some older insights on binds from older players. Remember that back then macros were called binds. Macros mean a totally different thing now.
alex\larry both didn’t like it. I don’t think anyone else did either, funny part is that you see some people in there magus1234 and even valle iirc mention how bad the scene needs a standard and this was 4 years ago.
thread is mostly about people cheating with turbo but the use of binds is touched upon a good bit.
Well, even in older games, there were some concerns about button binding as far as I remember. Fanatiq used a double punch bind for MvC2 and was forced to give up Assist 1 for it. There is probably a way to padhack a PS2 controller to work with the Dreamcast so that he could have both, but I have no idea if that option was ever taken.
The way I see it is that there’s some sort of line between execution that should be rewarded and execution that’s necessary for basic functioning of a game/character control, and that a button bind for the latter isn’t necessarily the worst thing in the world (most fighters nowadays have in built macros for multiple attack buttons) while a button bind for the former is pretty terrible. However, figuring out exactly what that line is is pretty difficult for most games.
Jesus…I told myself that I wouldn’t post here again but I couldn’t resist. Do you realize how illogical that sounds? There will always be beginners whether the execution ceiling in fighting games is available or not. Its like starting a sport like boxing but wanting to spar with only pro boxers.
Besides, you can learn something even from fighting beginners. How about handicapping yourself not to destroy them as quick as possible and just punishing their mistakes? You will only develop bad habits if you allow those habits to develop in the first place. A certain amount of dedication is required for everything. Even for fighting games.
There’s nothing illogical about it. Of course there will always be beginners. That doesn’t matter to me. What matters to me is maximizing the number of beginners that will eventually get to the level where they provide me with a challenge, and getting them to that level as fast as possible. The effort that they expend to do this, or lack thereof, is of zero relevance to me.
I’m not starting a sport like boxing. I’ve been playing since SF2. It’s more like being a pro boxer and wanting to spar with only other pro boxers.
Sure, handicapping myself works. Letting them use tools to overcome our execution gap also works. Both give me a challenge. I have no preference one way or another. The only thing that matters is that they level me up for competitive play. If they want to use tools, I just can’t think of a reason why I would want to stop them.
EDIT: This is getting a bit off-topic. The thread is not about beginners using tools to get to intermediate levels. It’s about advanced players using tools to get to godlike levels. To clarify my stance:
One final bit on this since I have been informed that I may have offended some people with my personal opinions on this.
Had a long talk with Pat (@pattheflip) over email on this and basically It’s made me have to concede that the issue here is more than just “she doesn’t play fighting game so she has no business at a tournament.”
More importantly, the community is growing to be more than just “a bunch of dudes getting together to play games” and organizers are now encountering more and more challenges when it comes to deciding on rules and regulations for the community. The whole Noel thing was just one challenge, this thing with Full Schedule’s stick is another.
Now to swing things back on topic. As Preppy has stated, there does need to be a line in the sand drawn somewhere with this (as drawing no line whatsoever could simply lead into a slippery slope situation). The question is “where” should that line be drawn.
Personally, I go with the “if the game doesn’t allow it” ruling since it seems to be the easiest to define and therefore easiest to enforce. Sure you can say that an all-button controller like the HitBox will allow something similar, but at the end of the day, it’s still two buttons/microswitches being pressed instead one that happens to invoke 2 inputs that the game does not allow to be mapped to one button.
Is this what we are actually discussing… because if not then I am fine to leave it be but it seemed like that is all we should really care about right…
Look at it like this… Lets say Stone/Kenmastersx shows up to the Curly South with the exact same stick…But he is a Zero player… Now his story is something about he is only using it for tk’ed M/H lighting for full screen for pressure… He is not using it for zoop zoop loops promise…
How much would we need to discuss this shit now… Please tell me people… PLEASE.
So reading through this, what sticks out to me the most is an inability for people to accept evidence and would rather just run with the falacy.
