Full-time Purple Spider Lesbian: Juri Match-up/Strategy Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
41

i caught up on the thread this morning after my last write-up last night. let me point out a few things:

vega matchup is pretty up in the air as far as whose favor it is, but i definitely think it can’t be in juri’s favor when a st.mk is even slightly misplaced, it calls for cr.mk xx ex barcelona xx izuna drop. she also can’t escape the izuna drop loop in any way if she gets into an untechable knockdown in the corner (all her wakeup options are beat by throws). i don’t know, too many matches with tatsu. -_-

honda matchup is somewhat debateable also, since juri’s a fairly decent zoner, but every time i charge up a fireball and honda headbutts through it for a counter hit damage, i say fuck this matchup.

abel and fuerte are matches that can go either way, but of course, depending on the pattern of abel player, you can win or lose instantly. if you get knocked down and abel starts doing ambiguous marceilles roll shenanigans, i don’t think juri can get out of that at all. but if this is not the kind of mixup they go for, she might have a chance. fuzzy guard works on abel as well. ex tornado throw = rape, though. juri needs to poke and do block strings and frame traps, but this guy can just herp derp ex special move to beat everything.

for me, i started playing the game with fuerte, so i know what his options are as far as knockdown pressure and such, so it feels easier for me to know how to avoid his shenanigans. run-stop-rape is probably the only thing that’s hard (for any character really) to defend against. 5-5 sounds pretty good but the most accurate thing to say (ironically) would be you can’t really place fuerte on a tier list or have a matchup stat against him. know his options, figure out which options the player likes to resort to, and NEVER STOP MOVING.

as for this post:

i’ll write up on a couple more characters today…

42

i forgot to mention, rufus can grab you out of this if he decides not to ex messiah over it.

of course either of his ultras can punish this, so don’t do it when he has one =P

i will add this to my writeup. i got another thing i need to add to the rufus matchup

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just a disclaimer, everything i list in these posts are heavily match tested. at least about half of what i’ve written up is from the old thread (copypasta + some editing). i think anything i write up today is new though =P still based on experience.

ROSE

Matchup stat: 4-6 JURI MAKES YOU LOOK BAD

Why?

  1. Rose’s fireball game is good only if you try to match her fireballs. She has bad recovery on her fireballs (they’re easy to tell, more on this below) and they’re easy prey for dive kicks.
  2. Juri has ways to punish backdashes, and Rose is a happy backdasher.
  3. Rose has a pretty strong tick throw game which threatens Juri, but with good defense, Juri can deal more damage at the end of the day.

General info

  • Pretend like you’re going to match her fireballs – don’t ever throw a fireball first, since Rose’s reflect absorb move can give her massive meter and extra damage on her super. Once you put Rose in the mindset that you’re gonna try to zone her back and keep throwing fireballs, you can either dive kick over one of her fireballs (full followups) or make her come to you.
  • Be careful with meaty attacks when she has meter or ultra (obviously). Most average Rose players will try to herp-a-derp their way out by doing wakeup ex drill. Punish drills heavily. Either this, or when they don’t have meter, they will backdash on wakeup. Punish backdashes. Cover these bases then Rose is pretty much done until she gets her guaranteed 2nd chance with ultra.
  • If you end up jumping around too much you will eat cr.hp and soul throw to death. Stay grounded even though you might take chip from drills and get annoyed by slide and throw setups.

Counter

  • Fireball (soul spark): Jump forward + hk dive kick + followups. This will ALMOST always work. Her hp soul spark is the slowest to come out (29 frames) but the fastest to recover, so if you’re looking to jump over the actual projectile for the dive kick, it could mess with your timing.
  • Blocked drills: Spacing dependent, but if cr.lk or st.lk connects after blocking, follow it up. lp or ex drill is easy to punish with kara throw, but its harder to tell which drill she’s doing, than fireball. Same as her fireballs, the faster to come out, the slower they recover (lp, ex < mp < hp in recovery). If you can ex pinwheel between cr.mp and drill, that’s hp drill. This works btw, so you should do it if you can afford the meter.
  • Soul satellite: ex pinwheel is projectile-invincible, which means if Rose is not blocing while she has u2 activated, she will eat it and both of her orbs will disappear. If you get knocked down and Rose activates u2, look for an opening to get this out. If Rose activates u2 as a wakeup reversal option, make sure you weren’t dumb enough to try to cross up or otherwise throw a meaty that will get you hit (I’m serious, too many people go on the offensive without watching ultra meter). If you anticipate Rose activating u2 on wakeup at any time, ex mid or high fuhajin can nullify 1 orb (2 if you’re lucky, but hardly possible). Even better, if you release ex ground fuhajin at a time when Rose is trying to dash up or walk up to you, and both orbs miss the ground fuhajin, Rose will get hit and both orbs will be gone. OR YOU CAN JUST BLOCK FOR 5 SECONDS if you have the life.
  • Blocked slides: If they’re trying to space the slide correctly to go for a throw or kara throw, Juri’s cr.lk can avoid it, and on hit, you can time your own kara throw to counter her. Or you can ex pinwheel over the slide while it’s still active.

