Final Fantasy Dissidia thread. Sequel announced!

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241

Canonically, I figure the strongest of the villains ought to be Cloud of Darkness. WHile several others have access to god forms (Kuja, Emperor Paramekia, Ex-Death for sure, possible Kefka and Jecht as well), isn’t CoD already a godlike being, just wrapped in a human shell? I never finished FF3, so I don’t know for sure.

If not her, then either Ultimecia or Sephiroth should get top billing. They’re both enormously powerful even without extra help. Ex-Death should be really strong as well, since he’s a 1000 year old super mage.

Kuja, Paramekia, and Golbez should all be on roughly the same level of power under normal conditions. Kuja and Paramekia should get power boosts in EX mode, but that’s not really considered “normal”.

Kefka, Jecht and Garland should be bottom tier. Kefka, of course, could probably go God mode with the power of the three statues, and Jecht probably has Braska’s Final Aeon form, but again, that’s not their “normal” state. And Garland should be low tier no matter what, as he’s just some schmoe in fancy armour.

So to summarize, FF villain tiers IMO:

Default State:

Top: Cloud of Darkness
High: Sephiroth, Ultimecia, Ex-Death
Mid: Kuja, Golbez, Paramekia
Low: Jecht, Kefka, Galrand

EX Mode inclusion (assuming various characters have God transformations):

Top: Kuja, Kefka, Ex-Death*
High: Paramekia, Cloud of Darkness, Ultimecia, Jecht
Mid: Sephiroth*, Golbez
Low: Garland

*I’m assuming that Ex-Death can take on some of Neo Ex-Death’s power. Likewise, I’m assuming that Sephiroth doesn’t become Seraph Sephiroth or does any kind of transformming. Obviously, this is all speculation until we get more info.

242

Your Tier list isn’t too bad, some I disagree on, however again, we’ll have to really break shit down, since I haven’t played the early FF games since, like…the early 90’s, so my memory with them is umm hazy, which is why I wouldn’t be able to tier effectively the older FF antagonist due to my now lack of knowledge of them :shake:.

Ultimecia however should be Top-Tier, simply because of Time Manipulation, and I believe she has the ability to manipulate reality around her as well, which would make her broken in regards to almost any other FF antagonist.

In their current state form, then yes, Sephiroth is indeed one of the most powerful without any “God” ability thrown to him. The guy has super natural strength, manipulated the weather, utilizes telekinesis, telepathy, teleportation (as seen in FFVII), can fly, levitate, and can cut debris/steel much bigger then his weapon itself, plus his mastery with the Masamune, I don’t think I’m forgetting anything am I?

Even Pre-FFVII Sephiroth is already very beastly as witnessed by his feats in his battle against Genesis and Angeal. Ultimecia should be ToppTier on both regards, and Sephiroth should be High Tier in the Normal State, and Middle Tier sounds about right for him in the “God” form mode…since Sephiroth has never obtained a God Form Mode.

243

Without any godhax (like Safer Seph form), Sephiroth is pretty damn powerful but still jobbed to one Omnislash from Cloud.

Even Safer Sephiroth would get completely DESTROYED by Chaos Vincent (Dirge of Cerberus version where they made him the strongest thing IN FFVII) though.

244

I disagree on this, considering Square themselves have clearly stated within their own official interview that Sephiroth is the single most powerful being within the Final Fantasy VII Universe (Even more powerful then Chaos Vincent), it’s just that Sephiroth has never exerted his full strength within the world of VII.

245

So in FF7 he let Cloud win ?

246

Augh…Seph was fucking owning cloud through out that entire battle in advent children but then he got into the ole bad guy ‘lemme talk shit to you instead of just killing you right where you are’ and OOPS…I just got hit by Toei Punch in the form of Omnislash 2.0 .

Seph: stabs cloud after chasing him around all over the damn place, chuckin him through buildings, and throwing big ass chunks of debri from the buildings…HA HA…I WIN! You must now listen to me sing the ‘I win’ song!

Cloud:…fuck that! Omnislash 2.0

Seph: What!? Omnislash 2.0!? MY ONLY WEAKNESS!!!

I don’t doubt that Seph is probably at the most at least even with Chaos Vincent…Vincent doesn’t have Omnislash in any of his forms so he’ll be ok.

