Full schedule's recap on FR17, his joystick and what it does, top player treatment, wizard debacle

[Missing_Person]

[details=Spoiler][/details]

Hitbox allows you to do perfect bdc, ewgf, wavedash, even unnecessary heihachi/hwoarang jf. It delivers what years of practice can’t and that is precision. The only reason nobody is winning with it is because nobody cares about Tekken or it’s competitive scene. I think even in Korea and Japan the game is dead or close to dead now.

What? No.

Maybe I’ll just go to Green Arcade this summer and take daily pictures as proof that Tekken still thrives in Korea. The reason no one’s winning with it is that Koreans spend the vast majority of their Tekken play in arcades and have to play on arcade sticks.

If Korea was a console only market, and more Koreans had time to invest in the game on console, you’d probably see more hitboxes being used there.

[chaoslimits]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/846360495.jpg?1396260257

James Bardolph ‏@jamesbardolph 9h
@eventhubscom stick with connected pedals spotted at Hypespotting. Credit to ZombieBrian for photo http://twitpic.com/dzwfxr
Well, that escalated quickly lol.

[sh0ultz]

according to preppy’s rules, that is tournament legal. Should also be legal by wizards\cannon rules too. See how dumb this shit is getting?

the main reason I told preppy his rules suck, the invisible standard rules set by evo more or less, is that they don’t prevent device modification. You’re allowed to mod to x degree as long as it fits within the rules.

the invisible standard I keep referring to is this.

No physical binds, no controller-based macros or turbo.

that device with double foot pedals is pure 100% legal by definition as long as it doesn’t break those simple rules. Its 100% bullshit but its legal.

if you don’t design the rules in such a way, people will cheat. Its common sense. The rules must also factor what the developers took into consideration when programming the game as far as devices are concerned. If not, you will see the most fuck ass concoction of a joystick ever seen which we are slowly beginning too.

[jimmy1200]

My problem with the “no binds/macros/turbo” rule is that you’re essentially creating different rules for different input devices.

On a six button stick, you don’t have room for a 3P/3K softbind. On a pad, you have four face buttons, four shoulder buttons. By default the game provides for 3P/3K on a couple of those shoulders. Now, if the no binds/macros/turbo rule applies to pad users as well, you’re unduly making the game considerably more difficult for players who lack the dexterity to manipulate buttons on different sides of the pad simultaneously (me). In some cases, actually making it impossible for players without full use of their hands/wrists (BrolyLegs, as a high-profile example, who uses the 3K button extensively).

I’m just pointing something out. I mean, I play on a fuckhuge six button stick myself, but I really don’t care what anyone else is using (within reason), so I don’t get why this topic is still so long. I think we need to re-examine some of these rules, guys.

word, well i personally would give an exception to handicapped players if it were up to me, but if you arent permanently physically inhibited in anyway, then nope, no binds. you get the natural benefits you get from playing pad, and a pad with dual analog, and thats it. if that is unacceptable for you, then learn stick, and hitbox depends on a case by case basis, with me personally leaning to most likely banning it from most games. this is just my opinion for how i would run things.

unrelated

imo, most people dont need binds, they want binds, and feel entitled to binds simply because they are in the game. it might be too late for majors now, but maybe some local weeklies and monthlies could start switching things up to at the very least banning binds, period, and obviously no fucking foot pedals. lol.

correct me if im wrong anyone, but does a hitbox even have any weaknesses. its just buttons on a box, that actually can be put in anyway comfortable for you as long as it doesnt break the “rules” (whatever the fuck those are these days). your directional inputs are faster because you are just pushing a button (didnt mk9 not even register jumps sometimes on hitboxes at one point because it was too fast), then well the rest is just pushing buttons, and now some tournies will even allow more buttons for directional binds outside of the 4, so even better for someone with a nice custom hitbox. yikes

also, i mean i dont fuck with it, but i aint truly mad at anyone if you need your binds, or want them, but we just have a difference in philosophy when it comes to fighting games. our community right now is basically pro steroids in a video game way. lol. i just prefer a more nautral method to achieving awesome results, and would prefer “my” tournaments that way. for me there is a lot more dignity, and clarity that comes with playing the game as “natural” as possible. in my opinion you gain a much deeper respect and understanding for various fighting games when you cannot just bind your way around problems you face, or in the case of a hitbox, simply tap your way easily around task that are meant to be challenging, or in some cases do the impossible (although dual analog pads can produce some of that dumb behavior too).