How the matchup should be approached

  • I always emphasize baiting, but for this matchup, it’s okay to be on the offensive until Rose has ultra. Then you start baiting. It may be an odd pace in matchup for some people, but it’s easy to get used to.
  • Don’t go crazy with pokes up close, since Juri’s best pokes are often cr.mp/mk and st.lk/mk, which can be beaten by Rose’s slide or cr.mp (stupid I know). It’s often better to finish your block strings quickly by cancelling into fuhajin kick (make sure Rose blocks it, otherwise you eat cr.mp xx drill). Stay out of her cr.mp range to poke safely, but ultimately you want to go in-and-out often.

Final notes/pieces of advice

  • Cover Rose’s wakeup options. She has 1) backdash, 2) ex drill, 3) soul satellite. Backdash can be punished by cross up, cr.lk OS ex pinwheel (I use it too, it’s great). ex drill can be baited by empty jumps on Rose’s wakeup then punished from close up. u2 has been mentioned all over this writeup, so go nuts.
  • Have good defense, since a good Rose player will frame trap you with block strings that end in cr.mp xx drill where cr.mp can lead to a counter hit. They will also go for a lot of throws to break up your defense, so stay solid. Learn to tech slide into throw (it’s an odd timing).

Most useful tools

  • Jump forward + hk dive kick over fireballs
  • Jump in/cross up, cr.lk OS ex pinwheel for backdash punish
  • kara throw setups

Tools to stay away from

  • Adding lk pinwheel to your block string. cr.mp xx drill can punish this.
  • Pokes within Rose’s cr.mp range. Don’t even try.
  • u1 can cause Rose to activate soul satellites and make both players’ ultras go to waste (Rose has an upper hand though, in this case). Just pick u2 and know your setups. ex dive kick is super easy to land on Rose.

Yeah, whatever he posted is mostly wrong… :arazz:

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Its fine Divine. I learned something new from your write up.

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EL FUERTE

Matchup stat: NUMBERS NEED NOT APPLY

Why?

  1. Player vs player. If you can’t deal with Elf, you will never win. If you learn to deal with him, you need to adapt to the player.
  2. With that said, Juri is weak against throws on wakeup. However, with some precaution and precise reading, you can get away from Elf’s wakeup pressure in more ways than one.
  3. Elf is just as bad on wakeup if not worse. You can bully him once you get him knocked down. If you look at it this way, it’s pretty even. Just gotta know specific ways as to how.

General info

  • Use fuhajin sparingly, since Elf’s speed-of-sound wall bounce can reach you while you charge. But preemptive releases can keep spazzing Elf’s in check.
  • You’ll want to rush Elf down and be cautious enough not to be countered by him going into knockdown and being pressured. Since you need to stay on him as you keep knocking HIM down, use u1.
  • Don’t be predictable with your wakeup moves. It only takes a very little steering on Elf’s end to make a tostada splash a non-crossup instead of a crossup, etc. A little randomness on top of being fully aware of his options would help.

Counter

  • Blocked splash: Sweep or cr.mk xx hk pinwheel if you can reach.
  • ex guac on wakeup to get away: Far st.mp will connect if he ends up behind you and you turn around in time. If you have u1 activated and Elf does this, connect more normals into a combo from there.
  • Crossup splash on Juri’s wakeup: lk pinwheel (gets away), or forward dash and try to sweep. lp/mp/hp counter all work against splashes, but splashes and Fajita Buster (throws standing opponents) look the same, so be wary.
  • Elf runs backwards on Juri’s wakeup: If they run backwards far enough, they’re often going for a tortilla propeller throw. Jump away. If they run very little and stop, often they’ll go for a meaty slide. Block and be ready to tech a throw, or ex pinwheel if the slide is mistimed. ex counter can work as well. If they have u1, be careful with jumping back or using counter.
  • Slides: Overheads go over slides if done at the right time. It can PUNISH slides if you do it late & safe enough.
  • u2: Pray to God you’re not pushing a button or touching Elf’s hitbox, and jump away. You can bait this with meaty overheads that will go completely over him when timed correctly.