FS didn’t have perfect FADCSeismo pressure after having the buttons removed from the stick. Obviously there was 0 chance that this was down to him being completely mindfucked within the previous 12-18 hours, having to play the runback against Champ who was one of the bigger people talking shit about him and being pretty damn high up at a Major with lots of big names. Obviously his execution was not 100% because he was forced to remove his “Macros”, nothing to do with anxiety/stress. (The fact is he proved he doesn’t use the Binds for any of his Seismo stuff)
(Also the “Macros” thing bugs me untold amounts. People throwing around the term “Macro” like they know what it means = facepalm)
Anyways, a precedant needs to be set and I kinda agree with Shoultz. If you are willing to ban out FS’ stick then you have to ban out other controls that give you access to mulitple movement options, ie: Pads. That is unrealistic as it removes a decent-sized portion of the playerbase.
So then the obvious rebuttal to that is banning anything that uses a button for movement as that is causing the issue. However then we’re banning Hitboxes/Keyboards/(arguably)D-pads. Again, that’s pretty unrealistic.
Last option (I’m sure there are more but this is as far as I’m willing to type out at the moment) - Allow FS’ stick and then attempt to weather the oncoming shitstorm.
Biggest problem I see is you can’t ban FS’ stick without any issues with other devices and you (Arguably) can’t allow it due to the crazy shit people will come up with.
Caught between a rock and a hard place. (Stick and a U/L bind? xD )
so fullschedules stick is legal now with ceo. keits already gave the green light for ufgt. lets see if other majors, including evo, follow suit. i wouldnt mind a statement from larry, that in hindsight he should have let the FS situation rock, and shouldnt have changed his rules mid tourney. not that it affected fullschedules execution, but it would be a nice hindsight nod of “my bad”.
when exactly did he show the same seismo game as he did against champ earlier
im curious bookmark the vid
i think hes being facetious
For Street Fighter, you should only allow a fixed 6 button stick, like in the arcades.
For other games, try to stick to that as closely as possible and that’s all
Fuck you if you play on a pad or anything weird, learn to use a stick or don’t compete
Without an even playfield, I don’t see how the FG scene can evolve and those discusions will happen more often
I wonder if the PC game scenes have these discussions about trackball mice or whatever.
It doesn’t seem that easy. Which of these is ‘allowed by the game’?
And, do you think that everyone will agree on where the line is drawn?
FWIW: Though there are other drawbacks with it, “easiest to enforce” is definitely tournament provided controllers.
TOs and FGC leaders need to make it clear what’s allowed and what’s not. Seriously looking at getting a hitbox right now lol.
Godsgarden style
A fixed stick for every player, simulating an arcade cabinet and that’s all
Seriously, if you really need more than 6 buttons and a stick to really play well, you’re not that good of a player
All respect to players like Vangief or SnakeEyez, but if Desk can do standing 720s with Hakan, you can learn to do your 360s on a stick
the FG cant evolve cause of fuckboy shit like what you just stated
if you are worried about losing to someone because of a simple adjustment in apparatus especially a pad
you. arent. that. good
its a fucking game not job/career or any other high endeavor training
not every one played on old cabinets all day with old soda and pizza crumbs lodged in between the buttons
get over it and step up
or are you really thinking about the fact that they might be smarter then you and if they can do what they want to do
they would beat you a majority of the time
I don’t care either way, my arcade days were over long before the arcades themselves
I don’t enter tournaments and even if I did I wouldn’t be mad at losing to someone who used macros or turbo
I’m just stating that in game where you already have 30+ different characters to choose from is varied enough for the players, you don’t have to create another layer of variety based on what kind of input methods they use, some of them offering unfair advantages
And why am I replying to a moron that doesn’t understand my point? I was talking about FG “evolving”, as in, become more and more professional like others eletronic sports, hence, it’s not a game anymore, you asshole, it’s a job/career for all those involved!
I’m sure the scene would be very different if the people who organized and ran events actually got paid.
This is a bad argument from a lot of angles. You can easily own the game without owning a console or default controller. Many tournament players do. Doesn’t everyone have access to an arcade stick on the free market?obviously you meant “if someone buys a console and the game, the rules should be built around them” because you consider a stick “extra” but this is completely arbitrary. Putting that aside it is still a bad argument because:
1.You’re now forced to have a standard console alienating the majority of users for no reason.
No matter which standard you choose, the controller is terrible.
The game is designed for an arcade stick.
You can only make so many consessions in the interest of fairness. It would be the most fair to keep tournament players in cages when not performing so we can be sure that there is no cheating or collusion, but that would be almost as stupid as making an Xbox pad standard.