i get it, most people came here post sf4, it was your first fighting game, or the first you have taken serious, so binds and dual analogs seemed only natural to you as you worked your way through learning the game, then others, and im not saying your wrong, our philosophies are just different. just dont try to downplay your advantages as “binding dual analog pad players” and “hitboxers”.

i think about the only true advantage stick players have, is that we can put pretty art on our stuff. lol. oh wait, hitboxes can do that too.

man, i wonder what a hitbox, or a stick with directional inputs could do for you in kof 13. you could probably do some really funky ass shit.

[jimmy1200]

loool

James Bardolph (jamesbardolph)

@eventhubscom left pedal is up, right pedal is back for plinking. Up is disconnected on joystick!

[sh0ultz]

this is also legal by definition

http://www.amazon.com/The-PEREGRINE-Wearable-Interface-Medium/dp/B0035HABMM

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wired-Racing-Wheel/dp/B000BQUV5M/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1396301782&sr=1-6&keywords=xbox+360+steering+wheel

lol, this shit is getting retarded but its legal!!! my joystick looks it belonds more to a nascar race than in a FG tournament.

hit-box glove is a pretty interesting concept and by definition, it too is legal as it breaks no current argument set by the FGC. Someone should do that!!

[chaoslimits]

this is also legal by definition

http://www.amazon.com/The-PEREGRINE-Wearable-Interface-Medium/dp/B0035HABMM

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wired-Racing-Wheel/dp/B000BQUV5M/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1396301782&sr=1-6&keywords=xbox+360+steering+wheel

lol, this shit is getting retarded but its legal!!! my joystick looks it belonds more to a nascar race than in a FG tournament.

hit-box glove is a pretty interesting concept and by definition, it too is legal as it breaks no current argument set by the FGC. Someone should do that!!

The mental image of someone sitting down to play FChamp and plugging in a racing wheel… lol

[HNIC_Mike]

shits getting a bit silly. foot pedals. lol

IMO they should keep things as simple as possible as far as rules go.

a hitbox has obvious advantages, and is probably the most efficient precise controller for FG’s, but i dont think the people who designed the games had a hitbox or pedals or whatever in mind when they made the controls. stick or d pad with 6-8 buttons was probably as far as anyone thought, and going past that design ceiling is going to make things much simpler than what a developer has in mind in regards to execution barriers and the strength of the moves/techniques they try to hide behind them

if it were me, just to avoid confusion, i’d ban hitboxes, and the only binding available would be stuff like 3 punches/kicks.

[Omnigear]

I would pay to watch that! as long as FChamp is defeated.

hit-box glove is a pretty interesting concept and by definition, it too is legal as it breaks no current argument set by the FGC. Someone should do that!!

The mental image of someone sitting down to play FChamp and plugging in a racing wheel… lol
[/quote]

[Muttonman]

I’m of the opinion that there’s really not much of a difference between a keyboard and a hitbox, and the game was designed to run with the former so there shouldn’t be a problem there. Regardless it should be too late to ban the hitbox; too many people have bought and practiced on it, and this sort of decision is extremely toxic for a community to come to.

Personally I’m of the opinion that if it’s an in game bind it’s okay; that’s a purposeful developer decision. Otherwise you can bind any single press to whatever button you like on your controller. Again, see the fact that this game runs on PC; we’ve got clear developer intentions here. So the question becomes if a diagonal is a single button press or not. There really shouldn’t be much argument outside of that

[xebo]

I’m of the opinion that there’s really not much of a difference between a keyboard and a hitbox, and the game was designed to run with the former so there shouldn’t be a problem there. Regardless it should be too late to ban the hitbox; too many people have bought and practiced on it, and this sort of decision is extremely toxic for a community to come to.

