playing the old head way and having a old head way of thinking is exactly why it isnt a career for most people.
do you realize that their are only a handful of people most in the top 8 that can even remotely make it based on playing FG
its a niche audience.
and when you say shit like fuck pad players you are fragmenting the pool of players even more.
how can you dismiss diversity in one hand and then talk about evolving into a “career”.
thats some of the stupidest shit ive ever heard.
if you cut the meat in half then you cut interest in which this could never become more marketable.
you have false resolve stemmed from a slighted view of tradition and its sad to see the equivalent of a bigot speak on this.
its all trivial nonsense.
the best people win regardless of their apparatus. wong still wins, the koreans still win.
and i would think that people should be able to pick whoever they want in the game, worry about yourself and how you can win.
not about how someone else and their apparatus goes about picking their character
regardless of whether you know it or not
people pick/play fighting games for the aesthetic look as their primary view then they consider competing
Proberly going to hate myself for this but the same video that everyone has spoken about. The one where he shows Seismo-FADC-Seismo being done by his hands.
^thank you i wasn’t going to go through listening all the way because the synopsis was widespread already except that
watching now
that “rhythm” hes talking about obviously has to adjusted for more frenetic paces
the fadc can be cancelled with straight up instead of up forward
weird way but eh good shit to him
http://evilgeniuses.gg/Read/293,Hot-Button-Issue-Duckie-Quacks/
*
Duckie: It’s really not something you can just ban. If you ban someone from having two extra jump buttons on their stick, then you have to ban most pads because they’ll have an analog stick and a d-pad., meaning they also have two full sets of directionals. Some games also bind some commands to the right stick, or even full macros (like specials or supers). You can’t ban anything that uses one device to trigger two directions because then no one can use arcade sticks.*
curleh mustache, ceo and ufgt have all accepted FS stick as “legal” due to logical reasoning. 3\4 tournaments thus far have accepted it with EVO being the only ones to ban it. Any argument you can make against his stick, you can very likely make the same argument against pads.
and since pads aren’t going anywhere, neither should FS’s stick.
how should we determine rules and standards? historically, we just followed w\e EVO said due to them being the biggest tournament but as a over decade has passed by, that kind of system has allowed for some really questionable rules. Should we just go by what MOST tournament accept and have that be the FGC standard? it is after all the FGC, and evo is part of the FGC. It isn’t THE FGC nor can it represent the FGC solely.
shin blanka said it best, no one person or tournament can be bigger than the FGC. We should come to rules logically as a community.
I really want there to be a standard, players have been asking for it for YEARSSSS now, how can we make that happen? I don’t want the FGC to turn into an arms race trying to create X device for maximum input gain.
bottom line regarding his stick he didn’t use those buttons for any of the shit he did
and they are used for 1 technique that is situation based among one of his characters
its a non issue he didnt even use viper ball from what i saw
It doesn’t really matter what he used them for. They could be part of his basic execution or there just for show and either way it wouldn’t matter. It only matters that there’s consistency between standards applied to various devices.
I cant get with that all the way (though i do see what you are saying)
because thats ignoring his intentions and hes the first to really do this in a visible sense.
he modded his stick with the expectation to do those very precise maneuvers in that game with that character
and he still has to go through the progressions to perform said maneuver
i have not (no offense if he does play other shit) seen full scheldule in another game playing with that stick with heightened expectations
now he may…IDK im not at his weeklys but yeah its for marvel and for certain techniques that are HIGHLY situational
add that on to the fact that you cant really or there is no real reason to mod pads like that
plus the community didnt have a standard before this and they dont have one now even after the fact, because CEO is going to allow it.
you dont have a meeting of the minds
eh to me as long as you dont have the equivalent of a IAHVB button or a instant EWGF Button you good
The article from Duckie to me is kinda dumb. A tool-assistance technique resulting in greater winning percentage seems illegitimate in most other competitive environments. It’s not an “I win” button, it’s a “I win more often” button. Wiz had no stake in the matter and his immediate response was That’s Fucked Up: assuming that people needed to lose to FS to have an opinion is pretty weird.
It’s simply not true that joystick diagonals are fully equivalent to a UF button. I assume Duckie has looked at the underside of a Competitive stick before, and so I’m baffled why he’d compare the two. They’re two different beasts: you really don’t need to forcibly compare two different implementations. I’m sure somebody can set up a money match where he gets to press diagonal on a joystick 1000 times and I can press my UF button 1000 times, and we’ll bet money on whether or not he can match my accuracy.
Likely? I have yet to hear anybody explain to me how any pad is doing physical binding.
The logical reasoning you’re referring to stemming from Keits, where he cannot explain why direction+direction is fine, but direction+action is bad? That’s not logic, that’s prejudice.
I’ll ping Keits. His decision to me is haphazard and influences the scene negatively.
No physical binds, no controller-based macros or turbo.
The only counter-argument to that I’ve seen is Keits’, but he has to throw his logic out the window to allow for the “well umm for no reason that I will detail we are not going to allow button + direction” exception.
Enforcement: Expect people not to be jack-asses. If you get caught, ggpo, enjoy your permaban. We’ve always had this problem, so enforceability has never really been any type of gating factor on assigning logical thought-through rules.
