I know that its unlikely that the game is going to be patched beyond fixing matchmaking and the lifebar/music glitches, but it’d be fun to speculate as to how the game could be further tuned
Ryu:
O. Ryu fbs - I know I’ve harped on this, but why play Ryu when Akuma has all the best versions of all the shoto moves (11/39-40-41)
Increase hitstun on the 1st/2nd/3rd hits of the Super: I know people have seen far too many times where people block the rest of the super after being hit by the first part, usually after having their projectile nullified.
Ken:
O. Ken fbs - 14f fbs don’t cut it in ST, and all the other new stuff he got in remix doesn’t really affect the heart of what made him weaker in most matches than Ryu.
Honda:
Something needs to be done about jab headbutt. He’s still too good against non-projectile chars, maybe have a blocked one allow for enough frame disadvantage to make him think before using it. Probably needs a corresponding buff to another move to balance it out
Chun:
Get rid of the new SBK, or at least make it a separate motion/move from the old one
Blanka:
He’s fine, can’t think of anything else. Maybe make rainbow roll faster?
Gief:
Other than fixing the Super bug that Ultradavid’s detailed, I think he’s good. I don’t know they took out the 720 motion as an option though
Sim:
Similar to above, give him back hcfx2+p as an option for the super motion. Removing the ability to combo super because of the new motion didn’t make any sense considering it wasn’t gamebreaking, and its a nice little tool.
KKK Teleports need to travel about 15% farther. Having additional recovery frames AND not being able to use this as a reliable reversal? At least have it be able to escape something because right now I’'m always ending up within attack distance of the opponent, even if they’re not predicting and positioning appropriately
Guile:
He’s fine. I’m sure Battosai could come up with 500 overpowered/extraneous buffs if it really came down to it
T. Hawk:
Have his old knockdown/bounce back dive as an option. Maybe move his new dive to KKK and restore the original to PPP.
Fix super bug, as with Gief
Fei:
-Be able to combo after RH Chicken Wing: I think to completely remove the ability to combo after the CW was a mistake, but it was clear with the new easier motion, that things couldn’t stay the way they were. I think one of them should have keep the original properties
a) In vanilla, RH was the most "lenient’ CW since its trajectory allowed for most people to easily break the trap.
b) Forward would have been the ideal CW to give comboability back to since short CW is the invincibility one, and RH goes the farthest, but unfortunately it was the main part of an air-tight CW trip in Vanilla so that only leaves RH. Right now, there’s a lot less incentive to do anything except the short CW…
Vega:
Increase startup for flipkick to like 6 or 7 frames from 4 frames where it is now. I still think it was a stupid idea to give chars like Vega and Chun anti-air, but at least Chun Li’s gets beaten out by a lot of moves. If you’re going to give it that much invincibility (so much so that it will occasionally beat a N. Ken dp if done at the same time), you should make it easier to safe jump on.
Slightly Increase recovery frames of cr. rh slide so that you can’t just another free slide if blocked at max range in the corner. Keep it safe, but not spammable
Bison:
As much as I hate this character, Sirlin did a good job in improving him without going overboard.
Balrog:
Still powerful, without being completely auto-pilot like he was in Vanilla so no changes
Sagat:
Like TVG mentioned below, reduce some of the dizzy points on this guy otherwise I really how Remix Sagat works
I can’t think of anything for Cammy and Dee Jay
Akuma:
Hitboxes: I think Sirlin said they lifted this “special” version of him out of the Dreamcast version simply because it was the one that had the super ready. Clearly this one wasn’t meant for serious play because his hitboxes are all kinds of retarded. Align them back to the original ST’s hitboxes (minus the ones they specifically fixed). Tweak the st. rh and st. fwd that Sabre loves so much
Demon: I don’t know if the current version has any sort of recovery, but something has to be done about this move
I don’t think anyone needs to be changed except the old bottom tier people: T.Hawk, Cammy, and Fei. I kind of feel like Sirlin did a meh job of balancing these guys because he only knows how they should play in theory (American people just don’t play those chars well)
T.Hawk is okay now but I’m pretty sure he’s the worst in the game. Sirlin himself said he was worse than O. Hawk. He needs something more without having an infinite. I kind of agree with what you said about giving him two dives. I was also thinking maybe he could have two versions of Cyclone, one with a whiff animation and one without. Obviously the one without a whiff animation would need to be balanced so that it would not create an infinite.
