In that viper match you did good nice pressure i mean the guy you were up against wasnt flash metroid but still really solid play. You can SPD those deep low eletric punches. Also watch for the cross up flame kick things those are really easy to punish with a lariet. Also you can KKK Lariet those sysmos and build meter but once they start fake sysmoing be carefull with that.
VS ibuki if you build up some meter KKK larieting the low kuni before you go on the offence it stops her from doing the over head foot stomp also if you get the knock down go for the in air mix up it seems like you figured that out toward the second of the first round her biggest weakness vs gief is her lack of a good wake up game. Also make sure you punish all those jump in with AA lariet. Although that ibuki really didnt seem to know how to run a descent vortex which can be nasty but less so vs gief.
You look good in all those matches. My main advise would be to get some better comp. The people you were playing didnt seem to know the matchup that well. Alot of them were jumping in on gief which any halfway descent player wouldnt do. I would suggest playing in ranked trying to get to the point where you are only playing people with 3000-5000 PP. Anyone who can get that many PP points knows the matchup and you get alot of variety.
I thought I’d take this one since my friend mains claw and it’s the matchup I get the most practice at.
My initial impressions of the claw were that he was a bit hesitant and wasn’t very aggressive with his pokes and claws are really good. He didn’t try to poke as much as I expect from a claw player, so this allows you to advance a little or use KKK lariat for a little bar (a side effect is that it may goad claw into advancing to try and punish). Go for a crouching bulldog though. Crouching puts you in a good position to lariat a jump-in, nets you an SPD post slide block (One of his first pokes in that first match was a slide that hit you) and the worst vega can threaten with is a jump-in or his overhead, both of which are riskier options.
A couple of times I saw you corner him and once you got KD in the corner I saw a cross-up. Don’t need to do that. Good vega players shit themselves because head-butt is so good on vega when he’s cornered. It beats pretty much all his wake-up options besides a lucky flip-kick (although if that happens that’s more you mis-timing meaty headbutt) and his U2 (meaty headbutt stuffs startup of claw’s U1) If you see him try and jump out with a wall-jump/dive then just throw out headbutt early. This tends to make vega players sit there and get command thrown (watch out for back-flips to make throws/anything whiff so they can punish, but if you expect it just wait a little then throw, or if you’re doing repeated head-butts then you tend to tag recovery of short backflip with the second. long backflip can be punished on reaction in the corner.
If vega has bar and is out of poke range watch out for his EX stuff. His biggest threat are EX skyhigh and EX wall-dive. It’s hard not to get hit by sky high so don’t worry about it too much, but early mid-round it’s mainly wall-dive you tend to see and EX sky high isn’t a big deal early to mid round.
A couple of times I saw you go for a fierce SPD after a blocked crystal flash. use Jab always in that situation. Even with jab it’s an oddly inconsistent punish and sometimes vega is safe on block. You have to try and eye-ball it.
Meaty lariat did stuff some jump-aways on his wakeup, but that felt a bit too risky to me. a couple of times it was blocked/whiffed and the vega didn’t really net a massive punish so you were kind of lucky. That said when I expect jumping I tend to go C.lk -> EX hand and that’s not particularily safe either (although it can be FADC if you have bar I suppose …oh and also you can use normals like c.lk to tick into command throw)
I think at one point I saw you get thrown out of the startup of EX SPD. against vega it’s not really something you need to do that much/at all. normal SPD has quick enough startup to deal with most things (and I’m not sure about whether vega has frame-traps and if he does then they may not even be EX SPDable because of the range his claw tends to leave you at.
