Im thinking the majority of casual user reviews id find would say the controls feel smooth
The Majority of people voted for George Bush in 2004.
DevilJin. These are user reviews. Take a peak, I warn you it’s hard to stomach:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/street-fighter-v/user-reviews
The majority of people have no idea WTF they’re talking about. The reviews that actually mention gameplay just copy and paste stuff from the games description about the V-Trigger system and whatnot. These people will find anything to complain about because the game sucks. If the game was good, then they’d be looking on the bright side. They’d be saying what’s good with the game, and then list the problems that need fixed.
This goes back to my old posts and I’m not going to repeat myself, but you make a good game, people will come. This isn’t black and white, obviously you need both. You need to have solid online and the features that people expect from a game in 2016, all the casual stuff, but you also need a great base game. If you have all the features in the world but the base game isn’t so great the game will have middling success. If you have the best most perfect fighter ever designed but it’s missing the casual cake people expect, the game will be middling, or even a bomb.
In this day and age, yeah, the “cake” as I call it probably is more important, sadly, but even so, I promise you if you took 1000 of these people, cut them in half 500 in room A where the game has solid hitboxes and no input delay and room B where the game is how it is now, Room A is more happy even if they don’t understand why. It’s called the difference between a good video game and a bad video game and all the cake in the world doesn’t matter if the game is fundamentally jacked, like having poor hit detection and bad input delay. Those are phrases you’ll read about in a video game enthusiast review not some random scrub user review. Period
Deviljin. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgA_qNvm8Mc
Listen to what Shiggy says. “The game feel is amazing”. I’m paraphrasing, but that’s it. He get’s it. That’s not something you’re going to ever hear in a User Review and sadly even most professional journalists have lost the plot these days, and few of them understand fighters period since the death of GameFan. But yeah. Shiggy get’s it that’s why he is where he is, and I’m sure that game will be insanely successful. Capcom is like you lost thinking casual features will save SFV, not the case, they lack a good producer who understands things that are unspoken fundamental and absolutely key to the success of a video game.
Since nobody reads big posts. You need both. If the game has good controls and hit detection, that’s only half the puzzle, gamers expect the casual content to be there as well. If you release the perfect fighting game but it is barebones and has no extra’s ALA Virtua Fighter 3 on Dreamcast, your success will be limited. If you release a game chock full of casual user content but the game has bad hit detection and laggy controls, IE the game sucks, then your success will be limited. You need both. I can’t understand how anyone could argue against this, it’s pretty simple.
Sorry to break it to you, but most casuals barely play one fighting game at a time and they put a lot of time between each new game. In other words, they won’t have anything to compare the game they’re playing to, so unless the game is REALLY unresponsive they generally won’t feel the difference between 5 and 8 frames of lag. I mean, they mostly play against the AI anyway, do you really think these things even matter when you play against the CPU?
I also know a lot of people that think that older games had less lag just because they didn’t play them in a long time and they couldn’t compare them to anything new. They “felt” right at the time just because there was nothing better around. See, everyone might lack some experience.
People who can feel those differences are clearly used to play the same kind of games regularly. Nobody will play SFV as his first fighting game and say “hmm, I feel there’s about 2.3 additional frames of delay”, it just doesn’t make sense by sheer logic no matter how many videos you post about that.
Yes, this is SRK, a place where people mostly play at a certain competitive level and ARE therefore sensible to stuff like input lag. Do you really wonder that people here could be aware of 1f of input lag in a game that required a lot more execution?
They will rather say “that’s the way the game is”. You don’t feel something is wrong unless there’s something right to compare it to.
Is it possible to eliminate input lag (in fighting games) completely?
No. There is an inherent amount of lag or time it takes for the information from your button press to reach the console and then to your monitor. That’s the basic lag that any game will come with.
Read through those metacritic articles and didn’t see anything about the input lag, so yeah. Don’t need to have a conversation about that anymore.
Technically it is possible. Skull Girls is pretty close at 28ms, that’s less than 2 frames.
It’s completely possible for the game to process the input and change the next frame in under 16.67ms. It’s up to the game developer. The answer is yes.
The way video game and display tech works, the best CRT, means that the next frame will change. Time moves forward so we perceive that as instantaneous. So I wouldn’t count that as delay if the next displayed frame the instant after the button push changes, therefor classic game consoles have 0f of lag unless programmed otherwise. Input delay is a mostly a new phenomena thanks to HDTV’s.