How the matchup should be approached

  • When Elf has meter, he gains ex run and ex guac as wakeup options. ex run on wakeup can be beaten by meaty throw, and ex guac can be punished by bait and far st.mp as you turn around. If they’re dumb enough to use regular guac on wakeup, you shouldn’t be losing.
  • Switch up your approach as you see fit. For example, you can fight him air-to-air by using j.mp, but if they become airthrow-happy (beats j.mp), you might not want to jump anymore.
  • Forward throwing Elf into corner is very important, as you gain more opportunities to pressure and land j.mp more often against wall jump escape attempts. This is where you can win.

Final notes/pieces of advice

  • Meaty overhead is pretty free against Elf without meter.
  • Same as most characters, but especially since Elf doesn’t have good wakeup options (all very predictable), cover all those bases.
  • Know exactly what Elf is capable of, off of running forward and running backward. You can wake up and make a quick decision based on that. TRYING TO BLOCK IS ALSO AN OPTION.

Most useful tools

  • Meaty overhead
  • Far st.mp against ex guac on landing
46

don’t forget that once elf gets ultra 2 that most juri’s should not attempt to really pressure him on wake with safe jumps, etc. because elf ultra 2 is 3 frame start up and that shit will own juri very hard if he lands it. instead they should really try to bait with meaty fuhajins. other than that, pretty useful write up dj.

47

thank you!

also as i mentioned above, well-timed meaty overhead (different timing from when you wanna punish slides, i should’ve said that above) will go over wakeup u2. also goes over vega’s u2.

there’s 2 different meaty overhead timings

  1. overhead hits them as they wake up and immediately crouch. if they do any slide type of move, you fly over them completely.
  2. overhead is done at the same time as a slide type move from a distance. slide move is stuffed as juri climbs over with overhead.
48

ahhh ok. then i should learn the timing for both then.

49

Alright, I think I got all the write-ups into the first page so far.

Kouryuu: ALright I’ll leave the Abel write-up to you.

Metallicmike: I was gonna do that, but Ryuga offered to collect the info from the old thread (read the post above you) and seeing as I have 2 pages due tomorrow and finals next week I cant really help with that atm.
The write-ups are mainly so that you can find all the info you’re looking for easily. Look at the done write-ups in the first page, I put in the main write up and add any info found out or that might’ve been forgotten in the write-up (see D_Dollar’s notes to the write-ups), its not something set in stone.

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KOURYUU MY DUDE help me with abel =(

EDIT: i’ll do vega and dudley tomorrow~

51

having more than 1 write-up isnt an issue, Check Sagat’s section, I put in the 1st writeup done by EmblemLord then put in Divine’s as well as “player Change” aka another person’s POW.

the more the better if you ask me, I’m sure there’ll be info mentioned in each write-up that isnt in the other one so overall better MU info :]

52

ok i’ll submit mines in soon then. more info is good.

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Juri versus Adon - A Quick guide by…iQuick.

Jaguar Tooth: Standing MK beats HK Jaguar Tooth. If you time it late it will trade. If you are too early you will eat a foot. I’ve actually made it a habit to throw out St. MK whenever I see Adon jump off the wall, you cannot be punished for this at all. As far as I know you can do this to the EX version as well, and it is so much easier to punish because you already know he’s going to go full screen after he starts flashing.

Jaguar Kick Shenanigans: My go-to anti-air for jumping Adons is standing MK. It’s quick (like me) and retracts very quickly. The problem with this is that sometimes Adon will switch up on you, doing his JK after the arc of his jump to throw off your timing. Many players develop habits and patterns, so if you can sniff them out you can punish accordingly.
Warning: If you mess up and take a counter hit JK you will be combod afterwards. Other anti-air options are standing HP, crouching HP (Doesn’t trade sometimes.) and Cr mp. If Adon is jumping alot you can punish with a J.Mp -> J.MP -> Close St HP -> super (Or ex pin if you don’t have enough meter.) Watch out for adons Jumping Fierce though. Another good punish is J.MP -> Ultra 2. As far as I know, dive kicking will not beat Jaguar Kick, at best you’ll trade and the damage from a Counter Hit Jaguar Kick isn’t worth it.

