perhaps the proliferation of these controllers will reverse the trend of increasingly combo heavy games?? :wonder:
The tournament organizers needs to have an outline on what is allowed. So in one tournament they are more lenient while the other tournament they are more strict. Some guidelines is needed to be in placed.
For Melty Blood tournaments, I’ve seen one or two people use keyboard controllers for the PS2 versions of the game. EO wasn’t used for CvS2 for multiple reasons (lack of roll canceling is the big one I think). The second analog stick thing would be difficult to enforce though, because you’d have to reliably detect when a person is using the second stick as opposed to inputting the move manually, and it seems impossible to enforce without a judge staring at the hands of every person and making sure they don’t use it.
The absolute worst offender of in built button macros that I can think of is in Fate/Unlimited Codes, where you can bind each character’s super to a button. The problem is that Berserker has a 720 motion command grab super, and the game allows you to bind it to a single button.
Maybe you can play a guy with an 88 key and a MIDI -> Xbox360 converter.
Calm down. You guys can disagree without getting personal. If you can’t, then you’ll need to take a quick break from the internet because there are ALWAYS wrong people on the internet.
Man, you are one angry guy, you know that? This is enjoyable to me.
Ok, so, since my posts are simply that far outside of your realm of intelligence, I’ll make it simpler for you. Again.
Here’s what I’m saying, since in your rage this seems to be escaping you: The buttons don’t make a difference in what YOU keep mentioning, which is seismos. YOU were the first to point to a timestamp in the video talking about how that missed seismo wouldn’t have happened if the button was there. In the most recent post, you said, “I mentioned he fucks up a seismo and a button would not make that mistake.” So, when you say that, what does it look like you’re talking about? It looks like you’re saying he needs the button for seismos, sir.
The point of what you call conjecture is that you have no fucking clue what he was trying to do because you aren’t him. Also, if you watch the video (again), you can clearly see that an assist was called and Doom was hit. There’s no conjecture there. It’s an undeniable fact that if he did another seismo, he would have been hit along with Doom.
You mention these other players, but these other players aren’t him. Why are you mentioning other players? They have nothing to do with anything.
I don’t think he is saying FS needs a button to perform Seismos, just that the buttons makes his Seismos technique more consistent. If the button makes TK easier, it’s only natural that a move with TK motion would be more accurate.
It’s impossible to prove if the man was using the buttons unless you were actually there looking at his hands so I think this discussion is pretty pointless. In that video he admits that if he had used the button rapid seismos could be easier but for him its just a matter of rhythm. Those players players SaeQuo keeps bringing up are all experience Viper players with less than 100% accuracy on rapid seismos, so I think they are pretty relevant in this discussion.
Anyways, no need to rage here. I think this topic is already getting out of hand.
Next child to call each other names or need to insult another person in any way will be enjoying a time-out in the corner. Please reread the FGD Rules thread if you must.
people who can’t play the game are adding more myth to this than actual facts. Its part of the problem within the FGC as well as the entire world for everything apparently, however I feel like this problem is more relevant within the FGC because of how much people prefer drama over facts.
Like I mentioned in the stream thread countless times, when you watch someone play on a stream you’re probably watching less than 1% of their total matches that player will ever play in their life. If you watched 1% of Jordan’s basketball games and randomly watched some bad games out of it, you would think Jordan was a scrub rather than analyzing his total body of games and realizing how amazing he actually was.
how can anyone watch FS, or any other good\great player, play less than 10 times and automatically know what he can or can’t do? mathematically, its wrong.
there are very few people we can gauge kind of accurately through videos but its only because those players have countless games available to watch on the net like FChamp who is always playing on stream and in tournaments. The more games you watch someone play, the more accurately you can gauge their skill so it stands to reason that if you don’t watch a lot of X person playing, you can’t possibly judge their skill accurately.
developer intention does get implemented at the “playing” aspect of it if you were to call it anything. Certain top tiers were banned for being too strong, akuma in ST and I think some of the CvS2 characters were banned. We ban certain glitches, gambit glitch in mvc2 cross assault glitch in umvc3.
in game glitches through playing get scrutinized whether or not they should be allowed. They ALWAYS HAVE BEEN and if you’re a newer player, you just don’t know that. However device glitches have never been scrutinized ever because the people making the rules can’t determine whether or not said device is going to break the game.
playing glitches and device glitches fall into the same boat, glitches that affect the game. Its just our standards were grandfathered into a console system from an arcade standard and the way we think about glitches was never applied to devices since every player from the arcade were all playing on the same sticks.
the one thing they do have control over tho is the inputs accepted to get your shit out.
i’ll use sf4 cuz its my game for an example
they make oni U2 a double half circle move because its pretty fast and does 525 damage. to limit its use and the amount of shit you can react to they complicate the motion as opposed to just letting it be 2 QCFs. same thing with 0 frame grabs being 720 motions.
and then they make inverse decisions. 7 frame invulnerable dp that only requires 1 qcb instead of a traditional dp. ok but it only does 70 damage instead of 120-150 like most dps do in that game
i think the tekken developers had a similar line of thinking about EWGF. give a move tons of powerful redeeming factors, but hide it behind frame perfect inputs
beefed up keyboards and extra stick buttons says fuck that. and no you dont need to be on a dev team to see the intention
thats fine i guess. as i said, hitbox is most likely the best controller for a fighting game, but if there are to be rules about this sort of thing, they should probably lean more towards simplicity and what the majority of people have access to, and less towards niche controllers like keyboards, hitboxes, or sticks with extra buttons or pedals attached
You act as if everyone on the face of the earth doesn’t have access to a Hit Box, keyboard, or modded sticks. Anyone anywhere could easily get any of these items, especially if they have a local scene.
