals are really good, but his s.MK, s.LK, cr.LP, and s.LP don’t have much use compared to their mantis counterparts in terms of startup and frame advantage/disadvantage