i wont comment on everything but you have a few contradictions.
ill point out that the original sephiroth WAS controlling aclone, i knew this but couldnt remember properly so i left that out, the clone of sephiroth must of been the first sephiroth that you fight at the end. the one embedded in the northern crater didnt have any legs like the last sephiroth you fight.
its not a coincidence that weapon atacked midgar first, its the MAIN and possibly only place sucking energy from the earth, sephiroth isnt a bad guy he was the saviour of the people and of earth, when he read up about everything in nibel thats when he went mad cos he realised the real “bad guys” are humans. sephiroth called them so ofcourse they arent gonna attack him, he summoned meteor because he needed to damage the earth enough to stop the lifestream cycle :arazz:
the sephiroth in AC isnt even the sephiroth that your praising yeah when cloud omnislashed 1’d him it was all mentally/spiritually but the one thing you label sephiroths power with is his will sephiroth pissed his pants when cloud threw him in the lifestream, i wonder why he did that
we cant carry this on because we’re upsetting people, we should carry on in PM
and so is your brain by the looks of it
you’re on a forum, stop pretending
if you get me banned i’ll find you and ban you from earth :mad:
Still no Terra or Kefka on the site. No new videos anywhere? I want to see how Kefka/Terra/Bartz/Exdeath/Cloud play.
Anyone who isn’t interested in more Kefka vs. other villain arguments can just skip this.
[details=Spoiler]
I cannot respond to this as my response would involve breaking the religious discussion rule here on SRK. I will say, however, that you need to REALLY think about what you just said here.
Speaking of things that must stop, stop this “simple evil” nonsense. You’ve yet to establish what this even means. Both Kefka and Superman (the comparison is valid) have human qualities. Not nearly the SAME qualities, but qualities nonetheless. Calling Superman a “simple good” character is ridiculous: it completely disregards the nature of his character (which includes many, many undesirable traits). Calling Kefka a “simple evil” character is equally ridiculous: it completely disregards the nature of his character (which includes his entire philosophy).
Irrelevant. The Joker is in a great many one-shots and has appeared in many canons outside the DC main. The DCAU Joker by Mark Hammil encapsulates classic Joker traits, but is rather different than Heath Ledger’s Dark Knight Joker, which also encapsulates Joker qualities but is an invention newly-created for the latest theatrical Batman film. Point is, despite his history, anytime a new story is written featuring the Joker, he must stand out as his own character, without this need to read up on past materials. If Kefka were some long-ongoing character in a brand name’s fiction, and Square just acquired the license to use him in FF6, would your mind change? Because that’s what you’re telling me here.
All that means is that Terra is a dynamic character and Kefka is static. And nothing more.
I’m starting to feel like I’m talking to a wall here.
First of all, one-dimensional is not the same as static. At all. I think you’re treating the two terms as synonyms. Static characters can, and have had, many layers of depth.
Secondly, you are setting up a straw man here. Kefka kills, has no remorse, and eventually gains lots of power, but that’s not where his character ends. I’m not going to type out AGAIN his clearly-defined ideology. He always acts within this ideology in EACH AND EVERY scene he’s in. You can ignore this all you want, you can say, “yeah, well, I don’t consider that depth,” and you’d be wrong every time. Every action Kefka takes can be traced back to a well-defined, multi-layered character. The very storyline in FF6 proves this. If he was truly just an ill-thought-out, evil-for-the-sake-of-being-evil villain, there would be no rhyme or reason to his actions, no encompassing character definition to attach it to.
Genocide is not a sign of insanity, or even mental illness. (I’m speaking objectively here; don’t think I’m justifying the actions of RL murderers.) Would you say every leader of every conqueror nation in the history of man was insane for wanting to expand and rule? Here’s another DC comics fictional example: Lex Luthor. He’s a born dictator, a ruler of men. Is he insane? Of course not. He has well defined goals and can justify why he follows those goals. Frieza was never insane until he encountered this inconceivable upstart who actually defeated him. His flaws as a storyline character are not that he was “villainous” (if so, even Kuja’s guilty of that) but rather that his role as galactic conqueror took a backseat to becoming an obstacle for Goku (hmm, like Kuja, fancy that).
Cell’s character would have been a million times better if he was more like Amazo from the Justice League animated series, because really, anybody who can absorb powers and tactics the way Cell can and HAD should have been a match for anybody, including SSJ2 Gohan. How refreshing it would have been if he was truly physically unbeatable, and had to be defeated in argument/debate about the purpose of his great power. But I digress. His motivations are not consistent, which is what pulls him away from Kefka-level frightening, defined villainy to cartoonish supervillainy. He wants to be better than the Z fighters… why? He then says he wants to destroy the Earth, and eventually the universe… why? Because he has power? His character is never well defined. The comparison to Kefka is bunk.
You are wrong, and you haven’t backed up this “simple evil” notion with anything that is of merit or that hasn’t been refuted. Your reasoning is hanging on this “Kefka is simply an evil dude, Kuja’s not, so I win” rhetoric that simple analysis rips through with ease.
Kefka has human qualities too: narcisim, arrogance, self-confidence, irrationality, possessive. He has well defined traits: he desires to dominate, he desires power, and he eventually desires to prove existence a futile endeavor. And, once again, in no scene in FF6, or even Dissidia (so far), has Kefka acted against his character. Hell, look at my avatar: Kefka is looking past his opposition. He’s looking up to the heavens, which is where his ambition in Dissidia will probably lead him.
