then allow the joystick players to mod their sticks so they can have the same advantage as pads/hitboxes.
I agree with keits that banning pad players alienates a good majority of the scene and I wouldn’t want that to happen. However, I think some sort of even playing field between devices would benefit the scene much more. That even playing field does not exist for whatever reason. IMO, its probably because it hasn’t been brought up in discussion to a lengthy degree. The playing field was even during the arcade days but the jump to console has allowed certain devices advantages due to developer oversight.
Hypothetically, if you’re going to have an even playing field between the 3 devices, its going to be a hybrid joystick hitbox. If pad players are allowed 2 joysticks and 10 buttons, shouldn’t it only be fair for joystick users to have 2 joysticks and 10 buttons too? then its technically fair that hitbox players can have 2 sets of joystick inputs with 10 buttons because that would be the equivalent for them. Then after all that, all 3 devices are now equal or as equal as possible. We kind of absorbed a fucked up situation and there is no real good way to fix this other than to allow some type of modding to be done to joysticks\hitboxes.
Pads stay as is and stick\hitbox users can mod their stick to no further than what a pad is capable of.
You are seeing advantages where there are none because of a physical number count. A pad that is unmodified can’t do anything other than what the game will allow. Having 10 buttons doesn’t mean anything when the most you can do with them is the same as an 8 button stick, and two analog sticks don’t mean anything when the right analog stick does absolutely nothing in most games and the game does not accept inputs from the D-Pad and the left stick at the same time, making it pointless to use both simultaneously. A pad does not gain anything over an 8 button stick.
more buttons = more types of option selects that become possible. Especially in marvel. Having 2 more buttons on a pad = 2 more buttons you can use for something else. TRUST ME, I can find a use for them no problem in umvc3. Everyone in my area runs an 8 button marvel layout, except for me, there are tons of uses they can get out of 2 extra ones and it changes based on what teams you play and how you prefer to play too. Doom prefers certain binds over magneto and it varies throughout the cast so on a 10 button layout there is no compromise between inputs on characters. Doom can have his button and magneto can have his own button. Again, only 1 small quick reference I can do with it.
while you’re right using 2 joysticks at the same time, not registering together, you’re wrong in the fact that its pointless. You can use 2 joysticks to move your inputs around faster than you normally would be able to on a joystick. A pad is capable of hitbox type joystick inputs, its possible to do 2f directional inputs on a pad because of 2 joysticks by using both them sequentially one right after the other. They won’t register on the same frame like in mvc3 but they will register as fast as they would on a hitbox simply because of having 2 joysticks. Since no one plays like this, its hard to understand how fucked it could be but those inputs are legit possible. They exist.
People should be able to bind their input device however they want. I can put a custom layout on my stick. I can play with a variable number of buttons on my stick. Why couldn’t I bind it as I please? Anyone complaining about this is no better than a scrub pad player whining that the only reason he lost is because his opponent is using a $150 stick.
95% of the time I am arguing against people using the term “scrub” incorrectly in these forums, but in this case I am comfortable saying that people whining about their opponents’ input devices are scrubs of the highest order.
Edit: I feel that the reaction from Keits was the correct one.
except for in the original video posted he shows himself doing seismo fadc cancel the same way everyone saw it, not using the directional buttons, because he never used them in the first place. he just practiced it forever until he mastered it, and the way his buttons are setup also make it a bit easier because h and s are right next to each other, so you dont have to do middle finger + thumb, or pointer finger+thumb when doing the focus attack, just pointer finger+middle finger for everything.
dont bother comparing anything current to mvc2, and that era of fighting games, because since sf4 everything has changed.
except doesnt vangief use dpad and analog to pull off his fancy walking and standing 720s? if that is correct, which is what i thought, thats a pretty ridiculous advantage that he shouldnt have access to.
So pad players can’t use 3P or 3K buttons? Seems unfair. Pressing all 3 P or K buttons on a 360 pad is way harder than a joystick.
I think in reality we have to take these things on a per game (and possibly per device) basis. I realise this is potentially a lot of work to figure out, but it’s a group thing, not like any one person needs to test everything themselves. Just like with game brokenness, if something really gives a winning advantage, people will switch to it and it’ll become a/the standard or it will get banned if it actually negatively impacts the game(s).
They still can because the game lets them. It’s not a physical button bind in that case.
Looking at games on a case-by-case basis should maybe be a thing though. For Marvel 3, at least, I can’t see any major, banworthy issues. Banning button binds just because the game doesn’t let you do certain binds on in-game button config seems silly.
