Wow. I couldn’t have said it better myself; honestly the central struggle of FF7’s seemed for me to be humanity fighting it’s right to live and that connection just fucks it over (the MASSIVE AMOUNT of sequels doesn’t really do anything but cheapen the experience as well)
Bah that editing feature looks balla…
oh and Trigger>Cross
why cant people think that it was actually the al bhed fucking humanity over, just because FFX is added doesn’t simplify things, humanity could still belong to this planet, and the ancients, the al bhed and jenova could all be alien
FFX was a world ruled by religion that did it’s best to stop the al bhed from thriving, a world where the al bhed thrive you’ll find in FF7, they thrived in a world where humanity is early or weaker/without knowledge.
Spira = ruled by religion
Gaia = ruled be technology
both corrupted in their own right
eventhough gaia had the weaker beings they also had the best philosophy, which situated in Cosmo Canyon (possibly knowledge passed down by the ancients)
Wow…I never ever could finish X-2 (only played like 10% of it because I couldn’t stand it much more after that) so I didn’t know about this, however I’m actually in agreement with specs for once, in that each FF should have their own unique universe…however, how can you stop it when the creators themselves say it’s official :shake:.
New info on Tidus and Jecht.
Tidus
?Concept?
"Dodge-Attack"
Though he uses a sword he’s not your everyday swordsman, as he efficiently intergrates his natural athletic abilities to attack while constantly moving about. He is able to shift around into a back stab, making avoiding enemy attacks easier, and leaving him better equipped to quickly respond to enemy attacks as he continues with his evasions. He almost seems to float a bit like Kuja, one of the main points about him that the staff debated hotly.
?Position and Personality?
Always up-beat no matter the surroundings, Tidus is a positively cheerful 17-year-old. He was gathering popularity as a young blitzball star. While he tends to affect everyone’s mood around him, when it comes to his own issues he often loses his temper. But he is also sentimental, and often wears his heart on his sleeve. His possesses very complicated feelings regarding his father Jecht.
?EX Info?
EX-Mode Effect: Weapon change. He switches to Caladbolg.
EX-Mode Bonus: Caladbolg (Raises HP and attack power), Hastega (Increases movement speed - to the point of being able to avoid magic). This also allows the player a bit more reaction time for dodging.
EX-Burst: “Blitz Ace” He slashes rapidly at his opponent, then he tosses a blitzball into the air to shoot at his opponent with an overhead kick. As in the original, a bar appears at the bottom of the screen, with a cursor moving back and forth across it. When the cursor reaches the center of the bar, press the O button to raise the last attack’s power.
Jecht
?Concept?
“Ultimate In-fighter/Super In-fighter”*
He doesn’t use magic, so intend overwhelms his opponent in close-quarters, making him a character suitable for those who like fighting games. He moves quickly, and once he makes the approach, his over-whelming strength easily depletes his opponent’s Brave in fast combos. The fact that his Brave attacks only grow stronger as he gains more Brave make him more dangerous. His combos have many different branches, and their flow changes depending upon the player’s ability to input attacks with optimal timing. In this way, it is possible to cancel out the time between attacks, allowing HP attacks to be integrated into combos.
*Concept titles with a / indicate that more than one term has been used to describe the character’s fighting style.
?Position and Personality?
Jecht is Tidus’ father, and was once a star blitzball star like his son. He lacks the ability to properly express love or other tender feelings, resulting in an extremely rocky relationship with his son. Though he has no desire to rule the world, he is allied with the side of Chaos for his own reasons. This motive will be revealed through the story. In comparison to a shadowy manipulator like Golbez, he is the type who acts without thinking.
?EX Info?
EX-Mode Effect: A transformation based on Braska’s Final Aeon from the original game.
EX-Mode Bonus: No name given. Even if his attack misses, another one can be executed without pause. It is possibly to totally dominate an opponent when they have no time to counter-attack.
