This line of reasoning leads to a dead end. The basic idea is “some games are currently hard to play and people worked hard to play them, so we should ban anything that makes the time and effort they invested obsolete”. Sounds logically consistent, until you consider that plinking basically did for SF4 combos what FS’s button bind tries to do for Viper balls. If we’re really going to ban stuff to protect the advantage of people who worked hard to learn combos, then we should have banned plinking to protect the advantage of people who can hit links with frame-perfect timing. By the same logic, we should also ban easier variants of TAC infinites once the pros have invested time and effort into learning the harder ones.
Thought Exercise: Imagine a universe where plinking doesn’t work in SF4. You have to hit your buttons exactly every time. It’s easier to drop one-frame links, and even moves that require simultaneous button presses. Is this hypothetical world better or worse than the one you live in now, where supers are more consistent and one-frame-links are effectively two-framers? If you were to meet a dimension-traveller from this world, and he called you a fraud because you rely on plinky gimmicks to hit links while he does not, would you agree with him? If Capcom were to patch this change into USF4, would you be in favor of it or against it?
Or these player need to reevaluate their priorities. This matter is just blown way out of proportion. I understand guys have their due to make but maybe they shouldn’t be competing if not accepting of challenges.
C’mon, really? This argument gets really amusing if you try to apply it to the conventional wisdom from a decade or so ago, when people would have to put in considerably more effort to seek out quality arcade sticks for their perceived advantage, even if they had to go through MAS or random garage job modders to do it.
Very unlikely for a lot of reasons including how people bitch more about the game than they do take it seriously. They’ll just hope they get their swings in and muscle it out over the guy trying to tech it out. Especially in a game where you can die in one combo or throw it makes any type of tech really difficult to shut down what normally works. Like you were alluding to, it’s more likely to see someone use a hit box to get a bit of advantage in a game where it would actually matter. In Marvel, too many ways to die no matter how much you beef yourself up in the tech. In Marvel its just about being slightly more efficient than anything that will take you leaps and bounds over someone that thinks just as well or better than you.
If it took Chris G’s dominating with Morrigan for 2+ years to get 2 other people to play Morrigan with any type of real proficiency, the chances of anything else catching on before Marvel 4 comes out is very low. Unless these hit boxes and mapped buttons save people from Dark Vergil 95 percent of the time, don’t see how they will make you insurmountable within this game.
I don¿t care about UMvC3 at all, but this will probably spill into the other fighting games soon so it’s worth discussing it.
I dislike high execution barriers and the way I see it this is a case of player working on it to overcome them. What’s the problem with it? FChamp making a fuss about it is as scrubby as whining about people picking high tier characters. We should now say “the game starts at the choice and modding of controller, way before the character screen”.
Regarding balance, execution barriers are neutral. For every silly combo they are keeping on check (e.g. El fuerte run-stop-fierce), they also kill other possibilities and characters worth exploring. These barriers are the mediocre’s developer way to balance a game, just like the ultra-secret-hidden-mythic rare that is utterly broken: sure, you have made the game feels fair in the lower circles that don’t have access to the best shit, but in the upper, high competitive circles game is still lame. This is also bad in the sense that the games becomes more shallow the better people become.
All in all, moves and combos should be kept in check by proper adjustment of startup and recovery frames instead of trying to sweep the brokeness under the rug of execution. Charge inputs are the only way legit way of balancing a move, and that because those tend to have better properties. I fail to see how, for example, double half circles are necessary instead of just adding more startup, but a good argument may convince me here.
If you want to keep standard stick configurations because of the designer intentions (like, inability to double dash immediately after jumping) fine, but don’t strangle players with obnoxious exec requirements that create huge incentives for players to use controller mods that someone will whine about and the rest will jump to defend him.
it’s clear to everyone that cheat schedule couldn’t win without his cheater buttons because he got destroyed as soon as he didn’t have them. that’s all the evidence I need to see. Lotta people trying to justify cheating ITT.
