Dark Prince for Evo 2014
These games were designed with the intent of people playing them in arcades, on a 6 button joystick. That is what the developers intended so that is what they designed for. The popularity of SF2 forced a console port, make dat money, thus bringing in controllers as part of the now acceptable group of input devices without even considering the impact it had on the game. Since then, TO after TO has allowed multiple types of devices without even considering the possibilities and over time, people have found small ways to abuse the game through them. Which is sadly “tournament legal.”
where do you draw the line on devices? if you modded a new x360 controller, its technically legal to wire up a joystick to the pad and then a hitbox to the analog sticks if modding to analog sticks is possible. Is it fair that pad players get 2 joysticks? what about L3\R3 gaining access to MORE buttons AND more techniques? x360 pad players get access to 10 total buttons to use through L3\R3 where regular joystick users only get 8, and if you’re OG like me you’re probably working off 6 still. Someone for the love of god tell me how 2 joysticks on 1 device is fair?
if its legal to have 2 separate joysticks on a pad, shouldn’t I be able to have 2 separate joysticks on my joystick too? hypothetically, that should be “tournament legal” as it follows the same rules as another device.
Is it fair hitbox users get to hit left\right in 2 frames or any combination of directions in 2 frames? because of that, you can math block in certain games on particular mixups no joystick can ever hope to replicate. Yet something like this is “tournament legal” why?
see how crazy this shit is now? all of the standards can be applied to one another to cause a hybrid to X degree and its because the people determining the rules can’t tell how it will affect the game for better or worse.
HIS STICK STILL SHOULDNTVE BEEN ALLOWED SO HE SHOULD STOP CRYING
imo
Wiz and Tom have already made themselves heard on this. The issue is that the stick gives Full Schedule an executional advantage that the game does not allow - i.e. binding two directions to a single button, not even the Hitbox does this.
HAHAHA one time I was in my hotel room at ncr and noel barged in and searched the whole room obviously looking for someone. On his way out he shoved the curtain in the door for re-entry, like it would keep me from locking him out. Seems like a really nice guy.
You mean like pressing a dpad or stick diagonally ?
According to the game, up and forward is not a direction, it’s two directions put together, because it just interprets directions as on/off from four different switches. That’s kind of what hitboxes are trying to get at in the first place, to distil the inputs to their most basic without losing anything. It treats the inputs the same as the game treats them.
Given that, why the hell are you using a hitbox if you need to add buttons to execute?
Does Full Schedule still have those extra buttons lying around I heard Sanford Kelly needs them.
so do you ban anything that gives you an executional advantage then?
tekken on a hit box is pretty broken, you get access to some ridiculous level bullshit for no effort. Do you ban pads since they’re 2 joysticks and 10 buttons? those would cause an executional advantage all the same and yes they do create advantages.
if pads are allowed, 2 joystick device, then that means all devices can have 2 joysticks and be tournament legal. Its also legal to have a 10 button joystick as a pad uses 10 buttons if you include L3\R3.
their reasoning makes no sense because by that logic, you should ban anything that isn’t a 6 button joystick or a saturn pad. Yet pads and hitboxes are allowed which create executional advantages.
If you actually think switching joysticks mid-match is an executional advantage, maybe you should try it some time. Having to do that in order to reliably get a tiger knee motion out was the reason I switched from pad.
Also i like Keits take on the issue http://ufgtus.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/hardware-button-bind-ruling-for-ufgt10/
Developer intention shouldn’t matter when it comes to input devices. People should have the option of playing their games with the input device they are comfortable with. If I want to play SFIV with my Corsair K95 then I should be able to do so (Game is also on PC so why not?). Every input device will have it’s advantages and trying to get these advantages banned will be difficult to enforce and will just open a can of worms.
It does when it comes to programming. If they programmed it into the game, then it’s in the game. How the game interprets inputs matters. ST was programmed pretty simply and tournament rules tend to reflect that, pretty much nothing is allowed except the basics. SF4 gives you free throw buttons, all kick and all punch, etc.
I’ll just copy-and-paste Keits here.