I saw you try for a jumping aerial in response to a wall-dive follow-up. I don’t think you need to do this (and if you must then not with J.HP) I tend to sit on the ground and lariat any response, although that leads me onto ultra choice. Nothing wrong with U1, it’s a great Ultra, but personally I find U2 is great against vega to relieve his wall-dive pressure and generally forces him to be less annoying with all his air stuff. Blocked EX wall-dive when you are in the corner leads to a reasonably simple blizzard punish that if done right my claw friend can’t ever seem to avoid. The other reason I pick U2 over U1 is because claw’s super is really good now and will beat lariat pretty much every time (if gief has no bar and no U2 lit then claw’s super is pretty much free damage for him when you fight a good one). There are one or two other options but a good claw will learn how you avoid/stuff it and take steps to land it next time. Blizzard makes him not bother trying and if he does you bust out U2 to either punish or force him to whiff it.
In general I noticed you do a lot of ticking and not much SPDing. The claw didn’t seem to back-flip out of pressure too much so you could possibly have got away with more command throw shenanigans. I saw a few times you hit with a tonne of jabs/shorts and wound up pushing him out of range. That many ticks also gives him more time to think about what you are doing. personally I could see you do some ticking into SPD into a bigger variety of ways which makes you much more intimidating and makes the other person nervous and twitchy. This is good.
Tick - Throw
Tick Tick - Throw
A couple of times I saw this from you:
Tick Tick Tick Tick oh he’s out of range of almost everything now maybe he’ll try jumping - S.HK
I also at one point saw
c.jab c.jab - dash forward - fierce SPD.
Where personally I think it’d have been quicker, safer and easier to
c.jab c.jab - jab SPD.
because I think you were still in range for that. Sure it’s less damage, but you get the KD and a jab green hand back in for a mixup, all the while reducing the 20 odd frame window of vulnerability to at least a quarter of that.
Hope that’s some food for thought. I’m sure my vs claw isn’t perfect either and everyone has their habits, but I guess that’s why you posted asking for some constructive criticism. It makes me want to buy a new digital camera so I can do the same. Watch this space.
In general though I’d like to think I have the claw match pretty much tied down in terms of experience so if you have any other questions let me know and I’ll see if I can help with them.
i actually played flashmetroid, two days ago… since i’m down here in miami. The guy is a fucking beast and owns the gief match up. He would change up the range of the thunder knuckle and for some reason i couldn’t grab it, even when it was almost deep. I pretty much got better in the match up but i still could not get in on the guy. He makes viper seem god like. I know this match up vs average players but vs people like flash which is the best viper in t he country… i’m kind of lost.
I just played in a tourny down here in miami, which i won’t be down here for much long… .it was called south florida shodown and i had a chance to play 2 solid ibuki. The first one scraped me… i didn’t know wtf to do. The guy didn’t jump, only played footsies and only followed up after a untechable knock down. If, i tried to focus his kuni he would land and do a neck breaker . So what can you do vs the high kuni and vs the low kuni if you know it’s coming? Also, is there a consistent way to punish her kuni dp, even when she tries to make it safe with a kuni ??
Alright i will try to play more rank but i really don’t like playing online that much. I guess it’s good to learn the match ups and shit and then when i go to a tourny i can apply what i learned to that … thanks for the critique .
I thought I’d take this one since my friend mains claw and it’s the matchup I get the most practice at.
My initial impressions of the claw were that he was a bit hesitant and wasn’t very aggressive with his pokes and claws are really good. He didn’t try to poke as much as I expect from a claw player, so this allows you to advance a little or use KKK lariat for a little bar (a side effect is that it may goad claw into advancing to try and punish). Go for a crouching bulldog though. Crouching puts you in a good position to lariat a jump-in, nets you an SPD post slide block (One of his first pokes in that first match was a slide that hit you) and the worst vega can threaten with is a jump-in or his overhead, both of which are riskier options.
RESPONSE:
ok, doesn’t claw’s backflip have reversal properties, meaning he can get away from meaty attacks. Because, i have tried to do cr.lp os sweep and it sweeps if he does his double backflip. ok so, once i have claw in the corner do i just keep him at bay with mp headbutt or hp headbutt, even though hp headbutt comes out slower but does 100 more stun, would that be the right choice in this matter?