Personally I’m of the opinion that if it’s an in game bind it’s okay; that’s a purposeful developer decision. Otherwise you can bind any single press to whatever button you like on your controller. Again, see the fact that this game runs on PC; we’ve got clear developer intentions here. So the question becomes if a diagonal is a single button press or not. There really shouldn’t be much argument outside of that

but street fighter is an arcade game. it was designed to be played in an arcade with arcade equipment. i doubt that serious consideration was given to the pc platform outside of the pursuit of profit. as far as the in-game binds, they are there to placate the console market but are not a part of the intended gameplay.

the problem with being a hardcore fan of anything is that you can lose sight of the nuances that amazes the casual observer (miss the forest for the trees as it were). beyond incentivizing players to continue to improve in order to progress, execution barriers function as a form of balance within the game, maintaining its integrity.

[HNIC_Mike]

i mean like original design. like when they had pen and paper and thought, what should this moves motion be. i doubt those dudes had the foresight to see someone making a beefed up fighting game centric keyboard.

just thinking sticks/pads. people playing on actual pc keyboards is an afterthought.

[ukyo_rulz]

Douglas Adams wrote something that feels incredibly relevant here:

1. everything that’s already in the world when you’re born is just normal;

2. anything that gets invented between then and before you turn thirty is incredibly exciting and creative and with any luck you can make a career out of it;

3. anything that gets invented after you’re thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilisation as we know it until it’s been around for about ten years when it gradually turns out to be alright really.

[Hawkingbird]

i mean like original design. like when they had pen and paper and thought, what should this moves motion be. i doubt those dudes had the foresight to see someone making a beefed up fighting game centric keyboard.

just thinking sticks/pads. people playing on actual pc keyboards is an afterthought.

We disregard developer intention when it comes to how we play the games. Why care about it now with input devices? The game is available on Arcade, console, PC, 3DS and mobile and each carry it’s own input device to play the game. When it comes to SF4, the series has always had a presence on PC and developed on hardware that’s essentially a PC running on Win XP. Can’t regard that as an afterthought.

[mapleleafs791]

Spoiler

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/846360495.jpg?1396260257

James Bardolph ‏@jamesbardolph 9h
@eventhubscom stick with connected pedals spotted at Hypespotting. Credit to ZombieBrian for photo http://twitpic.com/dzwfxr
Well, that escalated quickly lol.

Brings a whole new meaning to “Foot Dive!”

[p.m_novaroad_pilot]

My problem with the “no binds/macros/turbo” rule is that you’re essentially creating different rules for different input devices.

On a six button stick, you don’t have room for a 3P/3K softbind. On a pad, you have four face buttons, four shoulder buttons. By default the game provides for 3P/3K on a couple of those shoulders. Now, if the no binds/macros/turbo rule applies to pad users as well, you’re unduly making the game considerably more difficult for players who lack the dexterity to manipulate buttons on different sides of the pad simultaneously (me). In some cases, actually making it impossible for players without full use of their hands/wrists (BrolyLegs, as a high-profile example, who uses the 3K button extensively).

I’m just pointing something out. I mean, I play on a fuckhuge six button stick myself, but I really don’t care what anyone else is using (within reason), so I don’t get why this topic is still so long. I think we need to re-examine some of these rules, guys.

word, well i personally would give an exception to handicapped players if it were up to me, but if you arent permanently physically inhibited in anyway, then nope, no binds. you get the natural benefits you get from playing pad, and a pad with dual analog, and thats it. if that is unacceptable for you, then learn stick, and hitbox depends on a case by case basis, with me personally leaning to most likely banning it from most games. this is just my opinion for how i would run things.

unrelated

imo, most people dont need binds, they want binds, and feel entitled to binds simply because they are in the game. it might be too late for majors now, but maybe some local weeklies and monthlies could start switching things up to at the very least banning binds, period, and obviously no fucking foot pedals. lol.

