All versions of Sagat’s tiger shots are vulnerable to being dive kicked on reaction. Juri can also keep up fairly well against both high and low tiger shots, and Sagat’s low tiger shot still does not nullify (!!) Juri’s lk or ex ground fuhajin release.
Juri can often deal more damage than Sagat can in similar situations. Juri’s pokes win over many of Sagat’s as well, diminishing Sagat’s options to st.hk or tiger uppercut to beat pokes.
Sagat is one of few characters Juri’s fuzzy guard j.mp works on. Juri can sometimes get jump-happy, which can be heavily punished by Sagat.
General info
You don’t have to be scared of Sagat anymore. This is not vanilla sf4. Sagat’s been nerfed to hell. However, against a player with a thorough knowledge of Sagat’s tools, it can still be a fair challenge.
Sagat hardly jumps in on anyone. Keep it that way by denying him with cr.mp.
cr.mk is pretty important as it can go under tiger knees and high tiger shots. Juri can also dash under high tiger shots, and counter low tiger shots towards Sagat and still have some frames for mixup (low tiger shot recovery is terrible).
Counters
High tiger shot: Crouch, dash under (timing is delicate), fuhajin kick / mk fuhajin release, reaction jump + hk dive kick (followups will not hit)
Low tiger shot: Same as above, plus counter towards Sagat for mixup, reaction jump + hk dive kick followups WILL HIT
Tiger knee: cr.mk if done in between an unclean blockstring (if it’s a true blockstring then you won’t get to move).
Forward hk: Crouch and punish quickly, otherwise you might eat shenanigan tiger uppercut
How the matchup should be approached
If Sagat wants to play the fireball game, sneak lk fuhajin release in between your fuhajin kicks and mk releases as you advance slightly. Sagat cannot nullify lk funajin releases, so he is forced to block or eat it if he tries to throw out another tiger shot. Also it’s easier to make him jump with it. Time for anti-air city.
Up close, st.mk is a very good poke in this match (along with many others), since crouching Sagat can often be vulnerable to both hits (his crouching hitbox is still enormous).
Final notes/pieces of advice
Due to fuzzy guard, and the fact that Sagat can deal huge damage off of reversals, I use u2 in this matchup. It won’t go to waste!
Most useful tools
cr.mp/hp anti-air
Counter towards Sagat on low tiger shots
Jump + hk dive kick tiger shots
Fuzzy guard
Tools to stay away from
Early lk crossup. Sagat is tall and he can retaliate before you connect your next normal on the ground.
*** Please chime in if you know other than what’s listed, my knowledge is especially limited in this matchup because there are practically no more Sagat players ***
that’s it for today guys, please add anything else that i haven’t mentioned.
before i start writeups on the following characters, do you guys agree:
juri vs vega = 6:4 to 7:3 vega’s favor. you poke you lose.
juri vs honda = 7:3 honda’s favor. charge fireball, eat headbutt.
juri vs abel = 6:4 to 7:3 abel’s favor. get knocked down, die.
i think these guys and Guile are her hardest matchups. please please contribute
If you see mistakes point them out.
6-4 is the matchup in Rose’s favor or not
Why?
1.)Juri has a few options to get passed Rose’s soul spark and soul spiral. (Dive kick on a late soul spark and you can pinwheel her off of a pushed soul spiral.)
2.)Do NOT get into the fire ball war with Rose. You will lose and you will help her gain meter quickly.
3.)Most of Rose’s pokes are better than juri’s.
-general info about how the MU goes-
-You are going to want to play somewhat in a passive agressive way against Rose in this match up. Make sure you use some of her footsie’s on badly spaced SS,Slides, and soul sparks.You should refrain from using Dive kick other then to punish soul sparks as well as not using pinwheel when Rose slides because she slide’s under and she gets a free SS or she can activate her orbs. Refrain from going into a Fireball war with Rose and if you do prepare to lose. When she starts throwing fireballs either absorb it or dash under them.
-Counters
-Soul spark you can do one of four things. You can sash under them with a follow up senpusha when you’re about 1 or 2 character distances away, counter from half screen and punish with senpusha or Fuhajin, Dive kick her, or if you time it right you can U2 her.
-Soul spiral: Up close you can throw her. When she is far doing a soul spiral you can use lk.Fuhajin to deal a small amount of damage to her.
-Backdashing: Sweep her
-how the MU should be approached-
-Do not Rush into trying to get to Rose. Your going to want to try to ease your way in, by dashing forward through fireballs or dive kicking to punish her far screen fireballs.
(Your Job)Once you get in, keep her on guard. While you are doing that throw in some fuzzy guards.