This tends to make vega players sit there and get command thrown (watch out for back-flips to make throws/anything whiff so they can punish, but if you expect it just wait a little then throw, or if you’re doing repeated head-butts then you tend to tag recovery of short backflip with the second. long backflip can be punished on reaction in the corner.
If vega has bar and is out of poke range watch out for his EX stuff. His biggest threat are EX skyhigh and EX wall-dive. It’s hard not to get hit by sky high so don’t worry about it too much, but early mid-round it’s mainly wall-dive you tend to see and EX sky high isn’t a big deal early to mid round.
RESPONSE:
Well, that’s my way of trying to getting the max damage that i can get. Hp does 220 i think and lp does 170, i 'm trying to condition myself to knowing when and where i can use my damage out put to my advantage, if that makes any sense to you.
RESPONSE:
Yeah, i know that’s kind of risky. I haven’t figured out the block strings that i want to use to keep people locked down when they try to jump away. Cr.lk use get’s stuff, i’m still figuring that out but i will try and go for something like .cr.lk cr.lp cr.lk and if they stand up i get the hit confirm into ex hand but i am just not to confident with it yet .
RESPONSE:
What normal should i use then, if any to follow up or get damage from it ?
RESPONSE:
I guess, i have to condition myself into using u2 EVEN THOUGH I FUCKING HATE THAT ULTRA. i will have to find some uses for it in specific match ups, because it just seems totally ass and risky as fuck, even for punishing.The only reason, i would use it for is mind games, to make them think i will use so, they will be less afraid to jump away or jump in.
yeah, i was trying out things, … like, i was making sure he wasn’t trying to jump back or pressing buttons, because he would have got tagged. I also was mostly using it for hit confirming.I kind of scared to go for the cr.lk like i said before.I know it has been a month or 2 now, and i should have that shit down that’s my fault and i need to level up NO EXCUSES.
A couple of times I saw this from you:
Tick Tick Tick Tick oh he’s out of range of almost everything now maybe he’ll try jumping - S.HK
RESPONSE:
I use that to punish people for trying to jump away when i don’t have meter.
RESPONSE:
on the cr.lpx2 to dash… i mostly use to catch them if i think they are going to dash back and if they don’t i can spd if they tried to back dash… i would be in perfect range for a lp spd but since he didn’t i went for max damage
thanks man… i really appreciate those who did care to help and not complain about something that’s easily solved by muting their volume, if they didn’t like the music… thanks again i will try my best to get better using some of the things you told me …thanks for the food for thought.
You can’t grab any thunder knuckles. You MIGHT be able to ultra lp thunder knuckle if it’s done at point blank range. As for the Ibuki match up, I would jump less in trying to advance on her. Just focus through kunais or just block. I wouldn’t lariat too much against her unless it’s AA because she can punish easily with neck breaker. Also, if she tries to vortex you, you can just get out by EX 360K and you’ll catch her as she lands. Gief is not safe to vortex with Ibuki.
As for the music comment, it’s annoying to watch watch matches with dance beats going on in the back ground. I know you want to be like your hero vegita-x and all (I don’t know why he puts dance beats in his videos either) but can’t you just stick with the regular game sounds? I only watched your Ibuki match because I couldn’t stand anymore beats. And for the record, if you put rap there, I would have turned it off immediately. So for everyone’s sake, just stick with the regular sounds. And you’re the first to start calling people out on stupid shit without providing very much constructive feedback. I’m surprised you get to sensitive when people tell you to turn off your dance beats. If you want people to help you out, at least start showing other people more respect.