correct me if im wrong anyone, but does a hitbox even have any weaknesses. its just buttons on a box, that actually can be put in anyway comfortable for you as long as it doesnt break the “rules” (whatever the fuck those are these days). your directional inputs are faster because you are just pushing a button (didnt mk9 not even register jumps sometimes on hitboxes at one point because it was too fast), then well the rest is just pushing buttons, and now some tournies will even allow more buttons for directional binds outside of the 4, so even better for someone with a nice custom hitbox. yikes

also, i mean i dont fuck with it, but i aint truly mad at anyone if you need your binds, or want them, but we just have a difference in philosophy when it comes to fighting games. our community right now is basically pro steroids in a video game way. lol. i just prefer a more nautral method to achieving awesome results, and would prefer “my” tournaments that way. for me there is a lot more dignity, and clarity that comes with playing the game as “natural” as possible. in my opinion you gain a much deeper respect and understanding for various fighting games when you cannot just bind your way around problems you face, or in the case of a hitbox, simply tap your way easily around task that are meant to be challenging, or in some cases do the impossible (although dual analog pads can produce some of that dumb behavior too).

i get it, most people came here post sf4, it was your first fighting game, or the first you have taken serious, so binds and dual analogs seemed only natural to you as you worked your way through learning the game, then others, and im not saying your wrong, our philosophies are just different. just dont try to downplay your advantages as “binding dual analog pad players” and “hitboxers”.

i think about the only true advantage stick players have, is that we can put pretty art on our stuff. lol. oh wait, hitboxes can do that too.

man, i wonder what a hitbox, or a stick with directional inputs could do for you in kof 13. you could probably do some really funky ass shit.

you dont need binds if you play on stick because its easy as shit to press the eqivienlent of square and x

this obviously varies form game to game
but complaining about binds in tekken
ROFLMFAO

you are shit if you cry against binds in losing to a player (not saying you are but i mean in general)

like no doubt man you might need to find a rope and get comfortable or get better in other aspects

you dont gain any thing from the analogs in tekken except to tag

IDK man this varies form game to game
especially since on stick its easy as shit to hit 2 buttons

i fail to see the advantages overall

[Trouble_Brewing]

See, again I think we have an issue of people not understanding how arcade hardware works.

Adding footpedals to a stick (in the way that user did) doesn’t allow it to do anything it couldn’t before; you’re just triggering it with another part of your body. Frankly, if you can learn to plink with your feet, more power to you. The amount of time you would need to practice to be comfortable jumping/plinking your feet would not be trival. If anything, in the beginning this adds the potential for user error.

Binding two directions to one button removes the potential for human error immediately.

The former should be legal, the later, no way.

[jimmy1200]

My problem with the “no binds/macros/turbo” rule is that you’re essentially creating different rules for different input devices.

On a six button stick, you don’t have room for a 3P/3K softbind. On a pad, you have four face buttons, four shoulder buttons. By default the game provides for 3P/3K on a couple of those shoulders. Now, if the no binds/macros/turbo rule applies to pad users as well, you’re unduly making the game considerably more difficult for players who lack the dexterity to manipulate buttons on different sides of the pad simultaneously (me). In some cases, actually making it impossible for players without full use of their hands/wrists (BrolyLegs, as a high-profile example, who uses the 3K button extensively).

I’m just pointing something out. I mean, I play on a fuckhuge six button stick myself, but I really don’t care what anyone else is using (within reason), so I don’t get why this topic is still so long. I think we need to re-examine some of these rules, guys.

word, well i personally would give an exception to handicapped players if it were up to me, but if you arent permanently physically inhibited in anyway, then nope, no binds. you get the natural benefits you get from playing pad, and a pad with dual analog, and thats it. if that is unacceptable for you, then learn stick, and hitbox depends on a case by case basis, with me personally leaning to most likely banning it from most games. this is just my opinion for how i would run things.

unrelated

imo, most people dont need binds, they want binds, and feel entitled to binds simply because they are in the game. it might be too late for majors now, but maybe some local weeklies and monthlies could start switching things up to at the very least banning binds, period, and obviously no fucking foot pedals. lol.

