I strongly dislike many things about KOFXIV which is a shame because I was really hype for the game. Firstly it feels as if the combo timing is unnecessarily weird. In most games landing a jump-in puts you at enough of a frame advantage that you get a free combo. In KOF I feel like jump-in combos are impossible.
Secondly I dislike the footsie game. The walk speed in this game is so low and normals are so fast that wiff punishing feels impossible. I understand that the game isn’t SF; but in SF and Tekken wiff punishing felt natural and rewarding. Like is this even a think in KOF? Causing your opponent to take damage is daunting. Even more daunting are hit confirms since the timing for these combos is too fast. I really don’t understand how people say this game is better than SFV. The mobility reminds me kinda of smash. Despite walking slow the characters fly across the screen half a dozen ways making the concept of spacing wonky.
As far as other mechanics I like the new meter system. Its much easier than KOFXIII’s with regard to execution. I got a few combos down in 13 but never any of the touch of deaths. Unfortunately it feels like the only way to do damage so if I ever get a hit I max mode cancel and of course the next hit is mistimed (why wouldn’t it be? how was I supposed to know I’d get a hit?) So I throw away a bar most of the time.
I disagree with almost everything you wrote there.
First off: getting combos off a jump-in isn’t harder than most games I’ve played, with the very notable exception of SF4 and later Capcom games. You need to land the jump-in deep, but that’s how it’s always been like in KOF, and it’s also the case in a lot of other games.
Whiff punishing is possible. I don’t think it’s much harder than most other games. I have a significantly easier time whiff punishing in KOFXIV than in SFV as well. However, the game isn’t really based around whiff punishing. It’s one of the options for your toolbox (and a valuable one, since a whiff punish into MAX mode is huge damage), but you have other ways around normals that should also be utilized.
Hit-confirming in KOF is hard. That’s just how it is. I like it that way, but I know others don’t. This also ties back to the “how was I supposed to know I’d get a hit?”-question; you need to hit-confirm properly, and that takes some work. Certain situations are easier than other, mind.
I think space control is a lot easier in XIV than in SFV, because even though mobility is better, so are the normals and the other space control tools (especially fireballs). It’s a lot easier to play the option denial game in XIV once you actually understand your own spacings and movement options. You don’t win by zoning alone, usually; often you’d take to the offensive once your opponent starts respecting that you have the neutral game on lock, which is a playstyle that suits me well.
Of course, if you just happen to like SFV better, then nobody’s going to stop you from going back and enjoying that. But I definitely prefer XIV.
Footsie game is much better in XIV because it has much better normals. SFV has such stocky and slow normals save for a couple of characters that it has degraded ground game immensely.
As I said in the KOF thread many things feel much more in line with the roots of SF in XIV than in SFV, to the point that sweep into projectile is a thing again. Anyone into oldschool SF knows this is huge and one of the reasons shoto zoning was progressively weakened in Street Fighter.
I can’t understand someone complaining about slow walk speeds in XIV then liking SFV. XIV has slightly slower walkspeeds compared to 2D KOF, but it feels like Sonic when compared to SFV. Walkspeeds in V are so infuriatingly slow across the board that any real SF footsie game is thrown out of the window.
IV already felt sluggish, but V takes that to the extreme and some characters like Bison are simply ridiculous. Couple that with the stocky normals and you have something extremely frustrating.
Finally XIV also has excellent projectiles that are good for zoning, much better than the sorry things we got in V.
In short, XIV feels much more Street Fighter than the latest Street Fighters do. It’s like they took KOF basics and infused them with strong Street Fighter fundamentals. To me it feels as the path of evolution Street Fighter should have taken: to keep the fundamentals and add fun stuff that doesn’t destroy them on top.
Thank you and Naeras for your honest and non-judgmental replies. I have often wondered why people preferred KOFXIV to SFV. I’m an '09er and SF4 was the first fighter I took seriously, prior to that I logged a lot of hours into DOA3 and SC2 but never got deep into them. So I’m used to the slower games (and the unreal engine). Maybe KOFXIV is what purists of the series have been waiting for. And don’t get me wrong I do enjoy KOFXIV, but something about it has felt off in a way that is different from every fighter I’ve played. Honestly it feels much less accessible. Playing SFV I felt like once I got over trying the link c.lp >c.mp and my other SFIV habits I was competent. In KOF its like I’m just losing to myself. Also why no record/playback function? I can’t train without that.
Am I the only one who hates having a button devoted entirely to a parry? I know I am not the only one who prefer’s holding back to block rather than using a block button but how about when you parry in fighting games? Like have an otherwise 3 or 4 button game be 4 or 5 because of a parry button. Maybe not the best way of saying it but yeah. I prefer 3S/MOTW’s direct based parry but I can also get on board parry and other methods of defense based around a button so long as it uses already existing buttons and does not outright add a new one. Maybe I am thinking too much on something as simple as a button layout I will admit, but a simple and focused button layout means a lot to me and devoted parry and indeed a button for straight up blocking in general just messes with my flow.
Or maybe what I really hate is adding a button specifically for one and only one function when that could have been done with the other buttons.
Melty, Akatsuki, and Yatagarasu off the top of my head. They’re 3-4 button games that then add 1-2 parry buttons. You could argue that Guilty has a button parry as well with Slashback/Blitz Shield I suppose.
