…is this because you are a 360 owner? Because as a ps3 owner, I say my version should remain the tourney standard.
And Brent, I plan on seeing the Expendables with you guys whenever you go see it.
spencer - that makes no sense. this is because there is less input lag on 360. i have both te sticks so i couldn’t care less which console it is for until i start seing cold hard facts like input lag on every movement. delay is what makes online play worse thus offline play being the true standard of skill and results. if i am going to travel and pay fees to compete for cash prizes i want to play on the superior version is all i’m saying
I’m not going to push this issue any further. I’ll play it on w/e console is available.
i guess my only question is can you honestly say DO NOT prefer the version which is more responsive with crisper inputs? it just seemed to me like your entire thinking was based on being a PS3 fanboy. lol. that’s not good :shake:
i’m not going to stop playing PS3 tournaments but i’d prefer Xbox. you never know if being delayed by 2 or 3 frames or whatever might cost someone a win they deserved
Brent. You couldn’t be more right. All hail 360! On a side note there will be a 360 lovers of America meeting at my house next wednesday night. That is all.
I wrote the bottom of this post first, but I thought for continuity sake, I’d answer your questions first Brent.
So, to answer your question: Honestly, I would say no. I say no because I would prefer the version that I am most comfortable with, in the case of SSF4, it’s the ps3 version. Now, if the 360 version really is 2 frames faster, whatever. That issue been duly noted, but is not going to cause me to rush out and get a 360 so I can play the version with “crisper inputs.” Regardless if it is considered the “tournament standard.” I’ll make do with what I have. Which leads into my next train of thought:
I guess I’m just curious as to why if the 360 version is in fact, superior, it is not the tournament standard. Esp. since this issue as been present since reg. sf4. But than again, the dreamcast version of mvc2 is Superior to the rest of them, but not as good as the arcade version, so why didn’t we just play on the arcade version? Hell, why was MvC2 played on a ps3 this year at EVO, when it’s been on a dreamcast every year before it (maybe arcade, I’m not sure, my EVO history isn’t that strong). So then why do we play ST on the dreamcast instead of the actual arcade board or with a super-gun (the Super-gun allows arcade games to be played on a regular tv)?
These are all the “inferior” versions (in reference to their source material), yet they are still the “tournament standard(s).”
From the aforementioned logic, perhaps the tourney standards are in fact, supposed to be the best of the inferior versions of said game. And should we continue with that method of thinking, the PS3 version is where it should be. Granted, there are many tournaments now having their version of SSF4 be played on a 360, yet I am not sure if that is just because it is the regional majority, or if it because it is the “superior version”.
Also, I’m not trying to start any sort of arguement or create any bad feelings with this post, I know it has the potential to do so, this is mearly an observation that I had which made me laugh at the irony in which it was contained.
Oh I suppose I’ll answer. I don’t have anything to do.
The reason why tournament “standards” even occur are twofold. The first reason is simply the biggest tournaments in a particular area decide what format is followed based on what is easiest to accommodate players. The second is simply a desire to have the best version represented at a tournament regardless of what is popular. As you can imagine, the two reasons clash constantly.
In america, the Cannons decided from Evo2ksomething or other that console was much easier than finding 239847 arcade machines for their particular games. It worked out, although now because of it there are other problems that have come up that they probably did not forsee coming. Things like inconsistent hardware (the switch to HD video game systems, Dreamcast failures, TV’s that lag, etc.), yet this was still easier than lugging tons of cabinets from across the state (or even across the country who knows).
In Japan, arcades are still big there, so thus, the best tournaments are arcade based. (SBO, Cooperation Cup, numerous others). Of course this also causes it’s own sets of rules and problems (I’m willing to guess that the main reason they do single elim tournaments is simply due to hardware resources vs time). SBO has numerous tournaments just so you can qualify, and that’s just to make the actual tournament go smoothly. Why do you think Evo is going to have a tournament in Japan? Its because if 2000+ showed up to an double elim arcade tournament in Japan…well it just couldn’t be done. But the advantage they have is that the arcade version of a game is almost always considered the “standard” for the game in question. (See SF3, ST, Arcana Heart 2, and many many more). Play on something else, and…well you’re in direct conflict with reason number 2, which is important for Japan. Reason number 1 is much more important to the US. Your entire question posed in the third paragraph can be answered by reason number 1.
As far as the Super debacle, well personally I think the test is invalid for a number of reasons anyway, but there is a substantial concern that the PS3 isn’t as good at playing fighting games (I have heard this personally from players since Final Round this year, when people were playing Vanilla). But with the inconsistencies of different monitors at every tournament and the fact that some people don’t even match the PS3 up with a native 720p TV (it’s almost always upscaled to 1080p from the tournaments I’ve seen, and that can be trouble since the ps3 plays games in 720p) it is hard to back up the claim without hard evidence. Personally, I feel like I can notice a difference between the two, but with no real proof I’m no more correct than the scrubs that posts in tech talk about how their $20,000 DLP projector that makes cookies and spanks their monkeys is perfect for games.
Basically in the end, Brent just thinks that if there’s a reason we can be playing a superior version of a game, we should. I agree, but it doesn’t happen that way because well…we’re in America.