Even though hitboxes are more available than ever, I think the general deriding attitude towards controllers that aren’t stick means that there won’t be a general consensus on how good (or how much better) hitbox is. I think hitboxes can be as available as sticks to anyone. Availability probably isn’t a strong enough basis for judgement on hitboxes.
thats not the point. you can get the most random of random bullshit if you know where to look on the internet
what im saying is that a hitboxes/custom builds arent going to be on the radar for most people. also its not like it would be readily available if large amounts of people decided to get them. i doubt theres a warehouse stock pile to support mass orders
maybe not. but availability plus the grey area/difficulty in classification/inherent advantages a hitbox creates makes it a negative to me.
Whether or not people know about them is irrelevant, they are plenty available. And even if the main Hit Box company couldn’t provide 100,000 orders tomorrow, it is trivial to make your own, you can get custom faceplates to convert a stick into a Hit Box, any customs creator can make one, there’s knockoffs if you look for them, there are so many options to get one that if you wanted one you would have one. Availability is the worst argument ever.
which is why it isnt the only point im making about it. it still factors in tho if you were to make a rule about it
All this means is that from here on out, developers need to think of a way to accept the fact that the Hitbox exists (and other variants) and need to develop games where the motion itself bears minimal importance to the balance of the move for competitive play. Persona 4 Arena for example has no DP or half circle motions. There’s probably a development solution to the hitbox, but most developers probably don’t care enough about such a minor issue in the competitive scene right now. When/if it becomes a major issue, then developers might start looking into ways to change that.
As an example of a development solution to the very issue you mentioned, boiling the motion startup thing to it’s basic elements means that they’re gating some powerful moves behind additional startup time if you want to perform the move at neutral (it’s a lot harder to anti air with T. Hawk U2 than Sakura’s crouching fierce), but that additional startup time isn’t there for the purposes of combos, reversals, or any other moment where you can buffer the command and hide it in something else (it’s pretty easy to do a wake up 720 compared to a standing 720). That implementation could probably be programmed into a game, but it’d probably feel weird to have the exact same move have different start up time depending on what kind of state the character is in when performed.
Major edit
I use to be bother if my opponent was using input device for an advantage but I learned it silly to worry about what your opponent is doing and focus on my game play. Execution advantage only becomes problem if the game lets it be a problem Maybe people need to reconsider what game they take competitive if their concern about ease of execution Plenty of fighter have been going towards ease of execution and handling them well.
cheat schedule should be banned. all cheatboxes, keyboards and macros are cheating and should be banned.
But marvel is a very execution heavy game… that is why wesker is just not that ish and dante in the right hands is.
See, thinking like this is also a problem. I am the exact same way. I do not care what others are using, but my world is hekka different from neo and champ and chrisG. They put their life and time into this video game ish, while I father 5 kids and run a home business with my wife. Sure for me when I do travel to a major, input devices mean nothing to me, but I am not rocking anything over top 64. My input is only from the perspective of a player that someone like FS might “cheat” out of a better place in top 32. No where near money. So yes, from our perspective, that type of ish does not make or break the day.
But for someone like champ it is the diff between playin 3 more matches just to get to play for second place money or playing one more match and being in GF. That does not break the day but it does mean something when you are the only one trying to make sure things are fair. Champ can and will continue to adapt and win, but if he never had to play this person because he might have lost to neo, which in turn might have given neo a shot at money, why not set the ish straight. Champ has said nothing bad about FS just that the “infinity gauntlet” should not be legal.
Champ, Neo, Chris, Justin will be playing in some major this weekend, next weekend, and ever weekend until they put this shit down. FS might be at Civil war or UFGT or the next philly/big E tourney, but that is not certain. But with this kind of ruling and allowing open mods, it will make it to where top players will be forced to face more ZeroMayCry/Zero based teams, more Spencer top loaded teams, and more viper based teams. This is not even to say all the people I listed that could get a boost and shake up things even more because of their overall great game play.
All those new “competitors” with their own random ish thrown in, shaking up our top 32/16/8 and making some of the top 16 matches just booty to watch. The clear fact is this, we just do not see many of those style of teams really taking off (in tourney), while yes they are great top tier teams, the execution needed for these types of teams makes it to where it is hard to be efficient with them. Wesker, Nova, Mags, Wolvie and even Doom are much easier point players with much less of an execution gap than Spencer, Zero, Viper, Firebrand.
This type of ruling will change that. The button will not make all their execution boss but it will help to hide most glaring faults they had with TKing and in some cases just erase it all together since they were not to far off from being efficient already (Drew and Marlin to be exact)
Neo and champ did not care about all the people FS beat on the way to play them, they cared if the stick he was using when he played them was legal. This is all they are going to continue to care about, and is all they should care about.
wow people flagging my post as “spam” for having an opinion
using macros and cheatboxes is cheating. full schedule is a cheater. i stand by these claims