I show everyone respect. I don’t just run around here disrespecting people… i doubt there’s more than 1 person that can say on here that i have disrespect them in any way shape or form, so i don’t know what you mean. No, one is being sensitive… i actually don’t give a shit rather a person likes the music or not honestly. The only thing that does bother me, is the fact that i came here for help and you guys are just bitching about something that has nothing to do with what i asked, it’s trolling or overall just spamming the thread with something that has nothing to do with what i asked. 3 people said that … so, it’s like you guys are thinking … fuck him and him asking for help, i just want to run my mouth on something that has no place or revelance to what i asked. THAT’S WHY I GOT PISSED.
I mean, i barely come on here for help and for the most part, i try to help out people as best as i can. If someone asks a question no matter how basic it is, i will answer them and not put stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with what they are looking for. And for the record, i’m not trying to be like vegita x, LET’S JUST MAKE THAT CLEAR. I have been making youtube videos before i even came on srk or videos with music before i can knew about srk. My other account got suspended on some bs, it was bboyknoledge i had like 1400 videos, so yeah . I don’t know why you are so compelled to put things that has nothing to do with what people ask, now that’s annoying. but fuck it info is info regardless
I’ll just list responses in the order you asked them:
When I corner vega I go for HP headbutt. More stun, better hit-box, more hit/blockstun so it’s easier to combo off, and the dizzy factor tends to make people block like crazy so you can use it to tick throw (and also you can use the threat of head-butt to empty jump-command throw too.
In the blocked crystal flash situation using HP SPD is basically saying “hit me” it’s just a waste of an opening going for that because of the damage. It’ll land once in a blue moon if ever. Like I said jab is already an inconsistent punish for that as best. With regards to your SPD strength Jab will land in more situations for less damage. That’s obvious, but I’m not sure you’re thinking about your wakeup mixup you get. Jab SPD gives your more openings into mixups. If you guess right you get an SPD or an combo off of the jab SPD. In a blocked crystal flash HP SPD gets you nothing at best and punished at worst. It’s just a matter of experience and practice to find what strength of SPD works in what situation. Personally I tend to go for jab in most situations when I’m trying to pressure because I feel the mixup I get after is worth it the reduced damage since LP SPD punishes so many things. In crossup situations yeah use fierce or suplex for sure, and post SPD the jab green hand puts you in HP SPD range so you’ll get big damage off the throw mixup after the jab. This last paragraph is all pretty vague, but yeah it’s a point I thought I’d argue as an example since you’re not going to be able to fierce SPD everything.
If vega is wall-diving me I use lariat to beat izunas and trade with barcelona, although if you only expect the barcelona attack you can Focus absorb then dash to SPD (or if he lands in front of you releasing the attack) The only thing vega I feel vega can really threaten with is his super. EX sky high has no follow-up and most of his wall-dive damage tends to come from launching with EX wall-dive, lariat trades with barcelona and beats izuna most of the time. Blizzard shuts down super when lit, otherwise it’s usually something you have to dodge with an EX hand (assuming you have bar) or a lucky c.mp can stuff it if it’s not a cross-up super.
Regarding U2 vs claw it’s not something you need to worry about it too much. Like I said I use it mainly for these reasons:
Kills vega’s super
If you wind up in the corner you can punish a blocked EX wall-dive with blizzard
Stops vega wall-diving or wall bouncing out of the corner.
Against bad players you’ll land it really easily if they use lots of wall-dive, but generally the reasons I listed are why I prefer U2 against claw. It’s not something you need to land every single time you get it lit, but I personally find it great to shut down vega’s high mobility options. The more I use U2 in matchups like that the more I enjoy it because it’s such a massive “f*ck you” to anyone who used to have an easy and brainless high mobility corner escape. Blizzard works great as a deterrent and you don’t even need to land it at every opportunity but it helps so much if you can threaten with it in certain specific situations (fun bonus option is to nail vega for trying a cheeky overhead with df + mk)
I didn’t respond to every one of your responses because you showed you were trying some different things like the C.lp x 2 into forward dash so there are at least some ideas knocking around in those areas. To be honest that c.lp x2 into dash to counter their back-dash is an interesting idea, it’s just never crossed my mind because the forward dash does leave you quite vulnerable if they’re going to reversal or jump or whatever but still…I’ll give that a little thought.