EX-Burst: “King of The Blitz” He flings his opponent with a kick, slashes at them with his sword, and then kicks a boulder at them. The same timer bar that Tidus has appears, and the O Button has to pressed went the cursor reaches the center. If you succeed in selecting it the first time, then a second bar appears to power it up further.
from http://community.livejournal.com/ffchaoticcosmos/24979.html
well with a game like Chrono Trigger I’m not surprised
i think the whole problem with it for you guy’s is more like losing the solidified memory of being impressed by the each individual story that we hold dear to our hearts (no emo) people a hundred years from now who would stumble upon the universe of Final Fantasy could extract a lot from it, even the music (thanks to Nobuo Uematsu) has pertaining depth
oh yeah and True Sephiroth, with this information i guess you can see where I was coming from in our debate a couple of months ago
I honestly can’t see that at all. The stories of the FF games are all simplistic and the writing isn’t spectacular. FF7 especially, now that people who have no idea what actually happened decided to mess with the canon plot. Seriously, the side games and FFX-2 all pretty much screwed FF7 up.
They’re all great entertainment, love 'em to death, but literary classics they ain’t.
have you read anything from ancient scripture? from the tablets of ancient sumeria?
do you know what actually makes a story deep? can you read a painting? can you read music? classical music? why is classical music considered deep?
Enticing themes (timely or timeless), believable character growth, meaningful character interaction, characters remaining true to character, and conflict (whether it be combat or simply conflicting opinions) that makes sense within the context of a story. There are other things, too.
That can happen in a Final Fantasy title. It can also happen in Kung Fu Panda.
well you know what, i really give up on some of you. put up a wall if you want, you’re happy i don’t wanna tell you what to think, but you should know that we live in a time where people have no respect or passion for their creations, how can you see depth in something when you have no enthusiasm
Kung Fu panda is a recycled formula like 99% of hollywood movies, recycled and updated with current trends and gimicks, if you edit it a bit, change the music and timing, elaborate on certain emotions of the protagonist then that kung fu panda comment would hold less weight
im tired of this, this is stupid i really need to stop taking this forum seriously
Apt. :tup:
Apt as hell.
FF characters are fine for games, because you accept the trappings of the Final Fantasy universe when you play the games. However, the stories are no work of modern art. The plots are pretty hacky and rely heavily on deus ex machina to get them out of storytelling devices that seem improbable.
They’re great for jrpg’s. Probably the best, considering the amount of character development, but as soon as somebody tries to explain to me why Squall or Cloud are great cultural or artistic figures, their opinion is instantly relegated to garbage. Go read a damned book.
they aren’t great figures they are protagonists that put you into the world, it’s legend not sense and sensibility, you wouldn’t compare hercules to les miserables would you?
You basically did, son.
100 years from now, the FF stories will amount to dick.
These are not timeless classics. The fact that the stories are so loved is a work of fanboy adoration and not cultural impact.
Are the stories great for video game stories? Of course they are.
Are they culturally significant in any way? No, no they are not.
They’re not exceptionally well written. They are not works of art. They are games with a lot of cutscenes and dialogue. Take that for what you will. They are (or were) fun to play, but they are still jrpg’s with storylines just as obvious and plodding as 90’s hollywood action movies, just in a different way.
And yes, I would compare Hercules to Les Miserables. They have both impacted cultures and become part of world lore. They have been revered and read for generations. Final Fantasy games, with the nagging exception of that fucking FF7, have their time in the sun and then return to the fanboy love forums.
The first time they teach kids FF7 in High School, I’m blowing up this goddamned planet.
well that’s only because you have your hate there, im sure hercules was hated by a few good people for whatever reason
as for the whole “games are garbage” opinion i would like to agree with that, but i dont believe we’ve came to a halt in the progression of the psyche of the human race, i don’t think it ends at movies, its debatable that movies don’t hold a candle to reading a book and it’s also debatable that playing video games doesn’t hold a candle to watching a movie
look at chrono trigger for instance, i would say it’s a brilliant game because to me it’s like a very early concept to what games could be in the future, stories that could actually be altered depending on the person playing/experiencing it, you can only alter your perception of a book if it’s lucky to have that attribute (i believe everything does but it just needs to be interesting enough to be found)
like you said yourself FF7 has changed things, yes games don’t hold a candle to books or movies, but not yet, books have been around for thousands of years and movies have been around for over 100 years, and they’re already giving movies a nice run for their money (makes more money than movies)
I’m not putting up any sort of wall. Stories aren’t automatically good just because somebody put pen to paper. Pieces of art can be compared, as can their merits and flaws. It sounds to me like you just want this game series you enjoy to be enjoyed for all the same reasons you enjoy it. THAT’S putting up a wall, around yourself.