Why would you own the game if you don’t own the console? It seems to me that the circumstances leading to such a situation are unlikely to apply to many people.
No, what I am saying is that the “fairest” system is one that puts the lowest number of requirements on competitors. What is the minimum I need to play this game? I need a console and a copy of the game. The console comes with a controller. Ergo: every player who has a console and the game also has the controller. Some of them may also have a stick, but the number of people with console + game will always be higher than the number of people with console + game + stick.
Furthermore, you get additional fairness from this setup because TOs also have the controllers. Potentially people don’t even need to bring their own input device at all. TOs can provide the controllers that came with the consoles they already bought. Having TOs provide the controllers is also likely to be the only realistic way to guard against hardware mods. We know FS had a modded stick because he made it obvious. It won’t always be easy to detect. It’s not hard to make such a mod undetectable from the outside. It’s not like you can open up everyone’s stick before the tournament just to check.
Does not compute. If we have no problem alienating users who use something like FS’s stick, why would we have a problem alienating users of any other stick?
Your opponent will have an equally terrible controller, which is the point. The quality of the input device we end up with is irrelevant, because everyone ends up using the same thing. It’s all relative. A regular stick might be terrible for doing links compared to one with turbo, but that doesn’t matter if we ban turbo.
This is a non-argument. We already do things with the game that it wasn’t designed for. Do we ban infinites in UMVC3 because the game wasn’t designed for them? Do we ban plinking in SF4 because it abuses the input handling?
No it wouldn’t. This would provide an unfair advantage to casual players. You’d have to cage every player, as well as every potential player.
But then, when all is said and done, aren’t we all in a cage? A cage called life.
I agree that making Xbox pad standard is stupid. Obviously PS3 is the way to go.
It seems duckie and I have some overlap in our opinion on this issue:
in SNK games they had a command button where you would press and the character would do a sequence for moves making up a high damage combo
it accounted for range and the proper hit confirm and made adjustments
i think when people get to that point we need to question the attachments of their device.
I agree with the last statement of the above post
Duckie’s last statement remains a poisoned-well argument and is garbage.
I like Florida people. I want FullSchedule to win lots of games. I also am complaining: his stick and anything like it (physical binds) should be banned.
If Duckie wants to point out how I was outplayed here, I’m all ears. Otherwise it’s a pretty pointless comment.
if you want to troll me in every thread so can I. 1st off your a little bitch, you complain about the stupidest fucking shit ever. IF you want to keep trolling me in every thread so will I. Fucking dick head
^-- off-topic flaming. mod edited to behind a SPOILER tag to reduce noise
The thing to me is, execution is a part of the genre. That requirement for it means that there is always a chance for a move or action to fail and this helps make fights exciting. It’s similar to an RNG in other games, except that you can overcome this “chance to fail” through practice. It means that instead of being ruled by numbers, success or failure is now up to a players skill, dexterity as well as their composure under pressure.
Stuff that makes execution easier kinda goes against that.
By this logic online lag is great, because it adds a chance for moves to fail. I’m no Brawl player. Did tripping actually make that game more exciting to play?
So having a chance for your move or action to fail is a “good thing”, but being able to reduce that chance is also a “good thing”? I am having trouble reconciling the two ideas. If variance in performing actions is good then practice is bad. If consistency in performing actions is good then the execution barrier is bad.
I’m just going to take a guess here, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but maybe what you’re actually saying is that it’s good when games punish people who don’t practice execution with variance? So it’s actually about “work” or “effort”?
I think there’s a difference between a button bind/macro assisting in the type of execution at the top level of play versus assisting in the execution of the basic functioning of a character. Like, something I would consider to be the basic functionality in controlling a character is just being able to press 3P or 3K. You still see top level players occasionally screw up ultra inputs and get an ex move instead. I’m guessing part of that is just due to inaccurate button presses, and I’d be perfectly fine if a player who couldn’t consistently just press all three buttons at the same time to be able to bind them to a single button (or if they just didn’t want to worry about it for whatever reason during a specific match), even if it were’t a built in macro in SFIV. This is because I don’t consider the ability to be able to press 3P or 3K an integral part of what playing Street Fighter IV means. I mean, sure, it’s a part of it, but I think letting people not have to worry about pressing 3P or 3K and instead get to focus on other aspects of the game is a fine trade off.
At the opposite end is any complicated combo in any combo heavy game. I would be against a macro for a full combo because I think doing the full combo is an interesting part of execution for the game, especially if the game has less optimal combos for the same character that are easier to do. Like a simple example is Ryu in SFIV. One of the better combos after a focus attack is f.HP, c.HP xx shoryuken or tatsu. However, if you don’t think your execution is up to snuff at that particular moment, there’s always f.HP, close MK xx shoryuken or tatsu. I would consider that to be an interesting execution dilemma that’s worth retaining.
And then there’s some more grey areas that my own definition doesn’t cover where a “basic function” of controlling a character is also the same kind of execution demanded of top level players, most of which include grapplers. What I would consider “basic functions” of most grapplers is also an integral part of their execution, i.e. being able to do 360s quickly and on demand, and standing 720s in extreme cases.