Are you sure about that? How many Japanese arcades have you been to? Because IIRC someone said that CvS2 is more or less dead and impossible to find in Japanese arcades save a handful of specialized hotspots.
If there are specialized hot spots it’s not dead. Especially if there are a handful of them.
What we’re lacking is devotion and motivation.
The difference is that videogames (which are dependent on hardware and technology) can be improved, and in huge leaps.
Basketball now compared to 20 years ago? Same shit. But Melty Blood Actress Again Current Code compared to Karate Champ…
Relative to Japanese players I’m sure its dead, but they still run CvS2 nationals annually, as well as fairly regular tournaments. If you used Japanese standards for a dead game, lots of games would be dead on arrival in America.
Media/Entertainment/Art is the same across mediums: Majority of it sucks and is forgettable, the rest stands the test of time.
You think there aren’t “improved” board games?
You think chess isn’t an improvement on another game?
There’s 1000s of games that didn’t survive or don’t get played, a few were fun/good enough to stick around and get passed on.
You’re not going to tell people to quit playing Scrabble, you can play Words with Friends or Draw Something on your phone or computer instead, get out the stone age.
So why are people doing this shit with fighting games (or video games as a whole)? They shouldn’t. If new blood keeps flowing into the old games, the games will still be preserved.
It’ll be sick to bust out like ST, Chrono Trigger, SMB3, Sonic or Streets of Rage at like 50-60 and show your grandkids how to play like old people showed me how to play cards, dominoes or chess or like their old favorite movies and music albums. Just like we have more advanced games now than then, it’s still fun to play the old games (as in older video games, card games, board games, pool, etc.).
none of the old games are fully explored
just recently in Japan people figured out you can guard jump in 3s, block the first few frames then jump which changes the nature of corner pressure and how it’s approached. sure you can dismiss 100% stun on Chun as “relatively minor” or something but guard jump is not minor. if anyone watched some of the more recent danisen battles it was on display. any game worth playing for a decade is probably not going to be “all figured out” at any point.
and I don’t think the whole “new players have to play against guys with 10 years experience” is a legit excuse. yeah other people start off better than you. but you also have all the resources they’ve built, the knowledge they’ve accumulated, the high level footage to watch, and if you’re willing to put in the work and eat losses for a while, a lot of high level competition to play against.
I won’t call it lazy because it isn’t just that. but most new players just aren’t willing to sit there and get raped by Genei Jin Yun over and over while they slowly figure things out. they’d rather just go online, pick Ryu, tatsu from full screen and throw some fireballs, and if that doesn’t work out “this game is ass, I’m going back to SF4.” which is sort of understandable I guess. but also pretty lame.
When you say well kept resources do you mean like when SRK crashed and all of those threads disappeared? or all of those youtube videos and stream archives from 2003?
Does anyone else remember how hard it was to get match video back then? Cameras on phones weren’t even a regular feature at that pont. There were people with actual camcorders recording matches or if you were lucky a direct hookup to the arcade cabinet.
If you want to catch up to players in an older game your plan can’t be “what would I do to catch up in SSF4, I’ll just do that in this game too” because the same resources aren’t readily available.
FIBA basketball rules and regulations changed dramatically (4x10 minutes, instead of 2x20 minutes quarters, 30 sec attack reduced to 24, more team oriented, gone are the days when players scored 40 points and took 20 rebounds etc) the way it turned out now, I dont like watching basketball at all.
Even though this helped reduce the gap between the NBA and the rest of the world.
the approach is also different. If I was 15 years old, my ego would hurt a lot more and I’d strive to learn everything about the game so as not to lose or look ridiculous
.
I wasnt involved that much in fighters to begin with when I was younger, so I am technically in the same level as the new teenagers. But now in my 30s I dont even care about winning or losing that much. mo matter if the game is 2 or 20 years old. Even if I was a much better player, I’d think the same. I’d just play to the level I know and whatever the outcome.
There’s new match footage coming out for a lot of the old games still.
I think you underestimate the ability to adapt as well. You can just play and you’ll get better out of necessity.
There’s also feedback and talking to people.
You’re not the only new guy there either, you can find some around your skill level.
Don’t understate how far strong basics matter, please.
Umm ok? The differences are still way smaller than Karate Champ->Melty Blood.
You asked why most people are not as interested in older games and I gave you the reason. Why do you talk to me as if I’m forcing anyone to do anything?