247

The Griever costume looks awesome.

248

Using a Flash-hack type program, someone was able to look into the official Dissidia website character file, and found open spots for FF11 and FF12. No character data was included though, just that there were spots reserved for them…

249

How can you doubt or disagree on Square’s own statements of Sephiroth being more powerful? Official statements override anything about theorizing on who’s more powerful when they already have said that Sephiroth is #1, this means that his powers/abilities is above that of Chaos Vincent, the Weapons, Cloud, or any other being within the FFVII Universe. I even remember a line saying “There is nothing stronger, nothing above him.”

Fact is, we have seen Chaos Vincent at his absolute peak, however we have yet to see Sephiroth’s at his absolute peak, and with him being #1, his abilities would exceed that of Chaos Vincent.

My opinion as to why Sephiroth loses to someone like Cloud is mainly because Sephiroth is the antagonist, and with it, he will inherently lose to Cloud since he is the protagonist. Regardless of how much more powerful Sephiroth may be over Cloud, which is clearly visible, and in AC, I feel that Sephiroth’s intentions where never directly to kill Cloud, or end his life.

Because he had 20934802934823 opportunities, I believe that Sephiroth rather enjoys toying with Cloud’s emotions and breaking him down mentally instead of outright destroying him. Not once through out the battle, did you see Sephiroth look tired, out matched or losing, the only time he was caught off guard was during OmniSlash.

However, I think we should all set this aside, as we’ve sorta derailed this topic into a “Who’s more powerful” junkie fest.

So back on track to Dissidia, I’m just wondering when we’ll finally get some trailers of Terra at work in Dissidia, since this will be the first time that we’ll get to see her in a up to date game with her abilities. I’m really looking forward to this, and lol, PsychoSquall, can you post the link that involves this so called “hack in”? Would be a nice read.

250

Would you say The Joker is a one dimensional antagonist? I’d argue that the Joker doesn’t think he’s evil, or even crazy. The Joker thinks himself superior, that he’s realized a truth that the masses haven’t: that existence is inherently chaotic. Kefka is very similar: Kefka thinks himself superior, and his realization is that life is meaningless, better off crushed under his heel than allowed to continue. Kefka is not the Joker: Kefka hates humanity, Joker really doesn’t. But they’re both similar. Certainly, both characters are static, but hardly simple one dimensional characters.

An 8 year old could create a villain who is scheming and desires destruction, but it would take one thoughtful 8 year old to create a villain as wickedly evil as Kefka who has a basis for doing what he does. And yes, that basis IS irrational, close-minded, and vengeful; Kefka’s human, albeit one gone horribly wrong. His hatred and insanity is deep rooted and consistent, and becomes all the more frightening as the game proceeds and his “power level” increases.

Kuja is certainly not one dimensional either; he has a very well established inferiority complex and motives for his actions. My big grief with Kuja is how unreasonably powerful he became, and how my party is still somehow on the level with a dude who can apparently blow up planets and cause all that havoc. Eventually that’s all Kuja became; just a powerful dude with a grudge, with little of that personality on display in favor of a glowy Trance form. If Kuja was truly compelling enough as a villain he didn’t need to become Galactus/Captain Aizen/Frieza/etc.

251

Grievermecia? Hell to the yeah!

I wonder how summons will figure into the gameplay? Will there be items that randomly drop in for it or what?

I’m hoping there’s some FFXI and FFXII content. That there are placeholders for it gives me a little hope.

252

Well how summons actually work is that you activate them with R+Triangle, you see some Amano art of them and then your char gets a buff.

253

Nope. After DoC all bets were off, Vincent officially became the strongest character in FFVII (by Nomura’s own words IIRC). Before DoC though, yeah it was Sephiroth. Although, it’s actually Aerith who can control the Lifestream at will and essentially became a guardian spirit, but she’s not technically alive so it doesn’t count.

Chaos Vincent killed the strongest WEAPON on the planet…by himself. Sephiroth would get curbstomped.

254

But how does one get them?