But is that not why we have the grassroots we have??? I mean this player came from you and mike so what is his excuse… get that win how ever you can right??? I mean it seems to me that the times have just changed and the scene is just at the point of flat out ridic… There is no way Jason and Jon and Jeff and both the Brandon’s would have let me come to gatherings for MvC2 with a stick that gives me free as fuck ahvb’s and tri dashes at fucking will (if I choose to go as far as mapping 1 and 3 to buttons as well as 7 and 9) it just would not happen… they would never have gotten a room with me at and FR, they would just flat out not respect my game play. That is not to say that they would never hang out with me or they would hate me, but they would not try to find a way to make it ok for me to cheat in any way. They would never send to any major with just that stick, or that stick in general. You would get laughed out of after hours rooms with that stick. It was just overall easier to see that line back then I guess… Like the whole PS2 pads for MVC2.
I mean even if he only used it for what he said, is that alone not ridic… he said he is taking a technique that requires 214~N~9 or that is what I was hearing and taking out all the N and 9 guess work by adding that button… that means he has gone from like 15 easy possibilities of how to mess this up to now one… he has to miss the button… he can not hit up or up back or back or down at all now to mess this up… that seem mighty OD to say the least… but that is not all he can do with it… look at his matches against champ at FR… He said he did not use it for anything else but his ground pound game looks hella different from the first to the second set… Go look. Marlin Pie made a comment about his seismos after seeing his first set… No one made a comment about his seismos after the buttons came off. Dude Persia made like no shit 5 comments about his seismo game and she was the commentator of his fucking match with champ… She was saying shit about his seismos even when he was not doing them to win just because of how OD’ed they were in the first and second match… Go watch that shit… We can not even see the neo matches but how does a mags get in on a viper that can wall-o-seismo with no execution gap at all… How? we see how hard it is for champ to get in on it.
I mean this seems like something that needs to be taken care of at a local level. No one should sign off on crazy shit like that. no one should make threads about crazy shit like this. Larry did not even do anything special for Neo and Champ so what is that all about except for misinformation… I mean the first post has a link that states clearly that champ and neo both pre reg and so did both of the people they switched with… and all four were in the same type of situation… Larry OK’ed both not just champ and neo but the other 2 dudes were from the same place also…
It just seems like a no brainier especially since champ left last year and said Florida is only Flocker, Full Schedule, and Green Ace. It is not like he has no respect for the player and can not take an L… That shit is OD’ed in every way to have those kind of button on a fightstck. He got caught and he should be gald it was not the yipes of 04 or 06 with eric and desmond with him, because full schedule would have never made it through the second night into finals day without being laughed/heckled out of his playing mind state… Like he should have been…
This is crazy to even be discussing… MvC2 mags with a free tri dash… cable with instant punishes and like 0% failure over his entire user base… I do not know what we are discussing… We all know it does not equal win… it just does not equal best either, and it would seem that FS is doing this to get better, when he could just you know get better.
I think it needs to be made clear that FS wasn’t even using the buttons at all at FR. He uses it for Viper Ball, and he didn’t Viper Ball once that weekend.
A grace that guys like Champ go out of their way to prove they’ve done nothing to earn.
sure does.
case and point vanilla mvc3, and maybe vsav, are susceptible to KB\hitbox\pad abuse because you can hold 2 directions and it does wacky shit to the game. Developers didn’t intend for ANYONE to be able to do that because they only considered the joysticks as the input device and 2 directions at once isn’t possible. ** If they had considered that someone COULD do that, they would of programmed accepting inputs in such a way where the game could only register one at a time which is what they ended up doing to umvc3.**
This only happened less than 3 years ago with mvc3 to umvc3 transition iirc.
The reason why Marvel 3 was stupid isn’t because you could SOCD on Hit Box, but because you can SOCD on pad, the stock controller that comes with every console. This is where designing for stick becomes a problem, because they never even considered the most basic options people would be playing on. SOCD is not a problem of the controller, it’s a problem with the game. Anything could have been wired to SOCD, you could wire your LT button to do it and the only way anyone would ever know is if you opened up the stick. Banning any controller because of a developer oversight is stupid when it’s not the fault of the controller, but the game for accepting it.
I ban anything that counts as physical button bind.
A slippery slope is only on a slippery slope if you let it be. You can just stick a flag firmly in the ground and call it good, as in “no physical button binds, no macros”.