Cammy just seems like wanna be balrog or something now. I just don’t see the point. She’s good now, but she’s like everyone else. I think Jchensor had some really good ideas about how to balance her without making her a boring character. He said that he liked Cammy because she was one of the few characters who had a safe uppercut instead of a safe torpedo move. I really like that too. I think her Dragonkick should have been made so that it’s safe everywhere except for the corner, maybe. I don’t know. Ask Jchensor.
Fei Long’s Chicken Wing is no good anymore, and he’s no fun without a good chicken wing.
Balance wise the biggest problem in the game is akuma’s airfireball. I think what it needs is some startup frames. The dumbest thing about it now is that from many positions you can fully predict that he’s going to throw an airfireball, but there’s nothing you can do about it.
Sagat should have new sagat dizzy points. J.hk, c.mk x tiger shot shouldn’t dizzy. Other than that i think he’s fine, maybe a slight nerf of tiger knee damage and dizzy.
WTF was Sirlin thinking when he made Akuma playable?! Did he not test how retarded Akuma’s advantages, invincibility/priority, and hitboxes were?!!@$$@@#$@
Tought you guys might be interested in this, if you haven’t seen it already.
[media=youtube]bnDHo7ccO-U[/media]
Akuma does seem retarded, but damdai is very good. However, MK somersault beats air fireball cleanly yet it seems frankdux went for the LK one, indicating that he maybe didn’t have that much experience against akuma. Don’t flame me if i’m wrong, just guessing.
Fei Long was a problem character in development. His CW did work the way you stated for a long time, and he dominated horribly.
I was not a huge fan on Chun’s new SBK at first but it has grown on me.
Just fixing Akuma’s hit boxes should be enough, we don’t need to really power up Ryu’s super just to make him the fireball god again. Akuma’s are strong but don’t do alot of damage.
I suggest adding Green hand properties to a few more moves to help some characters against Akuma. Ken’s fierce Shoryuken seems like a godd idea. It already pretty cleanly dodges ground fireballs so it would only improve his game against Akuma. It might also help him against Sagat. Boxer’s headbutt is another example.
The only thing I want changed about Chun Li is her idle and crouching animation. I wish they were drawn based more on the idle and crouching animation of 3S chun. That seems to be the standard for Chun now and the old one seems dated and does not fit a character as graceful as she is supposed to be. This is a change that does not even need to effect gameplay so long as the animation timeing, frames, and hit boxes are unchanged.
I always felt Cammy was intended to play the way Blue Mary turned out in Fatal Fury/KoF. For a character with so many grabs (all of which are rather splashy and special looking…suplexes and frankenteiners), why is her throw range so subpar? All I would change with her is a few extra pixels of throw range.
Give Gief and Hawk the ability to use the old motion for supers as well as the new one.
I also would love to see EX versions of each character (different super and a few move changes for balance. IE for Claw ; Give him the double forward flip super in EX mode but remove the normal Forward Flip Kick. For Dictator give him Psycho Crusher as a super but replace his normal Psycho Crusher with Psycho Shots, remove fake slide.)
I don’t mean any offense to this, but I don’t think that match really showcases anything that makes me go “man, Akuma should be banned.” That’s not an insult to damdai, either, who has beat me with his Akuma pretty convincingly, even. But, not during the match posted on Youtube, nor during my matches with him, did I ever feel like I lost because Akuma had too many advantages - the losses are better chalked up to not knowing how to deal with a really good Akuma yet.
I personally think that there are things that could certainly use nerfs, but I don’t think damdai showcases them, to be honest - I just think he’s damn good, and is using a powerful character like Akuma. Of course he’s gonna win a lot!
Akuma: Sirlin tried having air fireballs cost super meter, it made akuma too weak and really its his air fireballs that make akuma unique, he should be allowed to use them whenever he wants. If he really needs a chance he just needs his hitboxes made more reasonable.
