I agree bringing Gouken back really wasn’t worth it. Capcom used it as a cheap gimmick and on top of that no one even plays him. Retcons are almost always bad.
Well to be fair, KOF13 has a lot of cut scenes/unique dialog and I find myself skipping through them a lot to get to the fight already. Think about if you really would be willing to sit through multiple cut scenes because I know I don’t (most of the time.) I would rather have supplemental stuff like a (good) show or movie that would be canonical.
One cliche about fighting games is that they tend to have really good music in them. Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Tekken , and Skullgirls all have really good songs in them, which is kinda odd considering music is usually an element you find in more story driven games.
Too bad I never have the game sounds on when I play. ( SG might change this though…)
They could have brought Gouken in as a playable character, but just made it obvious that he was meant to be dead. Fatal Fury series did this by having Geese in games he was supposed to be dead in by giving him a halo on the character select screen.
As for KOF, I’ve actually tried to get as many combinations of characters to fight each other because I enjoy the dialogue so much. For folks who want that stuff, it’s there - for folks who don’t, they can just hit start and skip it. Win-win, basically.
Nothing wrong with cut-scenes so long as they are easily skippable, in my opinion. That way, nobody loses.
I read most of the interactions when I first got it and it was really cool then so I"ll have to agree with you it’s pretty win-win. The past two weeks I’ve been making myself run through arcade mode on very hard at least once a day to practice since the online is so bad. Europe got the patch yesterday though so that’s good news.
More to the point, arcades aren’t the best place for games that emphasize story. No decent operator will buy a game that has long cut scenes wherein the player cannot lose.
Only reason fighting games had endings was to act as some sort of incentive to beating the game. By the mid-90’s companies had wised up. Tekken and VF pretty much had no story for their arcade releases (Tekken saved that ish for the home ports).
Another example of a cliche not being a bad thing are the characters being able to fight until they are completely defeated - Getting punched, kicked and thrown around repetitively will not hinder the characters ability to fight back.
Some other cliches might include:
Story line inconsistencies: This has been spoken about by previous members of this thread. Why couldn’t Ryu defeat Sagat in a fair fight? It was only a simple Shoryuken, not some Dues ex Machina… or cheap shot plot device. In fact… thanks to Capcom’s weirdness and retcons, Ryu technically lost his first tournament right up until the Satsui no Hadou BS was introduced in SFA2… Oh hey, Gouken! So you… ARE alive, aren’t you? According to d3v, the arcade is hardly a place for emphasizing on story line…
Forgotten characters: Some companies in charge of creating fighting games have a odd tendency of forgetting a certain group of characters, especially if they are fan favorites. Like Adel (others include Oswald, Geese Howard, or Yamazaki…) from KOF XIII (this might not be true yet), or Karin from Street Fighter (Then there is Elena, Alex, R. Mika…). Do I need to mention a certain blue bomber for MVC3? My avatar summarizes my thoughts quite well. And no, I don’t care about Bad Box Art Megaman.
The super meters: This is another example of a cliche not really being a bad thing. Get a load of super meters and DM meters and such! The characters are able to use super moves for the sake of extra damage!
Terry Bogard: Are you OKAY…?! BUSTA WOOOOOLF!!
Suspiciously similar super moves/variations: Of course, some super moves are practically upgraded versions of the characters original move.
Characters calling out the names of their moves for no particular reason: You will see this ever so often.
Tournament fights taking place in a rather odd background: This is a supposed to be fighting tournament correct? So is their any reason why Jin is fighting Raven in a casino of all places?
I actually want to know why people want megaman in mcv3 so bad. I mean hes a GREAT character don’t get me wrong but why when zero is in the game. Same for people who want ken in mvc3 also
A Casino would be totally anti cliche! You certainly see far fewer Casino’s than the Karate Dojos, Chinese Villages, Random Alley/Dirt Path, Generic Field, etc. stages
For the same reason Capcom decided to put Akuma in the game. Most people just figured it would be okay if X made the cut… Not really the case, but what’s done is done now. Frankly, I don’t really care much for the MVC3 series… it kinda seems like Mugen made into a official video game by Capcom. MVC2 on the other hand…
The thing I want to see as cliche is father-son/master-student legacies. You know generation change thing. Like in SFIII, MOTW or SCV. Too bad people will always complain how their favorite characters didn’t make the cut. But I honestly think that this change can turn out great if done properly. It’ll be awesome too see old bearded Ryu who keep fighting with half power and giving advices for younger fighters =]
True. The staff who monitors the tournament probably keeps track of where background takes place anyway as well as record the characters fighting each other. KOF 96 and SFII are good examples.
Wait, we’re talking story modes and no one mentioned PSX Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure?
Sure, the minigames and QTE was pretty meh to downright annoying but we’re at an age where those things have improved in standards.
Though what I want to be more cliche is dead hour stages that AREN’T alleyways, abandoned buildings, or under bridges.
Its like that died with Southtown not being the main stage of KOF in the mainstream. Melty and Fate/Unlimited Codes loves it so much, the weirder areas are literally just magical fields in physical form rather than OOOH NOOO, ITS SUDDENLY ALL MIRRORY/WHITE/BLACK/RAINING/A LIGHTNING STORM BECAUSE IT LOOKS COOL.
I’ve come to the conclusion that fighting games in general are just exaggerated wrestling matches.
Every character has at least one signature and finishing move, and they never add more hits/damage to them even when they can. They usually perform their trademark moves regardless of whether it whiffs or not (though some will stop if it doesn’t hit). No matter where or how they get hit or knocked down, they always make sure to fight in a straight line, regardless of the stage. It’s the reason why young girls can make big dude flinch and fighters fall victim to moves they can break free of; because they’re selling it big time. Lots of characters get a push, while others are basically reduced to jobber status and/or disappear, only to come back for special events like Dream Matches and Crossovers. Everyone acts like they’re being watched or filmed, even when there’s no one around to watch the fight. Cameo characters try to sneak in on a camera shot to get some sort of pop. Nobody dies in a fighting game match, except for when it’s part of the story, and even then they don’t really die.
Perhaps the Character Archetypes thread should be linked with this one in some way.
I think a few people here are blurring the term “cliche.” It’s when something becomes overdone to the point of being trite. I don’t think good music can become trite as long as it’s interesting/fresh (a certain style can, however). Nor do we actually want to see things become cliches.
Well… There’s D’Bo.
I know, I know.
I can’t think of any other Native American characters who go beyond the Noble Savage type off hand, though there aren’t many anyway and they were all created in the 90’s for what that counts.
@the7k: Isn’t Gill’s tournament supposed to decide who gets to stay alive in his new world or something similar because they’re the mightiest warrior? Kind of like Jedah, only less evil.
So I guess that’s another cliche: the Misguided Idealist. Though that’s something that reappears in video game stories over and over again in general.