255

FF11: boo. Terrible game, one of the worst ever made (Superman 64 was better than that, and I’m not even exaggerating). And normally I wouldn’t knock having characters from a bad game in a crossover, but FF11 is so goddamn awful that I don’t want to be reminded that it’s a numbered entry in the series. I’d much rather have Ramza and Delita than Hume Male and 17 hour long boss. Speaking of which:

FF Tactics: fuck the FF11 slot and let’s see Nomura draw us some Ramza and Delita. Stick their War of the Lions English VAs there and you’ve got win city. So much potential here; it could be Ramza and Delita around the time of their reunion when they’re unsure of the other’s loyalty, or it could even be post-game where Ramza ends up in Dissidia-verse after the events of the game, vs. a just-did-the-bad-thing-he-did-in-the-ending Delita.

FF12: Vayne is the obvious villain choice, but who’d be the hero? Yes, Vaan was the main character, but he was just a tag along. Ashe would give the good guys another female character.

IMA GONNA NINJA EDIT - About this whole Nomura confirming who’s most powerful thing: I’d like to think that analysis of combat abilities is far more compelling evidence than just “what the creator says.” Joe Quesada can tell me that unbuffed Spider-Man could beat Thanos and that’d be arguable, despite the fact that the dude is Marvel’s main man editor. For a more real life example of ridiculousness confirmed in canon but not in common sense, see Squirrel Girl. :rofl: Squirrel girl would beat Kuja, Sephiroth, SSJ4 Vincent, and God of Magic Kefka “legit.”

256

Kuja is Kefka done right. Kuja’s only drawback is that he’s got a cartoon villain-like love for hearing himself talk.

Kefka, though, I put on the same level of G1 Starscream and Skeletor and other cartoon villains - 1 dimensional villains who are arbitrarily “evil” (and in the case of Kefka, “crazy”) for the sake of being so. Sorry specs.

257

Didn’t see this posted yet:

Jecht’s EX form.

258

Still waiting on Tidus’ alternate outfit.

259

Show me proof of Square’s actual statements?

Chaos Vincent needed the entire plot to help him against the Final Weapon (He didn’t do it by himself mind you), and yes, you’ll need to show me some actual proof of Nomura or more importantly official statements from Square stating that Chaos Vincent is above Sephiroth.

I have not heard them officially stating Chaos Vincent being above Sephiroth (zero recent interviews even during DoC statements, none of them saying C. Vincent>Sephiroth), when Square has already established on more than one occasion that there is nothing above Sephiroth.

Not to mention that when AC came out, DoC was on the run at the same current time as well, so for Square to go out and say Sephiroth is #1, would mean that even he is above and beyond Chaos Vincent, this isn’t like Chaos Vincent wasn’t “known” to Square during the time of AC, and they also made a very clear statement saying that they didn’t want to make anyone else more powerful then Sephiroth within the FFVII universe, so this holds true that Sephiroth is the most powerful being.

Lastly, Aeris was can manipulate the lifestream, however Sephiroth was also manipulating the lifestream of the planet as well, during AC, with all of the people who died utilizing it, he even held back Holy during VII within just his mental state, you can even regard him being more powerful then the lifestream itself due to the fact that he has manipulated it, and not only that, but naturally you would be consumed by the lifestream, yet Sephiroth can come back time and time again.

260

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=318891&page=6

Extract the character flashpage name chara.swf off the website, and use a Flash Decompiler to analyze the files of that Flash page.

And you can find the code of the Wheel animation of the character page, within that code, some frames labelled .

It’s all merely speculation. I too would hate to see FF11 characters thrown into the mix. However, ff12 and even ff13 would be neat if they were included. The group poster only shows ff1-10 characters, and they’ve stated that only 1-10 characters were in it. But like many popular fighting games, having secret characters included where it increases the advertised roster count is not that far-fetched. Dissidia is a perfect title to thrown in some extra surprises for the fans.

Since Terra is the only female protagonist in Dissidia, it would be cool if Ashe or the xiii Lightning chick were there, since many people don’t like fighting games to be sausage-fests. Also, FF12 has been out for a while now. The Dissidia project was conceptualized 7 years ago, and back then was when they planned to have the 10 ff titles to be represented. But that was 7 years ago.

Having Final Fantasy 13 characters as secret characters could also act for promotional purposes for the upcoming FFXIII release. Of course, 13 is a ways away, so I think the chances of it making it in Dissidia is zilch.