-If you get Rose into the corner keep her locked down as best as possible. If you run out of mix up options try to bait out Rose’s ex soul spiral and reset the situation in the corner.
-Don’t even try to beat Rose in a poke war because you will lose. Your best bet is to watch for badly spaced attacks and punish it with c.mk into senpusha. You can also use c.mk to space her away.
When she activates the orbs you can use Ex fuhajin to eat at least 1 or both of them but do NOT. Other wise just defend and watch out for a throw.
-final notes/pieces of advice-
I suggest that you dash under her fireballs from a safe distance to avoid chip damage from it. Unfortunately your going to have to take chip damage from her well spaced block strings. When you get her on the defensive side make her guess as much as possible to make dangerous mistakes and when you see her make bad spacing mistakes or desperate soul spirals to get out, either punish with a safe combo like c.mp into senpusha or jump HK activate Feng Shui Engine ending it with a combo. As a last piece of advice use you sweeps against her back dash, it will force your opponent to become more wary of backdashing.
Most Useful Tools:
-Dashing under fireballs to get close.
-Fuhajin to protect yourself from some fireballs and to destroy 1 or both or her orbs.
-Fuzzy guard
-Feng Shui Engine
Tools to stay away from:
-Dive kicks ( can get caught with soul throw or orbs.)
-Senpusha (unsafe on block and can be punished in numerous ways like c.mp soul spark into super.)
-Ultra 2
-general info about how the MU goes-
You have a good amount options to use against ELF. Your footsies are better than his and you have your projectiles to keep him at bay. Watch out for his ex run because it will go through your projectiles but can catch you when your using senpusha. Just refrain from jumping a lot and using dive kick unless you want him to leg throw you. Be wary of trying to get out of his mix up since the mix up itself is just as good or better then juri’s mix up.
-Countering certain stuff-
Tostada press: When you have been knocked down and El Fuerte does Tostada press for a cross up or over head, you can actually dash forward, do c.mk into senpusha.
Caramale sliding: If he slides to close you can throw him or you can even do Ex senpusha.
Forward Run: When he is running you can hit him with Senpusha if he does not do tostada press and if he does Tostada press it will trade.
Backward Run: You can actually sweep him on a backward run but watch out for Ex backward run because he can get a free command throw on you.
-How this match up should be approached.
In this match up you want ELF to come to you and you are going to want to punish the unsafe things to do and you want to keep him at bay making him guess on how he is going to get in since he can only do real damage up close. When you get him pinned down any where just refrain from jumping or he will do his gucamole leg throw, but you are going to want him to use it as a desperate attempt to get out so you may punish it.
-final notes/pieces of advice-
You should mostly keep ELF away while watching his meter so he doesn’t get a chance to use his command throw on you for free. Using either ultra would work in this match depending on how the ELF player plays. Remember to dash out of a tostada press other wise block and throw or just block and watch for an opening.
Most Useful Tools:
-Fuhajin (To keep him at bay.)
-Senpusha (keep him wary of running.)
-Air mp to punish his unsafe jumps.
-Ultra 1 or 2 will work fine.
-Footsies
Tools to stay away from:
-Jumping
-Fuzzy guard (It won’t be too helpful in this match up since he can punish it with Leg throw.)
-Dive kicking
i cannot even see how you came to the conclusion that juri vs ELF is even slightly even. juri gets absolutely gangbanged by him on wake up. you didn’t even suggest on how to escape wake situations other than “dash forward” which can and most likely will be baited and punished by his sweep. you didn’t even give input on how to take advantage of ELF horrible wake up options such as safe jump > grab to beat EX run, or safe jump to BAIT his EX leg throw. like i understand that you want to help but you need more knowledge than that…seriously. and her can be punished fuhajins by his Q bomb, ex run, a lot of crap that you did not list.
and i also like like how you listed “footsies” but through your whole write up you didn’t even list which pokes were most useful in certain situations.
I dont think Abel is too horrible…5.5/4.5 Abels favor…IMO at least. Vega I cant imagine being any worse than 6/4 honestly, but being fair, i need to play against some good Vega’s with my Juri.
Now on to the Honda matchup:
In short, i believe the honda matchup is 5.5/4.5 in Honda’s favor simply due to damage output. I know everyone and their brother disagrees with me on this, but i play against a honda who has been compared to mike ross (by lamerboi and ricky) on a daily basis. I can post a full write up if yall want in the coming days, its kinda late and i think im gonna knock out for the night soon lol. honestly, there is NO way this matchup is any worse than 6/4…MAX.