That isn’t to say there can’t be strong storytelling in video games. Final Fantasy contains numerous examples of great characters with many layers of depth and room to grow further. It also contains numerous examples of poorly crafted characters who grow and act in contradictory ways. The same applies for themes and other elements of great storytelling: FF has stuff from both sides of the fence, as do a great many game series. That’s why you can have discussions like the various ones that have taken place in this thread.
In fact, one of things I’m hoping Dissidia does well from a storyline perspective is highlight and celebrate the various dissenting ideologies (which is likely what the word Dissidia is derived from) these characters possess, and not just in the respective game pairings. I want Terra to bounce her opinions off of Cloud and see how Cloud responds. I want Kuja to look at Kefka and feel both familiarity and disgust. I want Jecht to, if judged by the likes of Squall or the Warrior of Light, snap back with reasons why such judgments are hypocrisy.
Sadly, I’m not sure how much of today’s Square-Enix is capable of satisfying why grandest hopes for Dissidia, and I’ve prepared for the worst (a mindless button-masher with minimal story where I can beat up Sephiroth with a Taru Taru while ranting about how much worse FF11 is than Superman 64), but there’s potential for excellent narrative here. However, if that potential is not realized, your damn right I’m going to criticize it, and not just accept it because it has several of my most favorite Final Fantasy characters in it.
As for Kung Fu Panda, you’re wrong. Plain and simple. The film explores themes of isolation and helplessness, not only from the protagonist’s perspective but from the person training him. In fact, the master is a great character who is far different from other teacher-types in current fiction: petty, confused, and doubtful, who grows convincingly to believe in the student he once simply wrote off. In addition, it exhibits very little in the way of current pop-culture fluff, unlike, say, Shrek. Hollywood my ass: in 20 years, Kung Fu Panda’s message will STILL be relevant and it will STILL be watchable with little to no prior knowledge needed of the year in which it was made.
Wow, Tidus sounds like a beast.
And are you people seriously still bitching about the storyline in FF games? Come on, now.
^ Given how viable the ability to play a very defensive offense is in just about any competitive game, Tidus might just live up to your hopes of “best in game.”
But he still won’t out-cool his own father.
A discussion != bitching. Nobody is bitching about FF’s storyline.
Anyway,
Agreed. I certainly think it can happen in FF, but it hasn’t yet. It probably won’t happen for a while. Though whether or not they’re literary masterpieces (which they’re not) has no bearing on how good and entertaining they are, in my mind.
Execution is also important too, IMO. A good story can fall flat on its face if it’s executed like Star Ocean 3’s. Execution is actually what the FFs succeed at in my mind; that makes up for any of their individual flaws.
Also, you make a damn good point about Kung Fu Panda, specs.
Also, I like Jecht’s style. Methinks he’ll be one of the people I main for sure.
yeah it is true i am being a little hard on kung fu panda but i don’t personally rank it above the usual hollywood diluted formula because it still is watching something for an hour and a half about someone who is doubtful of his abilities taught by someone else who’s doubtful but are both proven wrong in the end, that thin story interweave between jokes that do correspond to pop culture or the kids watching it wont have the foggiest idea why they bother watching it.
hollywood films are great pieces of work half the time but that’s all it is, with so much money put into it all it really is badly recycled, and a character that’s “a non all knowing teacher” doesn’t deserve millions of dollars in my honest opinion, i just feel we’re all being spoon fed.
well you probably don’t agree with me but to be honest I have a feeling nobody agrees with me with anything I say, everyone get’s annoyed at things but I have no hate for all of you on SRK, i love you guys that’s why im here and not on a UK forum
Jecht kind of sounds like he’ll have some form of CCs to me.