Sorry to break it to you, but…
…What??
So, most casuals play a lot of different games, therefor they won’t have anything to compare it to… ummm… except, you know, all those other fighting games they play. There is zero logic in what you just said. mIRC’s point stands. You don’t have a point and your ‘connection’ makes no sense.
It helps to get your facts straight. SFV has an additional 4 frames of input delay over SFIV. That’s twice as much delay. That’s horrid. Awful. Bad. 9/10 people can tell the difference between the PS3 and 360 versions of Ultra SFIV. That’s a 1 frame difference. People go out of their way, gamers all over the internet those who are smart to avoid bad TV’s that have lots of lag. A bad, laggy TV might add anywhere from 3-5 frames, you want ones that have 2 or under, and for gaming you go for ones that have less than 1. 4 frames of lag is bad. Period. End of story. There is no metric where it’s “ahh nah that’s not bad pffft barely noticeable”. Maybe on Planet Shit Standards in the Lowered Expectations galaxy.
I really don’t get you. I’ve never met, in my life, nor read in my life, until now, someone who defends input delay in a fighting game. This is akin to the “30 FPS is more Cinematic” folks back in the day defending 30fps out of some misguided console vs. PC fanboy thing. Are you a Capcom fanboy like what’s going on here.
Huh. Wha. What? I don’t understand your statement.
They could say either of those things. Another possibility is that they just subconciously know it sucks but don’t know enough to articulate it, they’ll just stop playing. Or a million other interpretations and reactions to something that sucks. He’s not wrong, and neither are you, but you just want to feel like you’ve won the argument. That’s all your interested in, you’re not interested in getting to the Truth through a discussion.
I don’t really have anything worthwhile to add, but I often look at SFV and wonder how it’d do in an Arcade setting. I still see people saying Japan plays SF4 on the regular even if there are some consoles with SFV around. I know it isn’t the same as playing on an actual cabinet, but…is that factor alone enough to deter them to not play SFV? I find that hard to believe.
I really wish this game would’ve gotten an Arcade version. I know fighting games are mainly console exclusive nowadays, but still.
What’s so hard to understand in “they put a lot of time between each new game”?
You never met it. You just created this idea of me in your own mind because I was contradicting your statements about why casuals are dropping this game and then you stopped reading what I said.
Read the fucking thread name and the first post. It says:
"Fix the 8 frames to rescue this game from its poor sales"
You and the other guy went on telling that yes, the reason why casuals aren’t buying SF5 is that because they secretly feel the inputs are off even if they can’t spell it, or even dumber stuff like the pros making the hype for the entire community. I just stated that this is purely nonsensical and that you were projecting on the casual gamer your needs and feelings as an experienced players, because the real reason why casual players are dropping the game are lack of single player content and - for the even smaller part of them that happens to play online - dysfunctional online multiplayer. The evidence for that is overwhelming compared to the few people that say that the game inputs “feel slightly off”.
If 8f of delay was fixed while everything else stood unchanged, I’d say SF5 sales would go up by 0,1%. And I’m being generous.
P.S. you’re not searching for the Truth™. You’re just in a campaign to remove 8f of lag from SF5 and using the most ridiculous and unnecessary arguments ever to achieve your goal. It’s not because your cause is right that any means will go to defend it.
I’m shocked they didn’t do an arcade version. Money left on the table. Arcades in the US have had a resurgence, my friend would have gladly purchased 5-10 units, Dave N Busters is always starving for new games, there are thousands of DNB locations. Japan could have moved 10,000 kits or dedicated machines.
No it’s not the kind of money that would even recoop the development costs, but there’s good profit and good revenue and a lost opportunity.
Also it killed any chance of the game having a Japanese scene, Daigo has spoken out about this.
It’s not dumb. Ok. You’re dumb.
Everyone in this thread get’s it, except for you, and DJ, but I think he get’s it now.
As I’ve already stated. There are multiple reasons for this games failure. Well I shouldn’t say failure but, luke warm reception and middling success. The input delay and poor hit detection are absolutely 2 reasons for this. Just because not everyone is intelligent enough to be able to articulate terms like this that you’d really only see used on hardcore video game forums or from professional video gaming journalists does not change this fact.
There’s many elements to what makes a movie good and what makes a movie bad. Unless you are a director or screen play writer or in the business of making movies, or you’re a hardcore fan who follows the industry closely, these are things that would go over the head of general audiences, yet they are absolutely key to a movie or video games success.
