Fighting game mechanics discussion

Not sure if parries would be considered a comeback mechanic. But I like how they add a extra dimension to the game. If you are nice with it, you have a fighting chance and make make something happen with a good read and parry.

Like the famous EVO moment 37. The parry mechanic made that possible, and one can’t really get mad or feel cheated getting beat like that, because parrying is straight up skill. So a comeback mechanic that rewards skillful play rather than bailing you out of an ass kicking I.E LV3 X-Factor is ok IMO.

They’re not. A comeback mechanic is something that makes you want to be closer to your fail state, holding all else equal.

Historically most parries do actually have whiff animation

Samurai showdown 3
power instinct legends
last blade
Blitzkampf - post sf3
yaga rurururu whatever it’s called - post sf3

To name but a few, from my poor memory it’s only sf3 and samurai showdown 2 where there is no whiff animation

Yatagarasu parries have no whiff animation as well.

No, that’s only true of poorly-designed comeback mechanics like X-Factor and Ultras. The popularity of the modern Capcom fighters has made people equate “comeback mechanics” with poorly-designed systems like those.

All a comeback mechanic is is something that supplements you when you’re at a disadvantage, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be the case that you want to intentionally put yourself at a disadvantage just to use it. KOF giving you more maximum meter when you lose teammates; ArcSys’s Burst meter; the fact that in most games you earn a small amount of super meter when you get hit; all of these are comeback mechanics. But they don’t completely dominate the game.

my mistake, still i can scrub that one and put chaos code in its place

Burst and KOF meter mechanics prevent comebacks just as much as they facilitate them, perhaps even more than they facilitate them.

No, that’s the definition of a comeback mechanic. If for any reason I might prefer to be at a lower health value at any point in the match due to this mechanic, it’s a comeback mechanic. You don’t need to dominate a game to be a comeback mechanic. In KoF I might prefer to have been my last character with 1 bar of meter after a confirm instead of my second to last character with no bars for instance.

This isn’t a bad thing! Having a power up to give you a shot at winning can be fun if handled correctly! But that’s how they’re actually defined

If memory serves correctly, the very first conditional attacks (read supers) were called desperation moves and could only be performed in low health.

How do you guys feel about developers altering/changing inputs going from game to game?
Whether it’s for specials, command normals, or even supers

Do you think it’s a good idea to experiment with these between different entries in the same franchise? Or is it a bad idea and ultimately hurts character familiarity to a certain degree which can often make or break the ease of getting used to a completely new game?

My own personal opinion is i dont like it one bit., it’s not about familiarity more bout identity, i mean you’ll get used to it look at robert garcia post 98

for example i hate real bout 2 i hate how i made pretty much all super motions pretty much the same IE f hcf or 360, it just makes certain moves not as special for me at least, so like when you see somebody land break spiral with duck in rb2 it feels whatever, when i see somebody land it in ff special or real bout rbs it just feels much better because i know how much more thought goes into the set up how you have to try and disguise your inputs.
Same with andy in kof 95, tell me it feels the same landing his super in 96 and beyond than it did in 95, it was mad mad hype landing that shit

When you standardize motions it just dont feel the same, to me, i know i’m in the minority but whatever, people moan far too much about motions being too hard, go play kaiser knuckle and then moan about raging storm being too hard

Duck’s super being a 360 in RB2 is a vast improvement, it gives him soo much more flexibility in setups. It also suits his karas very well. Same for Geese.

FFS style super motions were dumb, difficult for the sake of difficulty.

My 2 cents re: “zoning”

Him: “Guilty Gear has no real zoners, everyone is rushdown.”

Me: "But zoning means controlling big/important parts of the screen in order to turn a neutral situation into a favorable situation. And most characters in GG do not want to try to get in without creating an advantageous situation first, which many do by controlling the screen. If you get a temporary advantage, and use it to safely get close and start offense until it ends and then go back to zoning, the part of pressing the advantage did not make your character archtype into a ‘not-zoner’. SF2 Ryu can play as a great zoner with fireballs and anti-airs and still apply mixups and pressure if he happens to get a good opportunity and this does not make his strong, effective zoning ‘not real’. "

Him: “No, REAL zoners should not want get close and do something else no matter which situation presents itself, they should want to zone 100% of the time. So stuff like MorriDoom is one of the only REAL zoning examples in the genre.”

Me: “If a zoning option during neutral is so strong that it’s also better than setting up oki (which should be inherently advantageous, a reward you earned) or getting a 1 free offense attempt (which should also be inherently advantageous, a reward you earned) then this only means that specific zoning option is extremely strong, and not that other zoning options are “not zoning” but only overall weaker. And the only way to combat such a strong zoning option is with an equally bullshit alternative, like one hit leading to a 100% combo via spending XF early to kill Morrigan and ending that strategy. And then even with that option, many characters in the game cannot even get that single hit and usually auto-lose to MorriDoom. The oppressiveness of that specific zoning scenario (against specific characters) only means there’s less decision making involved for both players because there are less valid options to consider. It only means the weaker zoning on other games is more nuanced and interesting, rather than ‘not real’…”

And here come the “MorriDoom is trapping, not zoning” comments.

That said,

Spoiler

MorriDoom is trapping.

In any case, part of the “zoning” issue comes from the fact that zoning in most Capcom games more often than net gets associated with keepaway, and turtling. So when people say that there’s no “zoning” in GG or other anime games, they usually mean that there’s no “keepaway”.

Which is equally stupid at so many levels, since there is keepaway. Believing otjerwise just proves an absolute lack of understanding of the games in question.

But there are more standout examples in Capcom games. Stuff like O. Sagat, or MvC2 Storm hiding in the upper corner of the screen, or Cable.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Tell me, is this something that you think, or something that you parrot because some x or y top player said?
Real question.

itt: semantics

Personal opinion. Because when was the last time you actually saw that kind of “get the fuck out and never come in” kind of keepaway as a dominant playstyle in any recent ASW game?

Tell me, does Xrd have an equivalent to MvC2 'Thrax with Storm hugging the top of the screen mashing HP while CapCom drops corridors on screen? Or O. Sagat and Ryu saying fuck you to Honda players in ST?

And let’s not forget mechanics like Negative Penalty which actively punishes keepaway.

I just saw this thread.

I wonder how many times I’m going to see d3v’s posts if I ctrl+F “skullgirls” or “SG”?