I don’t think there is much merit to discussing matchup numbers or even whose favor they might be in. This is a thread for discussing and compiling strategies, not character rankings.
i agree. except some people post useless write ups ( look at genistar write ups )that might give juri users the wrong way to go about some match ups. like if you gonna try to help out juri users at least know what you are talking about. don’t say stuff like “rose pokes beat out juri pokes” but don’t even list the specific poke. that’s just unacceptable for juri users like myself that plan to hit up tournaments just to lose because we been fed half-assed advice.
I’d just point out there’s no need to get offensive. Nobody can write a perfect write-up, and having a write-up for a character is better than not having one. Of course, we will review and change the match-up infos, if someone with more experience (or new knowledge) updates one. But seriously, if you disagree with someones writeup, you should just write a better one, not complain that they took their time to share their knowledge. They’re just trying to help. Although, I do appreciate your concern for having accurate info here
On the issue of the matchup numbers (in favor or not), I’d leave them out. Just spawns useless tier list discussions that aren’t really related to match up strategies (we are looking to beat them with Juri, not counterpick). If you absolutely must have them, maybe simplify it to Against / Even / Favorable, that’s much easier to agree on than the numbers.
maybe the way my words came out while i’m typing displayed some type of aggression towards genistar? that’s not really the case at all. i’m just saying it makes no sense giving juri users misinformed advice. i’m sorry if i offended anyone though. btw, i contributed a write up of juri vs ken. hopefully that will help juri users who may be experiencing difficulty towards him. and deice, i’m just trying to make sure we go into battles knowing how to handle ourselves.
I’m currently going through the old MU thread, collected the info and credited the people all the way up to page 10 in about 35 mins. Need to go to uni now, but after I come home, give me…about 3-5 hours and I’ll have all the info collected, and I’ll PM it to EternalBlaze.
i dont know what you guys are doing with these massive writeups so early, i think its best we get whats in the previous thread first and add it here.
I personally like to know the facts of what you can do in the matchup first before theorycrafting the matchup on paper, DJ divine lists rufus as being 6-4 his favour when the matchup is clearly in our favour given you know all your options.
Thats what i DO want to know, my options, what can i do to beat what and any clear cut through tactics i can apply in the match.
Example, one of the writeups mentions guile, gives me a wealth of information on zoning game which is always going to be situational but no mention of some important facts like; crouching causes back fist to whiff so you can punish with a med attack into pinwheel, punishing cr.hp with ex-pinwheel, punishing the blocked first hit of a sweep with either focus attack absorb second hit xx attack xx backdash or expinwheel, beating wakeup flash kick with j.faps and using ex counter to avoid being chipped with sonic hurricane on your wakeup (can also divekick in the air to clear a AA sonic hurricane).
I agree actually. Usually you already know how to approach a match, and just want to know the shortlist of tools. Like if cr.mk makes something important whiff, or that theres a easier / better damage combo you could be using, or whats punishable with what, counters to specific stuff etc. This shortlist is also easiest to agree on, since its pure simple facts.
The full write-up is an added bonus of course, and important for overall strategy and if you have no idea where to start in the match (useful to me for some match-ups :P).
Its a good thing to do the write-ups too, but I’d pay most attention to the hard facts first. I wouldn’t mind if for some characters we leave the full write-up for later and just gather the data we have in the old thread.
I agree, numbers are very subjective and not useful to a MU thread. I also like straightforward information listed (punish, OS, what works…) instead of long match-up text.
On top of my head for characters that have been mentioned:
Rufus:
Once you score a knockdown you can cr.MK on wake-up, it makes EX Messiah miss or only hit 1~2hit then miss (go over Juri) and you can punish on the other side.
Rose:
You can safejump or safe LK on wake-up and OS both with block or EX Senpusha. [media=youtube]XlxgTk9Wf_c[/media] (OS video).
U2 is easy to land with FuzzyGuard. High EX Fuhajin on wake up prevents Soul Satellites (eats both Orbs).
Cammy:
You can punish her DP with EX Divekick (or other divekicks).
Abel:
I remember testing all his reversal options are throwable.
Vega:
FuzzyGuard (nj.HK > j.MP xx Divekick) works. In the corner the last hit of EX Divekick will not connect. If he likes to Cosmic Heel(-1f) > Throw you can use st.MK (airborne on first frame) instead of teching the throw. You can OS it with MK > Throw pressed almost at the same time.
Guile:
Vulnerable to cross-ups on wakeup.
Can cr.MK under EX Sonic Boom (maybe easier than dashing under on reaction), or cr.HP if your MK is being held.
Instant Divekick over Sonic Boom. Can be made safe when a Guile walks behind a slow SB.
[media=youtube]aqkAeZSWVaI&feature=BF&list=PL490753F46AD454CC&index=2[/media] (Hitboxes, helps fighting SonicBoom and FlashKick imo)