In the other thread I posted Shigeru Miyamoto’s Apple announcement of the Mario game. He details how much time they spent on “getting the feel right” and how key that is, and it’s something they are currently perfecting. You will never see a user review of that game ever mention things like hit detection or input delay yet these things are absolutely fundamental to what makes a good game good. If you don’t have these things down and other fundamental things, the game will not be good, and I don’t care how much pointless casual content you throw into the game… and this issue is easily fixed but if people like us don’t speak up and let capcom know it needs fixed then it will not be fixed. Or maybe we just pray there is a producer there who figures it the fuck out, or maybe it is already being fixed who knows.
Secretly people hate the game because of the input delay and hitboxes. Yeah. You are correct. 100% on target. Consciously or subconsciously. What people say on Web Forums like here and neoGAF or wherever, you will have a handful of smart people who say yes the input delay sucks but I am trying to make the best of it, people will be talking about other shit. But the point is whether you are smart enough to be aware of these things and educated on them is irrelevant, everyone feels the fucking same game everyone plays the same game.
**I’ll make a promise to you. If Capcom reduces the lag in SFV in the next update by 4 frames or more, casual people that don’t know jack shit will say WOW. OMG. The game is so much better!! Holy crap. That will generate hype. That will generate interest. That will generate sales.
**
If I’m wrong, you can say I told you so. But I won’t give a shit because I’ll be too busy playing SFV 
Ocean, as I’ve already stated, there are many reasons for SFV’s poor sales. Lack of casual content, you betcha. Poor online, you betcha. Laughably bad overly produced story, you betcha. Graphical glitches with clipping on models that shouldn’t have made it out of beta. Shit hit detection and input lag. We can argue the weight each of these issues, and there’s more, we can argue semantics and the weight of each of these issues, but there is no denying that all of them play a part, and I’m not going to repeat my past posts. Gamers like us, well not you, but most people that would be at a place called SHORYUKEN.COM, yes, we are the cheerleaders and champions a Street Fighter game and the hype of the game starts here. If you cross us, then you’re not going to get hype you’re going to get the opposite of that, and now I’m repeating things mIRC and Joey already articulated perfectly.
If you still don’t get it, then you’re never gunna get and you know what that’s fine.
Yeah, I agree. This was the first without an Arcade release, right? I’m one of those people that believe SFXT would’ve had a better chance in Japan had it been released in an Arcade. They were actually working on one, but ended up scrapping it to just focus on consoles.
The only other SF game I can think of without one was EX3, though that wasn’t a main game. Even today, SFEX2 plus is still being played in the Japanese Arcade. GAMEacho has tons of tournaments for Capcom’s (and others) classic fighting games. Definitely a lost opportunity there. Ono said the possibilities of an Arcade release aren’t out of the window yet, but…it seems very unlikely now.
Yes, yes, you pwned me, of course.
Anyway, sorry for trying to make sense. I’ll quietly leave while you and your friend keep building conspiracy theories in the basement.
Lol conspiracy theory? Uhh yeah man. Purple Aliens are the reason SFV has deplorable input delay and laughably bad hitboxes.
What is it with you and conspiracy theories? This is the second time you’ve brought it up. What did you just now figure out that 911 wasn’t what you were told? Wow congrats your IQ is above 80. Truth too much to handle huh? Is that why you’re projecting this on me?
I know I powned you. It’s what I do. Have a nice night.
Shut up conspiracy theorist.
My honest guess as to why there isn’t an arcade version is because the primary arcade platform isn’t PS4 based. Tekken 7 I think is the first PS4 based arcade game, maybe Capcom and Ono are looking at that now that it’s completed, a port would be very easy so I wouldn’t rule it out.
Wait I just put on my tinfoil hat, the aliens told me that I’m wrong, the game will only be successful in Japan if Capcom adds more single player content and enhances the story mode.
Never thought I’d see the day where people defend intentional input delay in SF
Are you saying there is a huge button delay on PS4 compared to PS3?
Well on PS4 Ultra has 5 frames of input lag, on PS3 it’s rounded up to 7. So 2 frame difference + inconsistent performance (various stages drop below 60fps, which is why practically all matches played on PS3 are on training stage) + input delay based netcode, which makes the situation even worse
At least on PS4 in SFV the input lag is constant and isn’t affected by anything else in the game
And this is what makes the online “good” since it closely mimics offline. Still though, capcom needs to fix it.