your complaint has already been addressed in that mvc3 is a ‘separate’ entity from mvc2 so it would follow that capcom would, at the minimum, try to create a cast with many viable characters
but to try and get some insight into how you think about this: would you say that 3rd strike is more balanced than mvc2 since it has more viable characters?
oh yeah and by “capcom would, at the minimum, try to create a cast with many viable characters” i am alluding to that they might homogenize everything through some dumb universal mechanic but yeah
I don’t particularly think that it’s the characters, as having a system that compliments each character. To me 3rd strike seems to have a system of how things work and how Capcom thought through so many different aspects of how people would think in certain situations, and I think that every character in that game really has something to compliment or combat every other character. Sure some people are stronger than others, but never do I feel like I couldn’t beat anyone else in that game if I practice enough. MvC2 just doesn’t feel that way to me is all. Sure I may be wrong, but that’s just from my personal experience with the game.
Honestly there’s nothing wrong with wishing for a higher percentage of characters to be viable at higher levels, or at least usable. I mean, look at ST. That Inomata guy is insane with T.Hawk versus players of equal skill level and although he may not always win tournaments he can do well. In 3S you have that guy who plays Q and that other guy who plays Hugo, they do pretty well.
Now if you try that in Marvel unless you’re VDO you have like no chance in hell, haha. Even then VDO uses people in what, third tier?Fourth?Not shit tier by any means, but higher than the worst tier.
Conversely, Marvel 2 isn’t unbalanced when played at the highest level, it really does have very diverse tactics and styles of play despite the low viable/inviable character ratio due to the 3v3 team structure.
I mean, I know there’s always going to be a low tier and there’s always going to be a high tier, but when Marvel 3 rolls around I’d like it to keep the craziness of 2 but have the tier spread that a game like Tekken or SF4 has where you can use practically any character at a high level and compete against god tier, even if you don’t always win the tournament.
Instead of nerfing everything, why not buff weaker characters?
wow man, you explained that way better than I could’ve lol. I don’t always explain things the way I’d like to, but then again that comes from me not always knowing exactly what I’m talking about, but I really do agree with what you were saying, and that’s pretty close to what I was trying to say.
because a lot of people seem to look at the top tier in marvel and instead of saying “wow, these characters have a lot of options and bring more to the table than characters in almost any other game, i wish the lower tier characters would be buffed to their level” they say “look at stupid combo game man infinite all day balance game or suck it crapcom just wanna be fav super hero”
I honestly think this would be the best way to do it, too. It works for this sort of game, all the characters should be broken as hell. Not to the point where you can do brain-dead infinites, but each character should have some abusable traps, tricks, infinites that take training and practice to do consistently, i.e. ROM or fly/unfly combos.
one thing to take into account is that the disparity in options between the top and low tiers in marvel is a lot bigger than in 3rd strike. i mean comparing someone like servbot to magneto is a lot different than comparing [a bunch of characters] to chun. magneto is entirely more powerful than servbot but the possibility space is also exponentially bigger with him, whereas [a bunch of different characters] in 3rd strike aren’t that different from chun aside from some dumb variables and her hit-confirm into a huge super that allows two stocks
basically what i’m getting at is the ‘problem’ of ‘balance’ in mvc2 is a lot different than that of other games because in a lot of other games the top tier might just do more damage, have more priority, and easier ways to utilize those things whereas in mvc2 the top tier has, to a ludicrous extent, more options and room for player skill than a majority of the cast.
what a lot of people need to ask themselves is whether they like playing a game with a lot of options and possibilities or one where players reach what is effectively a skill-ceiling in regards to engine and character possibilities after not too long
That makes sense. If I had to choose it would have to be the former rather than the latter.A game of infinite possibilities sounds a hell of a lot more entertaining than one that would top off at some point. There’s only so many times you can see Chun hit confirm into super all tourney long for the win, or see Yun do the same tired Genei Jin stunts.
I just worry that Capcom is gonna be concerned about selling 5 million copies and attracting every SF4-worshipping couch potato by nerfing all “brokenness” ala SF4. If there’s a lesson to learn from Marvel it’s don’t take out every powerful technique just because you can’t find a way make every character equal – compress the tiers, sure, but leave in plenty of Wacky in playtesting
but can’t there be lots of options and possibilities while having a good engine and character possibilities as well? Can’t there be a healthy combination of both?
whether you like unintended things in an engine is one issue while the issue of whether they add depth can be considered objective as far as most people that can think are concerned. i am a big supporter of having a cast full of viable characters but it’s not really an issue to me if there is a small number with a high amount of complexity and depth. i think people’s inabilty to deal with something like this is because they are so used to the idea of a ‘fighting’ game that is supposed to have ‘a bunch of cool characters that can win’ that they can’t really separate the game from the presentation.
Hey that’s what draws alot of people to games like MvC. The idea of playing as their favorite characters against other characters. To pretend that a varied & viable cast of fan favorites isn’t an important part or draw factor for a game like this is pretty ignorant.
i’m not saying it isn’t a draw for the game, just that if you’re strictly talking design it’s pretty extraneous to the game. believe me, i enjoy having lots of characters that i like too and most of the characters that i like in mvc2 are low tier
those people will play it for 5 minutes and then probably never play it again. Tournament players will play it for a decade and some of us play every day.
Funny thing is MvC2 was the game that started all these auto combos and easy mechanics.Spam a few beams get that chip damage , and use the supers and its almost a certain win. MVC2 may have had a huge scene but when it comes down to it . A game shouldn’t reduce the majority of its cast to being obscure. People complain about variety and stagnation in fighting games and the whoring out of characters look at MvC2 and think were all the bullshit has come from.
well not really. A1\VS and DH\xvsf are all circa the same time frame and these games promoted auto combo’s since these games were chain system games. XvSF had some of that going on too. Charlie can chain combo pressure, anit guard cancel super for chip damage, dash back in, with delay mixup throws. Its been around for quite some time.
top tier marvel does consist of only a few characters, but thats capcom games for you. EVERY capcom game has a small top tier most of the time. A2, 3s, ST, mvc2 etc… Capcom has only truly balanced one game and it happens to be vampire savior where 90% of the characters can be played successfully in tournaments. So saying I’m tired of seeing the same characters isn’t really important since 95% of capcom games suffer from this. You must hate all capcom games then right?
of the playable top tier characters, they all have room to grow after 10 years of competitive play. How many games can say that? marvel has changed shape every year as far as top tiers are concerned. Someone figures out something about the engine and now the whole game is flipped around and top tiers tactics now change. The engine is open in mvc2, its so free to manipulate and the game doesn’t stay stagnant, it can’t. I could play mvc2 for another 10 years and I guarantee you the game will have different tactics available.
Shoultzula, people don’t understand that because they don’t understand the gameplay. They only see the most obvious thing; that everyone is playing the same teams. That they might be playing them ten times more advanced or in a totally different style than they were played seven years ago doesn’t register to them because they are too dumb to see it.
Well you are. Good players play good characters, or at least suck it up and accept that it’s their fault when they lose because they chose to use a shitty character.