Good villains are all well-defined and all act within the limits of their character. Yes, even someone as unhinged as the Joker has a method to his madness. The best stories with these long-ongoing comic book villains are the ones where these villains act true to their characters.
Seriously dubious? No, THIS is seriously dubious: “Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants.” THIS is seriously dubious: for any villain to come out and say, “I’m evil and I know it.” That’s LUDICROUS, and I think you know that. Because if any villain knew he was evil, that implies an understanding of accepted societal norms of good and evil, which is exactly what most villains do NOT conform to. For your argument to hold any water, good and evil cannot be relative (which they are) AND all people/characters must have an ingrained understanding of what good and evil is (which they don’t).
Neither character is easier to create, but one character was easier to turn into a glorified hurdle.
Having a background is irrelevant. It isn’t needed over well-defined characteristics. Once again, Joker was still an incredible character before his origins were ever known, and Terra was a good character before she got her memory back.
When I see a vastly superior opponent lose to an inferior opponent, there had better be a good reason. Batman/Lex Luthor/anybody can beat Superman with a hunk of Kryptonite. Most superpowered DC villains are AFRAID of the Joker, because if he feels like it he’ll dump them in acid. Goku and Thanos can both beat opponents much more powerful than they are just because both are extremely capable and experienced combatants. Kuja blew up a planet and, when defeated, suddenly went Trance and because Galactus again, killing the party so they, who couldn’t even beat Kuja, could beat the supposedly more powerful Necron? FF9’s endgame plot was a clusterfuck.[/details]
This recent spat is precisely why I didn’t want to go down this route. I’ve done it too many times already on other forums.
Sorry specs, but Kefka’s “philosophy”, such as it is, is that he’s CRAZY and EVIL. Oh, and I guess POWER HUNGRY. That’s it. He’s a cartoon villain. When you said:
“If he was truly just an ill-thought-out, evil-for-the-sake-of-being-evil villain, there would be no rhyme or reason to his actions, no encompassing character definition to attach it to.”
That’s about right. Trying to find character depth in Kefka is even more futile than trying to find character depth in the relationship between Starscream and Megatron in G1 Transformers. You have to take enormous stretches to try and find meaning in what is essentially a show written for children, where they couldn’t kill off characters willy-nilly. Likewise, there is nothing to Kefka that suggests that he’s anything other than plot convenience. Outside of CRAZY/EVIL/POWERHUNGRY, there is nothing to him (well, there is, but it’s delegated to a single throwaway optional line of dialogue). His “I hate everything/want to destroy everything” schtick they threw in at the end was not only tacked on, it wan’t even original - they just recycled that from Neo EX-Death, another shitty villain.
Frankly, I think the only reason Kefka gets defended so much is because he has some hilarious lines and laugh. He may be one dimensional, but at least he’s amusing, unlike, say, Zemus or Ex-Death. As I said, Kuja is Kefka done right.
However, I will agree that Frieza is NOT insane. I don’t know where that came from. He’s also a cartoon villain, but more standard EVIL/POWERHUNGRY. However, I could have sworn that part of his reason for being was wanting to either make his dad proud and/or surpass him, I forget, but I could be completely off there. Meh, not important.
re: Dissidia
That Brave system has always sounded gimmicky to me. I hope it works out well. But the use of summons sounds cool (and what I was expecting). Hopefully more than a handful of those summons turn out to be good; and if not, they better have a ratio system in place.
honestly i like brave, but i really hate how if you ever get broken the brave bonus is FUCKING HUGE… honestly whenever someone hits an EX attack it seems like a pretty much guaranteed break and then the last hit does almost all of your HP.
Also, Summons seem like a super bad idea; limited little power up moves have never been good IMO, just look at Bleach DS. Especially with 50 Summon choices, they’re will prolly be more than a few that are pretty much too good.
@Ultima: You haven’t given me backing reasons. I’ve given plenty to support my position. Also, we should probably use the spoiler tags for longish posts on the topic, since it isn’t what everyone came here for.
@Leebee Link: Summons sound like ISMs. My only concern, like yours, is if one or two summons are just way better than the rest (e.g., Ifrit is always the best choice). Brave seems to be a VERY important part of the game and anything that affects it will define tiers.
Sounds like the game’s gonna revolve around juggling Brave. It’ll feel just right if the HP hit ends up pretty significant after building up quite a bit of Brave.
We can definitely take it to pm’s, I’ll send you one later :lovin:. I’ll reply to your comments again specs, however on pm’s not here, since where turning it into some vs shit, so I’ll leave it clean and it take it to the pm’s.
Also, wow, it’s interesting that they are implementing so many “systems” into the frey, as for how deep we could potentially get with Dissidia, remains to be seen, however I dont believe it’ll go that far down the road towards the deep end.
Lastly, I’m still waiting to see Terra in full frontal action :looney:
Terra and Kefka full body shots from Famitsu. It would appear Nomura slightly altered Terra’s face, and she does indeed have a sword. Two, actually. :rock:
Nomura changed more than just her face. Her, um, chestal area is somewhat smaller too. Then again it could be just because the pic is full body and I’m seeing an optical illusion.
NINJA EDIT - I think I like the new face a little better than the old. I still want green hair, though. But beggars can’t be choosers.
yeah when cloud omnislashed 1’d him it was all mentally/spiritually but the one thing you label sephiroths power with is his will sephiroth pissed his pants when cloud threw him in the lifestream, i wonder why he did that