Cammy: She’s decent now but she lacks a good reason to use her as she seems to lack any particularly good match ups and has a couple bad match ups (even if they aren’t as bad as they used to be). Her only useful spinning back fist is her jab one, I haven’t heard of or seen anyone truly use the strong and fierce for anything that jab couldn’t have done just as well if not better. At ranges the jab can’t hit from the opponent recovers to soon and will just sweep you out of your medium or fierce SBF. Maybe they need to be a little bit faster? Or better yet change where her stray hitbox is instead of all being on the head, strong at the feet, fierce… I don’t know middle I guess. This would make her SBF a little less predictable and maybe let her get through things like head butts or high tiger shots.
Chunli: DO NOT return her old SBK, I never found that useful, EVER. The new one has only proven useful in a few rare situations and match ups but some rare usefulness is better then no usefulness. If it were up to me we’d have Sirlin’s prefered version of her super, but I guess we’re stuck with this one cause Japanese players are too attached to being able to store it. Seems like a dumb reason to me, I’m sure many Japanese Dahlsim players were used to abusing his noogie traps but that didn’t justify keeping them.
I agree with this. I have seen good Akuma’s beaten with pretty much everybody. See Keits vids for example. The first bunch of matches Akuma pwns, then after people caught on these were fair matches. It is too early to really tell if any tweaks need to be made to balance him at all. Anytime a new game comes out I always notice that certain characters seem God tier at first, then after a few months see little or no play. First few months MvC2 was out Guile seemed the God character in my area, everyone played him or lost to him. People just need to learn the Akuma matchup.
Shiiiiit, if Sakura.D can do it then I’m doing it too.
If a character is not touching the ground, they should be unthrowable.
Akuma looks fine, except for one thing. Give SGS more start up. I don’t think that Sirlin took into account ST’s considerable lack of a super flash. In other games, the super flash/pause was large and obvious enough that the opponent would definitely be holding up by time it was over. So in HDR, it’s 9(right?) frames of start up. But in CvS2, it’s about 2 seconds of super flash then 9 frames(right?) of start up.
Give Fei back the ability to combo from CW under normal circumstances. Make cr.MP cancelable.
Give Hawk his normal dive in addition to his new one. Make his new dive recover faster if it whiffs.
Remove the launch effect Dictator’s u+MP has on grounded opponents.
Give Yoga Flame some push-back. Make Dhalsim’s throw always toss the opponent behind him. Decrease the priority of his drills.
Remove Green Hand effect from Honda Jab Headbutt(fat chance). Make Fierce HHS even less priority.
Make Cammy’s jab and strong Spinning Back Fist’s come out faster. Jab version should be very fast so she can whiff it for meter. Remove the head vulnerability from Jab version.
ST already has EX characters Dumbass. Every character aside from Akuma has an Alternate version based on how they played in Super. Newsflash, regardless of whether you call that an O character or an EX character that is exactly the same thing. Alpha 3 technically had the same thing as well, characters played differently and in many cases had completely different moves in each ISM. Likewise in SF3, with each Super Art choice effectively changing how you would play a character. So “what is this, KOF?” has no bearings. Capcom does this more than SNK ever did.
Her old SBKs are probably better. They had longer startup, but that means they probably had longer invulnerability. This made it more useful to evade meaty crossups and walldives. Also, the fact that it stayed close to the ground meant that your opponent at least had to wait a second before it was safe to hit you out of it. If you use the new SBK to avoid a crossup, your opponent can hit you out of it the second they land, meaning you’re usually in a position to be crossed up again. Whopee, fuck the new SBK.
The new Air SBK is even worse. Now, it’s unsafe to use Air SBKs in the corner to build meter - one of her most important tools against fireball traps, since Air SBKs build meter the fastest, and using her super was the only safe, reliable way to get out of the corner. Couple that with the fact that the new added motion gets you the occasional accidental Air SBKs, and you have some epic fail. Chun’s hardest matches are HARDER as a result of this.
Definatly. As Sirlin said, everyone has a way to beat his air fireball. Granted the anticipation/reaction time needed might be somewhat challenging, but that’s what its all about. People just need time to learn the right responses. Remember, for all intents and purposes, Akuma is a new character.