I need to take it to the lab tomorrow in that case abit more, though it does feel abit gimped towards me. Does any of Juri’s AA’s beat Rose’s J.Hp? Seems to win every time.
o_O; c.MP beats it almost always for me. Little known fact, if Rose tries to cross you up, or ambiguous cross you, you can either c.MP (because it moves you forward and out of harm’s way) or dash out on wakeup 'cause she has such a floaty jump =)
The main problem I have playing against Rose is the c.MP 'cause the damn Spiral is free chip =\ Juri’s c.MK sucks trying to counter poke it, the only poke I know that works well against it is IA.DK -> followup. Meh, you could try to do as I do and sweep from time to time to try to catch Rose dancing for footsies =)
Footsies against Rose: c.MK, c.HK, s.MK~
I’ll try to look for your replays possibly against Rose later Mike =\ 'Cause I dunno where you’re losing >.>
Thanks for the info on the meaty pressure, it’s one of the things in my game I need to improve, do you have any advice for putting commands in training mode to see if I am timing my meatys correctly? I’m guessing the move would have to beat me if I timed it wrong, and I would CH them, or stop their input if I did it correctly.
The Vega player told me that outside of his wakeup Izuna drop, if the Vega comes in for a Izuna mixup, cr. HP beats his options. The timing is obviously different depending on when Vega is actually over her head, but if the cr. HP is timed right, she will stop it. She will even turn around and hit it on the other side if he tries to crossup. He ran a lot of different versions of it and if I timed it right, it would work. The only time it failed is when I pressed the cr. HP too soon.
Like Kail said, these guys were killers, both of them. Even when I had them in the corner I was just simply being outplayed and unable to apply the type of pressure I want to. The post was made after I had dropped around 14 games to this guy in a row, and I was starting to feel like I couldn’t do anything. This advice is helpful. I should also mention that Juris standing far mk is a very good option against his crouching pokes. It won in a lot of situations where you would think Vega cr. MP/LP would win for free.
If you kasatushi with HP and she does cr. MP xx spiral, do you avoid the spiral and have time to punish her? Obviously dangerous because of the armor break, and if you do it on anticipation you could just get stuffed… But I would imagine against someone spamming cr. MP xx Spiral it could be useful to avoid a chip out.
Fetz. Remember…its hard to outpoke vega with his claws on. You cant hit his claws…so they will usually beat out a lot of your pokes
It’s easy to lose sight of the actual matchup when you only play one type of player, or learn a matchup really well.
It’ll feel like it’s advantageous, then you play someone new and good and you’re like wtf…
I’ve had this happen to me a few times already.
That shouldn’t be the case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlxgTk9Wf_c
For EX Pinwheel to beat Soul Spiral, I think EX Pinwheel has to be done pretty late. If it’s done quickly, or as a true reversal, it’ll result in a trade that’s not in your favour.
Played around with it abit more and still not convinved, i can get sweep to beat both backdash and spiral more consistantly so ill probably use that instead, but thats still a handy trick, though ive known about it for ages (i was around when i first posted the video) ive never really applied it.
@Eish, no need to look for videos bro, i was just wondering if theres any specific Rose strategies/tips i could use in general in the matchup.
Alright played the Gief matchup today the eiSH way and honestly I like it more than constantly zoning. I may not have won once -.- constantly rushing but hell it was fun. Honestly giefs don’t expect it at all. I honestly don’t think they can tech throws. lol but on a more serious note, it wasn’t that bad if i guessed right on whatever reversal they were going to do. But overall not guessing > guessing so I’m goin back to the constantly zoning and maybe a lil rushdown to surprise them.
Played a long session tonight.
Guy is super free to Juri. I won every match against Guy players(all were decent pp/bp also)… her cr. MK beats his pokes, his wakeup options, his jumpin options. Very unfair.
I managed a win on the #1 bp Blanka, but had some difficultly with weaker blanka players. Not that they were relying on gimmicks, I just have trouble reacting to what he is doing. Eventually I just lamed it at midscreen with Fuhajin store until I could push him to the corner and active FSE, then the match became one-sided.
Cr. MP seems to beat all of Gouken wakeup options other than super/ultra1/counter. I stuffed wakeup reversal Tatsu several times on decent bp Goukens. Also, Goukens seem to be doing a lot of neutral jumping, need to find a way to exploit it.
Juri seems to have the advantage on T. Hawk, but that match is still scary. You let him empty condor dive at you once, and you could be looking at 60% or more of your life gone.
Her BnB combo after jump MK crossup(cr.lk x st.lk x cr.lk xx senpusha) is very unreliable against shoto/guile. This is probably in the combo guide but I think the combo to master is J.mk x cr.lk x st.lk. cr.mk xx senpusha. Not just for them, but I’m guessing the spacing on it will be more reliable for all characters, and stop that frustrating far st. lk from preventing the continued pressure.
I think I need to find a sagat sparring partner, he was by far my toughest match tonight. Need to turn that one around.
You dont need to justify their online credentials, the number 1 BP Vega (as i type this) is a French 13 year old that sends derogatry xbl mail if you beat him, like seriously, it means nothing. Points only equates to how much they play online.
For BnB you only go for 3 lights after a crossup lk, crossup mk always leaves you too far away. Against Guile, when your up close, you only get one proximity normal before your considered far away, so keep that in mind too.