The main reason is probably aesthetics. Many games today are NOT more sophisticated than games of the past, just with better graphics and sound. Remake the old games in brand new shiny aesthetics and you’ll get new blood.
If you want to run a tournament for your old games, then throw it yourself. Don’t expect other TOs to do it for you at a major, ask permission to run a tournament, bring the setups and equipment, advertise your tournament, and do it yourself.
Could you provide me with more information? I’m very interested in this.
not if you add early 20th century basketball!
I think were talking about different players at this point. Do I think Infiltration could become a great CVS player if he really wanted to? Yes. Players like Yipes and Neo came up after the scene for that game was already well established, its more than possible. The question is do you think that enough new players would put in that level of effort to get tournament attendance numbers up to where the game is contender and my answer to that is HELL NO.
You can just play and you’ll get better out of necessity. - Take a look around the fighting game forums if you believe getting better out of necessity is the primary option over quitting when most new players are faced with constant loses. I wish it was, but its not.
There’s also feedback and talking to people. - If you lived in a gaming hub like Infiltration, or Yipes or Neo, but if you don’t you have to wade through swamp of online nonsense, trolls and horribly organized and sometimes just incorrect information. People who know better look at forum post with different eyes because we can tell who knows what they are talking about and who doesn’t, but to a new player confident scrubs are sources of endless knowledge. Bad players will be lining up to tell new players how bad A groove is because it doesn’t have a level 3 super.
You’re not the only new guy there either, you can find some around your skill level - again dedicated people will, but most people will just hop online, and get owned by people they have no business playing and quit.
Tournaments are different from an online scene because of the money output involved, again do I think a good number of new players would learn CVS2 on PSN and become competitive, yes. Do I think enough of them will be willing to drive an hour, pay venue and entry fee each week to jump start a tournament scene, when 10 year vets are just waiting to turn them into pot monsters, HELL NO.
all the resources to go from “fucking awful” to competent player in 3s are available now, through a mix of SRK, Youtube, and Nico Video. I’ve made exactly that journey since OE came out. 3s community is willing to help people who actually want to put the effort in to get better, and there are a lot of resources. Tutorial videos by C-Royd and others of how the game functions and what the mindgames are, footage of Japan and So Cal, system mechanics thread explaining how things work. it’s all there and it’s all available to people if they really want to get better. I can’t speak for other old game communities, but I expect it’s mostly the same with them as well.
that most new players don’t take advantage of these resources suggests to me that either they don’t know they’re there (possible) or they don’t actually care that much about getting better. but I expect that’s the same for most games, not just old ones. look at any fighting game and the online community is littered with terrible players who don’t actually want to improve. but it has nothing to do with “the old players are too hard to beat and no one wants to help.” there’s always good players to take beatdowns from, that’s true in every game old or new.
Me: Hey son… it’s Dark souls: Prepare to die edition time!
MiniKaww: NO DAD NO!
Can and should, but are they actually improved? Generally not. Gaming design peaked from the mid nineties to the mid 2000s (and I’m stretching that date), save for a few exceptions.
At the end of the day you need people showing up to have tournaments and casuals for old games. For example my current games r marvel3 n persona but my old game of choice is 3s ive been to2 Big E philly majors and both had enough entrants to justify continued running them. I live in the greater Toronto area and we have had 3 3s side tourneys this year tacked onto a standard local tourney (mavel 3, AE, anime games) and each had detect turnout, 8-12 entrants.
But if a marvel 1side tourney fact that some of the current players in my scene used to play marvel 1. Basically 3s and GG are the only 2 old side game that wont flop in my region. If your region can at least get 8+ people for 1 or 2 old games espec if they are on ps3/360 i think organizers should run it, if you are gona go team NAH n bitch and not talk to organizers than its your onw fault.
Really late in the play cycle people (BHK/Magnetro?) figured out how to block the Sentinel unblockable on incoming characters. Still doesn’t change that AA + the boots owns up the left side of the character select screen, but it evens it out a tiny bit.
The new generation of tech also can balkanize players: MvC2 DC purists don’t have to deal with the Cyke/Mags/Psy/Blackheart wonkiness (plus other weirdness) that you do on new consoles. Standardizing on the new version only is probably a net win for the community since that keeps the barrier to entry lower, painful as that may be to purists.