The only “fair” system that confers no executional advantage to anyone is to force every player to use the standard-issue controller that comes with every console.
this whole thing is a slippery mess. i agree with Keits’ sentiment but what qualifies as “impossible” behavior? kara moves, p-linking (especially with select/back) don’t seem intentional and the whole SOCD thing (blocking in both directions) either. most of these games were played on arcade cabinets so lap sticks are seen much more naturally. controllers are the norm for any console game so they’ve been allowed at tourneys as well. i agree that there needs to be some line drawn but this is such a gray area.
modifying sticks/pads brings money into the FGC and at the same time allows disabled players to have a chance to compete as well. if it’s all down to execution then what’s best will be used by the top players barring any that have sponsorships with controller companies. they’re there to win money so they will use what’s best and what they’re comfortable with. this can be abused and take out interesting concepts, like impressive combos or setups, and actually hurt the game or scene.
allowing different controller setups at different events will be interesting to see how this whole thing develops. it may be too late for EVO but other majors who haven’t decided yet on what is/isn’t allowed can help shed some light on the variables we can’t see right now. this might end up being small or it could make it so interest is lost in fighting games and companies would have to fix what’s considered exploitable, through software.
this thread has got to be the most fucked up thread ive ever read on srk
people victim blaming and saying we’re diverse so we should continue to allow human waste to attend tournaments because they are good at video games
people saying that fs was cheating because he was “sisemoing better than marlinpie” even after the OP posts a video that a) shows how he does it and b) explicitly states he doenst use his binding to help with siesmo cancels
and ppl wonder why fgcs never caught on, maybe its because we’re a bunch of retards
First off I was not comparing anything to anything. I am saying to paul that he needs not think about if this should be legal or not because it is clearly OD. There are all kinds of examples and I chose a game he is very familiar with and posed the hypothetical to see if he still sees a grey area. Do you play anime games that do not dash with attack buttons and only directional’s? In an game like that you would be able to pull off stupid low to the ground IAD’s… Not as OD I know…
Second I can do 35 ahbv’s straight with no problem but if I am playin Mixup or Jeff or Paul I will get 2 at most because of nerves… I add a button like that… 35 straight.
All I am sayin is yes in training he is doing fine… against champ he did not do well without the buttons. Watch the vids and listen to the commentary and watch for seismos. It is all there and is all plain as day… Those buttons are OD’ed as fuck and there is no way around it.
Yes he has trained and is very good, but he says in the vid he only has the buttons to get him above human percentage… he wants to be at 100% execution or as close with as many helpers as possible.
That means when he is playing champ, HE IS USING THE FUCKING BUTTONS FOR EVERYTHING THEY HELP HIM WITH. If not why have the buttons. Yahll are stupid as fuck if you do not see the stupid in his statement.
“Trust me I only use it for a technique that is so hard that I need this button for it… Nothing else guys… I am not cheater… I am pure skill with helper buttons… Sure the button can help with like 5 other techniques but I did not use it for that because I have not trained it enough yet… Promise…”
Am I the only one to say Get That Shit The Fuck Outta Here??? His stick has 12 buttons with start and select any pro should ask what the fuck they just played against, because they are not going to be extra home buttons for sure…
It is a pros job to even the playing field for all competitors… No one but champ or neo or rog or wong or chrisG have enough invested in this scene to make sure people are not trying ridic shit like this. I would not say something even if the set was close because I have a much different life to lead after the tourney, those people live this shit and they do not run around with shit like that.
Just imagine Neo or Chris S or Champ having a 1 and 3 binided button for even cleaner movement and even cleaner confirms and tri jumps and tac resets. Marlin Pie playing with that kind of button… you people amaze me sometimes…
FS doesn’t use those buttons for regular play. Those buttons are for a specific trick, the trick being a viper ball TK cancel. Its not used for rapid seismos, its not used for fadc seismos. I play with the guy 2-3 times a week, I know what he’s capable of.
the 2nd time around playing champ FS played differently because champ got in his head. FS is relatively new player and while his player skill is quite high, handling FGC politics isn’t a strength of his. Having to deal with all that bullshit put him in weird space, which would happen to any relatively newer stronger player, and he played worse because of it. It has 0 to do with the buttons he was using as he was using the same in both matches.
Saequo, I’m beginning to think that this is above your understanding. Why don’t you talk to ricky walker about the way FS plays, he will tell you derrick doesn’t cheat on anything and he’s your city best umvc3 player. Hell even watch the video so he can SHOW you what its for. I help teach ricky and he comes out to pensacola sometimes too. The reason FS is so good is because of hardwork, not because of special button binds.
lastly, his joystick was 10 buttons the same amount a pad has. You can even count them if you look at the video which I don’t think you’ve even tried to do.
stop pouring your misinformation all over this thread if its not logical.
No you stupid fuck he said clearly he was not using the buttons for anything because he has not trained enough with them. Not because he does not need them, but because, after a year he still did not know how to use them yet and he was not trained on them…After a fucking year… and he came up with the idea of the fucking stick, made it himself and still after a year can not figure out his own invention… Fuck that sounds like some Donald Trump shit right there…
Who sounds stupid now?
He can seismo all day in training but his loser match against champ and his winners match against champ have 2 much different styles of seismos and one is on point and one is not and one has the option of the buttons and one does not.
i think you still sound stupid because that ad hominem post you just made doesnt address what we were talking about at all and hes shown he is pretty good at siesmo cancelling
if u think that being in high pressure situations automatically = shit execution then you’re off your rocker