For anything else other than the crossup situation, the way i do it is if i land 2x cr.lk/st.lk, if they are standing, ill followup with st.lp xx cr.mk xx hk pinwheel, if they are crouching ill do another cr.lk into mk pinwheel, the final cr.lk always hits crouchers (if you started pointblank in front of them), st.lp will always hit a standing opponent (except Yun, Yang, Chun, Viper and Ibuki, probably 1 or 2 more i forget).
Have to disagree with you there. I think BP/PP can mean less when it’s low because the player can either be completely new (few games live or online), or someone who plays a lot with good competition but no ranked matches. I’ve played against all sorts of players in the 1500 or less PP range, but around 2000+ the skill level has been fairly consistent. I know that doesn’t mean that someone with the highest BP with their character is necessarily the best player. If you run into someone with a BP around 5000+ and PP 2000+ you can assume that they have a lot of matchup experience, and generally understand the game. If that information is useless to you, so be it. The blanka in question was at 3900 pp and 15Kbp. You want to tell me that playing and winning against him means nothing? The guy players were all 2000 + pp, with bp at or above 5K.
Against a standing opponent I do the same combo, I’m just starting to notice that when I am in a close footsie battle(or doing crouch tech) my tendency is to try to cr lk x st lk x cr lk xx lk pinwheel(to maintain pressure) and it is SO frustrating when the spacing is off and instead of landing the cr. lk xx lk pinwheel, you whiff the second cr. lk, and get far st. lk instead of the pinwheel. Or even worse, you whiff the second cr. lk and you go for the BnB with MK pinwheel, and it comes out but no combo. When you are at that weird midrange and unsure if the other cr.lk is in optimal range, I think mastering st.lk. cr. mk x mk/hk pinwheel combo will eliminate a lot of that frustration. I think I misspoke about my footsie problem in OP. In crossup situations I will take your advice and change my lights accordingly
Thanks for the info. Mike, and for always responding to my thoughts and questions.
I know this thread needs a big makeover after AE, but I just thought I’d mention that you can cross-up the twins and still land the full bnb combo:
cross up j MK > cr MK/MP > release > cr MK > Pinwheel
Spacing of combos should be left at your discretion, its quite easy to notice what will whiff and what wont after awhile, generally the 3x lk BnB will work on all crouching characters because of how wide they become on crouch.
That’s kind of weird, actually. EX Spiral is really slow and the invincibility wears off two frames before it becomes active. It’s like a worse version of EX Pinwheel.
The active frames of expinwheel go on and off though, its understandable that to beat it in that case the timing has to be right on the first active frame of expinwheel, which is abit…random really to be quite frank.
Messing around vs Guile/Ryu in training mode.
Best option off crossup j.mk hit is : st. lk x cr mk x mk/hk pinwheel. With the HK version you can 50 more damage, and push them further. Also, if you crossup guile with mk and do st.lk first, you can always do cr.lk and it will connect. If you do it the other way, (j.mk x cr.lk x st.lk) the st.lk will be the far version, and mk pinwheel will not connect.
Basically, if you hit confirm the j.mk, the best option will be st.lk first, then whatever ender you prefer.
Fetz, If you would like, I would like to show you a few things regarding the Guy matchup to show you its not completely free. It all depends on who gets the first knockdown. I mained Guy in super and was considered among most high level players to be among the top 5 Guy’s in the US. Kaiten Izuna OS rapes juri for FREE once Guy gets a KD on her, its just that 1) most Guy players are shit, and 2) the Guy players that ARENT shit, dont know the Juri match to save their lives. Very few at least. Anywayssss…
Eh ive always heard people on these boards talking about the rose matchup being in Juri’s favor, but Ive never felt that way personally. Maybe against bad Rose’s, but not good ones. I play MiikeyBoi (best rose in the south) regularly and have played Gootecks / FilipinoMan / Sabin all on live multiple times…her pokes flat out beat juri most of the time to poking is kinda not a great idea. Try baiting her into a fireball war, because as we all know, no one can really straight BEAT Juri in a fireball war…youll be able to slowly push her to the corner
just make sure you FB safely because if she gets in, once combo and youll have to start alllll over with her having a life lead. You shouldnt worry too much about giving her meter if shes just absorbing your fireballs, you can still push her back. She doesnt gain a whole lot from getting meter until she gains super. Go into training mode and mess around with rose’s CH setups so you know how to react when you see them. and yeah it may be obvious, but you need to make damn sure she doesnt get to throw any fireballs for free unless shes countering one of your fireballs. you need to divekick those every time. also, regarding her wakeup, just OS her backdash with either a safejump > pinwheel, or a cl.st.lk > lk pinwheel. pretty easy…but if youre playing a good rose youre not going to have her on wakeup until shes in the corner. dont try to whiff punish her pokes…its pretty hard. her st.hk flat out out ranges you so you cant really punish it from max distance, her cr.mp is 4 frame start so she can whiff one, then CH your whiff punish for a free combo…the only things you can really whiff punish, and MUST whiff punish, are her slide (cr.mk / st.mk), and her st.mk (st.mk / cr.mk).
fun fact: if rose activates U2 on her wakeup, you can completely negate both orbs with an EX HK Fuhajin if youre spaced properly.
hope some of that helps =/
Pretty much as i thought it was…damn Rose…
fun fact - U2 isnt invincible startup anymore so meaties beat it.