Fighting against P-groove?

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

First person to tell me to use A-Sakura or to “just RC!” is going to get e-slapped.

Hopefully everybody here knows by now that characters like P-Kyo, Cammy, Blanka, Sagat, Yamazaki, and even the wierd ones like Raiden, Hibiki, Yun, and Haohmaru are DEFINATELY no joke. Here are some things I always keep in mind whenever I fight against P-groove.

-Conventional anti-airs are NOT safe

Against A, C, K, N, S, Ryu’s dp+LP is a safe all purpose anti-air attack that you can always throw out on reaction to any jump-in. Sagat’s dp+HP is also perfect all purpose anti-air for all those grooves other than K as well. P-groove players however, jump in on purpose hoping exactly that you’re going to use your main ground based anti-air move.

You need to mix it up.

Jump up and do an air-to-air move for example. Better to have your air move parried and take a single air-to-air hit, than to have your ground move parried and take a FULL GROUND COMBO.

Take a guess and throw them as soon as they land. Low shorts as soon as they land. Walk behind and low short or throw when they land. Do a ground move and then cancel it into something (Sagat close s.HP (parried), Tiger Uppercut). Any other tricks I don’t know about? I’m thinking maybe do your ground anti-air move, but time it early instead of the usual deep (ie. four hit Tiger Uppercut instead of the regular five hit one).

-Mix up which way they need to parry.

All low attacks must be parried low, while all standing attacks of medium strength or greater must be parried high. Attacks to avoid are any standing light attacks, special attacks, or crouching attacks which can be parried either high or low. Rock’s d.HP may be an awesome meaty attack, but I definately don’t want to use that move against a P-groover. I’m always going to use my low shorts or meaty close s.HK as they get up instead. Unfortunately, Rock’s close s.LK and Sagat’s s.LP can be parried either crouching or standing…

Ken is fantastic against a knocked down P-groover because he can mix up close s.HK and close s.MK (parry high) with d.LK (parry low).

-Go low to fight throw attempts

Whenever you suspect a tick throw is coming, and you want to counter with a combo as well. Try not to use moves which can be parried both high or low. Ken s.LK is normally a great comboable move to avoid tick throws with since it comes out in four frames (enough to clear the six frame “no throw out of block stun” window). A lot of the time however, the P-groover will get an accidental forward parry and still throw you. Had you have done d.MK xx super instead though…

In general, it’s always good to go low whenever you want to try and reverse a tick throw attempt. The only thing you need to watch out for is the P-groovers who bait you into reversing low so they can low parry you. P-Raiden d.LP, low parry, jab, short xx death punches instead of just d.LP, throw for example. Jap player Makoto RAPES people with those dumb low parry setups. The way you counter that is to go for your own throw after blocking your opponent’s tick move.

-Go easy on the cross-ups

P-groove can pretty much clear all your jump in attacks by picking a direction and tapping at the last moment. They either get a parry or block correctly.

-Option select your cancelable moves

Ken can do close s.HK and then input a dp+HP very slowly. If the P-groover is hit or blocks, nothing happens and Ken is allowed to follow up his +4 frame advantage. If the P-groover had parried however, the close s.HK gets canceled into Shoryuken.

It takes practice, but it is very important to be able to bait and punish parries this way. It is even possible to option select buffer super moves. Sagat’s crouching fierce is the best example. Although it can be parried either high or low (bad), you can slowly buffer the super motion so that Tiger Cannon comes out whenever the move gets parried (GOOD!).

===============

Although I highly doubt anybody is going to reply to me, I need some help from a skilled C-Sagat player for fighting against P-groove. Is it just me, or is C-Sagat ridiculously hard to use when fighting against P? He doesn’t have a safe close attack that must be parried high and his big size makes him get raped be P-groovers jumping in over and over. God forbid when Sagat gets cornered…

P-Raiden is killing me really bad in particular. His jump MK beats my Sagat far s.HK and any of my jump back attacks cleanly. Tiger Uppercut is not safe at all to the point I’ve pretty much stopped using that move altogether. I can’t block against Raiden because he makes my guard flash in TWO block strings. Once I get cornered it’s pretty much game right there.

So yeah, to anybody who’s experienced with C-Sagat, I can’t get P-Raiden off me at all. It’s like as soon as the game says “fight” I’m already dead. Help!

2

this shit is so old skool, jus watch 3s, P-groove sucks and if raiden beats your Sagat you suck…jus get better footsies

3

You dont no what the fuck you talking about. A good p groover is hard to beat and a good p raiden vs c sagat can go eather way.

4

Zangief that shit down

5

P-groove is very deadly theoretically, if you know how to use it.

I like to play P-groove but I just wanted to know who are the best battery characters in the game for P-groove?