I’m fine with a button parry. I don’t like a block button because of how it interferes with movement and general controls, but a parry button is pretty different, especially in a no-whiff animation for parries game.
Vanguard Princess, Last Blade also have dedicated parry buttons (with whiff animations; the opponent is temporarily unable to block, in LB’s case), Chaos Code also has a parry button combination (also with whiff animation, and also makes the opponent become temporarily unable to block), NPB has a shield mechanic (it uses one button that’s also used for universal overhead hops, ground/air rolls, and used in combination with other buttons to summon assists) that resets both players to neutral but gives frame advantage to the defender.
don’t know about 3d games, but DoA has a hold button, Pokkén has a counter mechanic (don’t remember if it uses a button or a combination)
Akatsuki uses its parry system with pre existing buttons which I really like. Yatagarasu DOES NOT adding two buttons just for that which I really do not like. The main game before my mind went blank the other night and passed out is Battle Fantasia. Yatagarasu is far worse with two and Akatsuki is the ideal to me since it does not add any extra buttons.
Their several reason that can be consider why they did that for yata.
Here are the one that comes to my mind.
Key bind would have been difficult to implement as yata is four button fighter with already key bind function.
LP+HP/LK +HK= Ex’s
LP+LK=Throw
HP+HK= Unblockable
Any other key binds like LK+HP/LP+HK would be convoluted and problematic for certain controller peripherals (pad players) Yata overall lenient and simple control was designed to keep the game simple so players can focus more on fighting. This is why they opted to have BL displayed instead of whiff animation. its mind game tool. Yata using button works ergonomically with the system and mechanics, changing it would be counterintuitive to its desighn.
My favorite is Valentine from Skullgirls. Adding artificial input delay (something something the punchline is 8 frames) or hitstun and blockstun with specific specials/supers is really cool. I guess it doesn’t technically interfere with the interface, but it does mess with “behind the scenes” stuff, so to speak. More accurately, Squigly has that special that forces the screen to focus and zoom in on her to create “artificial” walls due to the locked screen position, which is both thematic for an opera singer (focus on me) and is a cool ability since you rarely get moves that fuck around with the camera like that. Putting that move as an assist with Big Band can be fun as hell when up against someone who likes to play keepaway.
In general, I think Skullgirls doesn’t get enough love for the weird, clever shit it did with fighting game systems. KI also does a lot of cool shit, but I don’t feel like all of those abilities were as thought out and clever as much as they were mainly interesting ways for characters to get resources outside of the Shadow Meter. Chunks, skulls, reactor pips, dragons, vengeance, carbine shots, dagger pips, whatever the fuck Eyedol’s meters were called, they’re all unique and all are interesting, but in the end they’re basically just additional resources to be managed. I feel like Skullgirls did some really weird shit that nobody else thought of.
Soul Calibur has Guard Impact which is similar to a parry. V also introduced Just Guard that acted even more like parries. However, these are all done using the Guard button.
Going back to DOA though, the “hold” button, also called the “free” button, is actually just the block button (you can also block by holding back though). To activate a counter hold, you need to press a specific direction and the “hold” button. The series has one of the more complex “parry-like” system of any 3D game since holds not only have high, mid, and low variants, but in the most recent games (4, 5), you have separate holds for mid kicks and mid punches - 7H for high attacks, 1H for low attacks, 4H for mid kicks, and 6H for mid punches.
On a related note, the “hold” button is also used for something called “free cancelling” where you hit H in the middle of a string to start a new one.
The game is well designed overall. I am surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Which is why I wish I had more people toplay it with. That parry thing is just a personal issue I have even if you give a good reason.
Welcome to the delima of every other fighter that disregard if they dont have triple A name backing. This is the main problem of many fighting game community. But then most of us prefer things this way, because onlike the more popular prevalent games that are very e-sport driven. We just care about playing games we love.
I still hate the use of the word poverty in the FGC but then I hate a lot of things about this community and give it all the love I possibly can regardless. Still what I live for more is just the love of the game and its worth it to see people that care for the games they care for. Not just with fighting games but videos games in general I have fallen out with bigger stuff in favour of indie and older stuff. Not that I hate AAA, I would not be working hard to get my PC a little more up to date if I did. I just feel like you said that the love of the game is one means the most of me since love for fighting games in general. This is a mechanics discussion though so I do not think I should say much more than that.
While poverty certainly has negative connotation, its taken in stride from some members of the community. I can’t speak of its origin but mostly its term used for player base that’ll play anything. I certainly prefer poverty than “Kusoge” which has even worst effect imo.
I’m not against triple A titles either but i just like to play and explore every fighter I can. Some I pick up to competitively (Examu/French bread/ SNK) and other I learn to appreciate its design but not invested enough to compete in (ASW/Namco/Capcom).
I think your fine to express what ever you liked, as long its pertaining to the topic.
I ended up in a discussion yesterday about comeback mechanics. I’d be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on them, and specifically if there are any kinds of implementations of comeback mechanics people prefer.
The thing with comeback mechanics is that after the poor implementations made by capcom on their recent games many people consider them a bad thing to have.
When done right they are like any other tool that can add a new layer of depth to the game.
That parry thing is just a personal issue I have even if you give a good reason.