As far as Marvel goes…lol…yjdk. Marvel used to be played on arcades because the mashing involved was a lot easier on an immovable machine. When evo went console, players bitched…and bitched…and bitched. But it became tournament standard because of reason 1 (see above), and because arcades were dying. When the game went to ps3, it was the exact same thing (although I think it was less bitching than when we went to DC from arcade). The cannons refuse to use DCs anymore because they are harder to find, they don’t work very well, and is well, the past. In the end it didn’t matter anyway. The people you always see placing well were the ones you saw at the top this year as well.
One last thing. 2 frames in general may not seem like a lot, and to most players it wouldn’t be. But what if you needed those two frames to avoid a 720 from Zangief? Or to DP a fireball in ST that would otherwise kill you from block damage? Things like this are why I hate playing online. Of course 2 frames turn to like 10 online so meh what do I know.
I think I’m going to write a blog soon. I have a lot more to say on this subject but hopefully I have answered your questions.
Agreed that now that the versions have been tested, 360 SSFIV should be the standard because it has less input lag, and there are more 360s in American homes.
But it’s not 
haha, and I don’t see that changing, and here’s why.
We thought about running 360, but we already have a stable of systems we can get for SB and rounding up 15-21+ 360s is more of an unknown, PLUS Tekken has to be run on Playstation 3 as does BB:CS. Also if we consider that HDR is a game not bringing in adequate numbers to matter, the 360 port being better is a nonfactor.
For large tournaments there is also the “Evo” standard looming over everyone as well.
Interesting points, Dave. Thank you for enlightening me on this matter. I understand/stood a large part of the points you brought up beforehand, yet a lot of it was new and insightful. I found the Marvel debacle quite interesting, and i think that the movement to console/the MAS sticks really helped that out. It’s certainly a large part as to what kept the dreamcast alive for so long.
But I just thought of something. One of your last lines:
The 2 frame difference is Universal. So it’s not like the Zangief is now magically going to his 720 come out 2 frames faster. So even though he may be putting in that 720, and your holding up, both are going to come out 2 frames slower than the 360 version, so If this makes a big difference…well… I’m not sure. The same rule applies in the ST Fireball example.
Now, playing on a converter that lags? That would certainly make a difference. But when both players have the same…disadvantage(?) I think things become a little different.
I could be dead wrong though.
I don’t want to jump into this PS3 vs 360 debate but the tester didn’t state whether the PS3 runs slower than the 360 version for example if you play SF2 turbo in turbo 1 vs turbo 3 your button press would naturally come out faster on turbo 3 even if you press the button at the same time. So does this mean that Turbo 1 has lag vs turbo 3?
Also I think biggest factor in selecting a console is reliability, what if you get RROD or YLOD in a tournament grand finals? When Evo pick first pick PS3 as the tournament console the 360 failure rate were like 54%. Also if you were a tournament organizer would you invest in buying ten 360 thinking that close to half will likely to fail? or buy 10 PS3 with 10-15% failure rate? Which one is better investment?
actually i guess the story behind Evo going with Playstation back in the day was because Sony had agreed to lend several consoles to the tournament and sponsor it so it was an easy decision for Evo to choose Playstation and then this leads into Dave’s point about the ever-menacing “Evo standard” that most tourneys abide by. i believe i heard this story from either Seth Killian or Keits, both Evo staff so i would consider this reliable
Spencer - no one is going to get mad over this but i still just think your “reasoning” (or lack thereof) is just terrible and way off. i feel like we are just agreeing to disagree on this one. hahaha. by the way Puff also needs a ride from us so that is 7 people. Brent, Mike, Gary, Spencer, Puff, FJ, Greg. can you drive separately? FJ had mentioned something to me about it but as i reminded him if he can’t find his way from IPFW to IN Tech in less than 2 hours and get lost 5 times i don’t trust him taking our crew from Fort Wayne to Columbus and back 
I think I’m just more dodging the key points and getting wrapped up in the insignificant details, or rambling, or letting my mind wonder…which is what I normally do.
…and why the fuck is tampons a tag for this thread?
Also, Mike, your friends want to come with us? We’ll have the room and it’ll be more money for you/less money for gas/car.
do Mike’s 2 BB friends also want to come? very neat!
hey Spencer, even though i cannot answer at work keep in touch with me regarding any possible movie plans for either Scott Pilgrim or Untouchables. i will keep my phone nearby and check for messages in the afternoon until 5pm.
Hey Milan your favorite movie is coming out this wednesday, Vampires Suck? You interested?
Randy Couture fire punch!
I’ll just leave this here:
IPLAYWINNER SUPER STREET FIGHTER 4 TIER LIST - AUGUST2010 - iPLAYWINNER - FIGHTING GAME NEWS STRATEGY & MEDIA
i figured Cammy would be right up top on the next listing. now that Chun-Li is still listed up top we can tease Mynd Dave even longer :arazz:
Juicebox is coming to SB5 now. Spencer, please refrain from creaming your pants.
Hey gang, Justin is coming this weekend to CBB3 so let’s get him! :tup:
I’m not a big fan of Juicebox. He’s entertaining to watch, but he’s not my fav.
Also…WWHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA???
Bringing out Justin Wong for a “local” tourney!? I’m baffled at this new development.
That said, it better be Gary v. Justin in the finals.
yeah right. we’ll see how long it takes you to run up to JBA with a Bison buck in hand and ask for a signature and picture.