Dealing with Rising Jaguar: Remember kids, Adon gets up 1/10th faster than the rest of the cast. Time your jump ins accordingly. That being said, a well placed J.HP will stop Adon from waking with a rising jaguar. I do believe that his EX version has invincibility during start up so at worst you’ll whiff and he’s burned a part of his meter. If the J.HP lands and the Adon is pressing buttons, he will inadvertently wake tech and might not be blocking properly, I would follow up with any combo that begins with Cr.Lk as it is your fastest attack and combos into anything you have. I like to do Cr.Lk -> Lk Senpu --> Kara throw. (It doesn’t always work, but in alot of cases it will put your opponent into the corner. If the Adon is mashing Rising Jaguar then you will get hit by this if you go with my LK. Senpu to Throw Gimmick) Then you can start with ambiguous cross ups, or whatever mix-ups you want.

Dealing with Adon’s pressure: Maybe it’s just me, but Adon has a weird jump that I sometimes can’t figure out. He has many mix-up options that begin with a crossed up J.Lk. Deal with the blockstring accordingly and punish if he does something stupid. (i.e. ending a block string with a DP.) Using counters against adon is a gamble, Jaguar Kick crushes armor, Jaguar Tooth also crushes armor. His best poke hits twice and I think will knock you out of your teleport. If Adon is in mid range you can poke at him with St. Mk and sometimes St. Hp if he gets a little too close. I’ve noticed that you can land at least one St. HP just because it has a weird animation and many players don’t see it coming. It’s also a bit faster than her St. Hk because of her twisting animation.

Using Fireballs: I would suggest that you only charge a fireball when you are at full screen or when you’ve done a hard knock down. And I would suggest only charging ONE fireball during that knockdown, remember, Adon gets up faster than everybody else so you will probably eat a DP because your leg will not have retracted from the air. If you’ve got him cornered a good combo is to start a blockstring with whatever you want and release a low fireball. After you’ve release this fireball you are at a frame advantage, you can Throw (Kara-throw too) after the fireball releases and many players will not tech this the first time because it’s such an awkward combo. Problems with this, a mashed out Rising Jaguar will stop you, but if you’re not obvious about it. Also, ending corner blockstrings (or even combos) with a Fuhajin charge won’t hurt you as I believe the blockstun is the same as the recovery.

Please, feel free to add anything to this. If any of my information is incorrect please let me know, I’m not 100% on my frame data and this is only just off the top of my head.

54

sorry guys i think im gonna be super busy today, i’ll try to post vega stuff if i find the time!

55

I put this long write up ^ and nobody even comments on anything?! (Good or bad)

Makin’ me sad over here guys.

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Quick, its a solid write up overall. Thanks for putting the time into writing it, im sure everyone who reads over it will appreciate it

57

Haha thanks. I wasn’t being like “OMG Comment PLZZZZ” I was just concerned that it had been a couple of days and nobody said anything at all. I was thinking that this thread was full of more life. I plan on writing more in the future, but that one was really just a wild hair type of thing.

58

It’s a good write-up, mostly. Using s.MK to stuff Jaguar crap should be pretty intuitive for Juri players, but it’s good to mention it anyway. However, I think it’s unnecessary to mention that mashed invincible reversals will beat things like frame traps and throw set-ups, since everyone should be well aware of that already.

I don’t know what this is supposed to mean. Teleports are always completely invincible until recovery.

Does this mean you charge more than one against certain characters?

59

Yes. In the corner I will charge two fireballs from time to time if I can manage to get a hard knock down. Most of the time being low and medium. If I can manage to somehow land a jump in on a standing opponent I will do a two fireball combo. If not I, release the medium at the same time I release the light one.

It’s awkward at first and doesn’t work alot of the time but well worth it if not only to just build meter. If you screw up and release the medium one you’ll probably get stuck in the mouth.

One more thing now that I’m on topic with fireball pressure: it might just be me, but I will sometimes get hit if I’m trying to use jab-> release as a blockstring. I’m not sure if it’s a frame thing or my bad execution though.

@teleporting maybe I’m thinking of something else. But I could have sworn that I took the hit from the second part of his roundhouse while I was doing a backwards teleport. Maybe I was in the corner. I’ll try it out tomorrow or something.

I’ll also look up the frame data for juri’s stuff. I’m posting this from my phone and too lazy to get off the couch.

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I often store 2 fireballs vs Sim in particular