YES, i have been messing around with that for a little bit now. I mean, it’s one of those things, if you can read a person’s pattern and you know for sure they are going to back dash, you can even land a ultra from off that depending on whose back dash your chasing. Also, that adds another mix up, because what if next round you never do it… they will be looking for it and if you have your option selects down and they try and back dash you can do option select sweep. I just wanted to try something different, but risky because you might eat a srk if they are mashing lmao. thanks for your input. I will try and add more set ups to punish back dashes.
To be fair now that I think about it with a fresh head and a cup of coffee in my hand then that might actually be one of the safer methods to deal with back-dashes if you get the perfect read. Zangief is by his nature quite unsafe anyway, so even if the forward dash is unsafe it’s going to set you up for a command throw of some sort, which is the best option gief has when he wants to go for some big damage. I commented on the forward dash as I thought you were doing the dash in purely to get into HP SPD range which compared to a LP SPD which imo is a less risky option. That was all.
Well, yeah man, i have been thinking about a lot of what i should be doing, because for certain characters their best option is to back dash, because 1. if the gief player drops the combo htey are safe, 2. if the gief player goes for spd set up then they are out of range … but if you know they have a habit of back dash then forward dash can be very rewarding especially if you KNOW they love to back dash and not press buttons . I wouldn’t recommend this on a masher lol.
Although Vance struggled in the final 8 at Evo, I’m hoping we can still learn something from his matches there. Here are the vids (hopefully they won’t be taken down).
He completely outplayed Infiltration in that first round, but kept getting horribly unlucky.
He missed the lariat at 22 seconds, which would have kept Gouki in the corner. Of course the Ultra miss was tragic, since I thought it was good. Read the teleport at 44 seconds perfectly, and would have had him, but since he was in the corner he was too close and got close standing light kick, which sucks, instead of the comboable far standing light kick. In the other rounds, Infiltration used his risky style of play and guessed right too many times. I think his brand of Gouki loses to Vangief more often than not, but I don’t think Vangief was expecting it, plus the pressure of being in the top 6 couldn’t have helped.
The Ricky counterpick was tragic, but Vance made a lot of opportunities to win it. I think even with Siberian Blizzard, with the buffs to Chun Li this match got a lot worse for Zangief in Super.
All in all, Vance has been such an inspiration to me, and I’m sure a lot of other Zangiefs around the world. I was praying to see a Daigo vs. Vangief matchup, but oh well. And to think, a Zangief made it further than a Boxer. I’d say this EVO is a success. lol
Vance, thanks for all the awesome shit at EVO, you’ve definitely made this Zangief proud. :tup:
I was on twitter, while watching the tournament and i have zangitan on my twitter… and even he was going for vangief. A few other gief players from japan was going for vangief also. Like koji kog for one but other’s are just gief players from japan. I could tell you this at least 40k people seen how good vangief did and have seen that any character can do it. I mean, he gives inspiration to everyone, showing that pad player or stick player can do it. THANKS VANCE YOU REALLY SHOOK UP THE FUCKING HOUSE WITH YOUR GIEF.
True say, i completely forgot about boxer. I didn’t expect to see no sagat, no boxer, no m.bison, no dudley in top 8. But i must say while i am impressed and happy vangief made it so far, why is everyone so surprised? I mean gief was far from crap in vanilla(just had some shitty match ups) and with the drop of sagat i only see him getting better in super.
With that said here are a couple of my matches, sorry for the quality, im no vegeta x but i don’t think i am scrub level either
i hate the dee Jay matchup its new to me so im barely learning it lol i kno kno Ultra 2 will work against Dee Jay
[media=youtube]UqlHObj0Y3g[/media]
[media=youtube]qACGkzpgxRU[/media]