Actually this is exactly what they (hitboxes or extra buttons/stick) could do, you can’t get hit by Rapid Slash mixups when it’s no longer a mixup since you’re blocking both ways with left+right :>
Plinking is not the same as adding an extra button, but it is subject to some of the same criticisms that are attributed to adding a button. The extra buttons, as well as the modding of the stick, are irrelevant. If having extra buttons on a stick was bad then we wouldn’t allow TEs because they give you 8 buttons for 6 button games. If it was the modding that was bad then there would be no reason to ban Turbo, which is a default feature supported in mass market sticks out of the box. People are really only complaining because FS’s stick (and hitbox, and other alternative input devices) make some things that were hard to do, easier to do.
And that’s what plinking does. It makes something that was hard to do, easier to do. If easy Viper balls are bad, why wouldn’t easy links also be bad?
Another dead-end argument. If we’re going to ban every possible vector for advantage from outside the game, then the logical conclusion is to standardize on pads. Why would we ban bindings for being superior to stick, and not stick for being superior to pad? Makes no sense.
This is a good point. If there’s no mention of sticks in the game, they’re not intended to be in the game. Pads only for that game. Does MvC3 have an “Arcade Stick” controller map? does AE12?
Looks like our main games are pad only. Hope you’re ready for the Wolfkrone/Fanatiq years!
no its not subject to the same criticisms. plinking is an in game coding issue. much like sf2 allowing 2 in 1s. its in the game. no one adds it. no one made it at home or ordered it online. its a piece of the game that everyone has access to the moment you purchase the game or put quarters in the machine. im really not seeing how you are attempting to make this comparison.
a better comparison would be a controller that made plinking easier by adding extra select buttons everywhere
Sticks and pads have been around long enough that they are starting to be viewed as equals. Just look how many high level players play on pad these days.
There is no superior device between the 2.
On another note I never said ban everything that is an outside element. I simply brought up the inside/outside elements to illustrate the difference between a plink and extra buttons
Dunno about marvel, but yes AE does have controller and arcade stick layouts in the configuration menu
Anyway its a stretch to think any fighting game developer not making their own game specific controller would have made a game without an arcade stick as one of the targeted input devices.
Uh… I thought that’s pretty much what they were talking about on the p-linking side of things. Having Back wired to one of the “Spare” buttons on an arcade stick so people were B-Linking. I may have missed something but that’s what I thought.
Yeah I can’t seem to find any reason your stuff gets flagged. It’s not like you’re jumping in, calling an entire demographic within the FGC cheaters, refusing to actually read/watch the “Evidence” (At least I hope you’re refusing because if you have watched/read it all then you must be very narrow-minded) or generally being quite ignorant about the whole thing.
Personally I don’t like select plinking and I think it needs to go as well, but technically its possible on any controller/stick or arcade machine. So as long as you only have one select button its legal.
Adding additional up forwards/backs is like adding more select buttons so you can tripple plink any input.
I know people make the comparison between FS stick to stock pads with dpad and analogs having multiple ups and shit, but its functionally impossible to make a stock pad work in that fashion without swapping the analogs. I’m no pad hacker so I don’t know if that’s even possible
No, this functionality is available by default on hitboxes (button sticks) due to the nature of their design. To disable it you have to jump through some hoops (solder in an extra PCB or install a PCB that allows you to switch this function on/off). If you order from the Hit Box website then they will do this for you but you can request that they leave it in and they will do so. For hitboxes made at home you have to go through the extra steps yourself.
On regular sticks this is physically impossible to do, however. You would have to jump through some hoops (add in extra buttons/stick) to add in the same functionality. But by default, it is not possible.
Please stop talking about what you know nothing about. Being able to physically press two buttons doesn’t mean your controller is sending those two inputs. No sold Hit Box has ever had a PCB that was capable of sending left+right in Marvel. Furthermore, we absolutely do not do any extra work to make sure the PCB doesn’t send SOCD inputs, our PCB’s come to us with that stock, and we do not remove it upon request, if you want to remove it you have to do it yourself.
So basically everything you just said was bullshit.