correct me if im wrong anyone, but does a hitbox even have any weaknesses. its just buttons on a box, that actually can be put in anyway comfortable for you as long as it doesnt break the “rules” (whatever the fuck those are these days). your directional inputs are faster because you are just pushing a button (didnt mk9 not even register jumps sometimes on hitboxes at one point because it was too fast), then well the rest is just pushing buttons, and now some tournies will even allow more buttons for directional binds outside of the 4, so even better for someone with a nice custom hitbox. yikes

also, i mean i dont fuck with it, but i aint truly mad at anyone if you need your binds, or want them, but we just have a difference in philosophy when it comes to fighting games. our community right now is basically pro steroids in a video game way. lol. i just prefer a more nautral method to achieving awesome results, and would prefer “my” tournaments that way. for me there is a lot more dignity, and clarity that comes with playing the game as “natural” as possible. in my opinion you gain a much deeper respect and understanding for various fighting games when you cannot just bind your way around problems you face, or in the case of a hitbox, simply tap your way easily around task that are meant to be challenging, or in some cases do the impossible (although dual analog pads can produce some of that dumb behavior too).

i get it, most people came here post sf4, it was your first fighting game, or the first you have taken serious, so binds and dual analogs seemed only natural to you as you worked your way through learning the game, then others, and im not saying your wrong, our philosophies are just different. just dont try to downplay your advantages as “binding dual analog pad players” and “hitboxers”.

i think about the only true advantage stick players have, is that we can put pretty art on our stuff. lol. oh wait, hitboxes can do that too.

man, i wonder what a hitbox, or a stick with directional inputs could do for you in kof 13. you could probably do some really funky ass shit.

you dont need binds if you play on stick because its easy as shit to press the eqivienlent of square and x

this obviously varies form game to game
but complaining about binds in tekken
ROFLMFAO

you are shit if you cry against binds in losing to a player (not saying you are but i mean in general)

like no doubt man you might need to find a rope and get comfortable or get better in other aspects

you dont gain any thing from the analogs in tekken except to tag

IDK man this varies form game to game
especially since on stick its easy as shit to hit 2 buttons

i fail to see the advantages overall

its funny when people try to be dicks, but its due to their ignorance, not what ive said. ive said nothing about how binds affect tekken, ever, outside of diagonal binds, which was obvious. my whole tekken discussion has always been about hitboxes. i know you just skimmed through my “walls of text”, and thought, “fuck this guy. here comes my witty, dickhead reply”, but no, if you read everything i have posted, you would never get from that, this dude is complaining about binds in tekken. so please kindly go back to nowhere, where you are from, and continue to just lurk more.

my choice to ban binds, and or my distaste for them has nothing to do with tekken. you think i would have all this discussion about tekken, a game i literally play everyday, about some fucking lp+rp, lk+rk, etc… binds in that game. lol

you are going full retard. flagged

[Ragnorok64]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/846360495.jpg?1396260257
James Bardolph ‏@jamesbardolph 9h
@eventhubscom stick with connected pedals spotted at Hypespotting. Credit to ZombieBrian for photo http://twitpic.com/dzwfxr
Well, that escalated quickly lol.

How does one coordinate their feet with button presses and stick movement; what is this?!

[Muttonman]

I’m of the opinion that there’s really not much of a difference between a keyboard and a hitbox, and the game was designed to run with the former so there shouldn’t be a problem there. Regardless it should be too late to ban the hitbox; too many people have bought and practiced on it, and this sort of decision is extremely toxic for a community to come to.

Personally I’m of the opinion that if it’s an in game bind it’s okay; that’s a purposeful developer decision. Otherwise you can bind any single press to whatever button you like on your controller. Again, see the fact that this game runs on PC; we’ve got clear developer intentions here. So the question becomes if a diagonal is a single button press or not. There really shouldn’t be much argument outside of that

but street fighter is an arcade game. it was designed to be played in an arcade with arcade equipment. i doubt that serious consideration was given to the pc platform outside of the pursuit of profit. as far as the in-game binds, they are there to placate the console market but are not a part of the intended gameplay.

the problem with being a hardcore fan of anything is that you can lose sight of the nuances that amazes the casual observer (miss the forest for the trees as it were). beyond incentivizing players to continue to improve in order to progress, execution barriers function as a form of balance within the game, maintaining its integrity.

The moment the game went on PC with a keyboard input option you had the developers saying that this sort of binding was okay. Unless you want to argue that PC SFIV isn’t the same game as SFIV for 360 or PS3, which is frankly ridiculous. You can’t just pick and choose what’s in the game, that’s the exact same mindset that leads to calling throws cheap.