6

kyo, rolento, sakura, blanka, vega, yama, etc

7

A good p-groove player will try to out-turtle the other player, baiting the opponent to do a move, then parry and attack. Most good p-groove players hardly jump at all, they have more patience than you can imagine. (except p-kyo and cammy, they do attack)

I hate to break it to you guys, but to beat a good p-groove player(without the shoshosho, and other chipping A-groove), you pretty much have to out-turtle and out-patience the p-user. Throwing out predictable moves will get you in trouble. Most p-users are very observant to your footise and distance game. A cr.jab into whiff st.jab into a throw is always good.

Note: avoid hitting low after a tech-throw, if you don’t want to have your cr.hk parried. Also avoid hitting low, after you get hit by any move or block something with frame advantage(for lack of a better word). Those are very predictable to p-users.

All you really can do, is get your execution so good, that once you make a hit, you want to do the most damage on him then turtle. Just like 3rd strike, (command) throws is always good but not too often.

Or you can try to only throw out a poke when you know you should NEVER do so, and Never throw out a poke when you KNOW YOU SHOULD. That’s called unpredictable… HAHAHA… J/K. :tup:

IMO, akuma run away air fireball with teleport is frustrating to p-users. Rolento and Vice(when used well) can be tough because of their multiple hits attacks. of course vice’s rc command throw. Then of course the other run away king(vega) and queen(mai) are good to use against p-users, too.

8

just use dhalsim, parryXXteleport that shit, even in the air if u gotta lmao

9

Other ways to fight p-users:

  1. when you want to use medium or hard attacks… think again… run!!!

  2. when you want to throw out close light attacks… think again… THROW!!!

  3. When they jump in at you, and you want to do Anti-air… Think again… jump back and kick!!! or air throw early if you have it.

  4. When you want to chip them to death(not using shoshosho or chipping A-groove)… think again… whiff jab… throw or just throw!!! or run until time over.

  5. When you think you should combo, do it but pray that you don’t miss…

  6. When you getting parried with your multiple hits attack, and you want to mash your side of the buttons and joystick… think again… just smash the p-user over the head and that’s it for all the parrying. DO NOT ATTEMPT this if you are playing a 6foot2, 250 pounds musclar guy!!!

10

I think the main thing about playing against someone who uses P groove is too find out just how capable they are of parrying and how effectively they use it. For example -

Knock the opponent down, and do cr short with a plan to do a big combo off of it if it hits. If they parry it there’s a chance for them to do a big combo on you too, so it’d be better to do it when they have no super meter. The point is to condition them to it. Next time around, do cr short a little earlier (intentionally whiff) so they’ll try to parry it, then nail them with a heavy attack into super. Just buffer the motion and hit verify it.

This may sound a bit crazy, but two in one stupid stuff. Like with Ken, cr mk xx overhead. A lot of people are used to attacking immediately after they parry. Since he leaves the ground there’s no chance to land a big combo. I remember going up against a Chun li player who I had a huge lead against. She got a knockdown, did cr strong which I parried, then she cancelled into level 2 fireball, rh legs, st strong xx lvl 1 kick super.

For anti airs, know the range they’re jumping in on you with. I like walking udnerneath and hitting them from the other side if they put too much reliance on parrying, but thats very distance important. Why not jump towards them as they descend? At worst you get hit out of the air, otherwise you have a good jump in (maybe even crossup) opportunity.

11

Some basic stuff:

As kcxj mentioned doing a ground move and cancel to an anti-air move is a good tool.

Characters that can cancel aerial specials/supers from jump ins are a useful as well. e.g., Ken j.MP, j.LK, straight up j.LK, j.HK, j.MP all cancel to hurricane kick. Kim, Mai, can cancel into super from some of their jump in attacks.

If your character has air-throws, use them. Same with command grabs.

Moves that are “safe” on parry. What I mean is even when parried they are often in no position to hit back and may whiff their attempt. e.g.,
walk forward w/ Guile then B + MK. The tip of the foot is parried and if they retailate w/ a sweep or something it will whiff. Then you walk in and d.MK.

12

alright, on a serious note…

switching up your anti-air is gonna confuse the crap out of the p-player… using characters that have a 2 hit antiair (or more) is another way to go. Ie eagle’s s.mp 2 hits, u can have 1 whiff if u want, it changes the whole timing. or if you have akuma, c.fpXXdp the fierce dp is going to connect for a 2 hitter. if they parry the c.fp, they eat dp.

a note on the jumping for anti-air … if your p-groove opponent has an air throw, it’s just as dangerous. parry, throw. they get free knockdown, leading to wake up games…

13

Dude I fucking been playin P=groove since this game came out…so stfu, it really is bad

14

When a P-Groove jumps in at you as an offensive maneuver, they’re thinking three things:

-Any good anti-air they are jumping in against can easily be parried, therefore,
-They have a relatively free jump-in attack if they want it, meaning,
-They can empty jump-in and throw or be thrown after landing from a jump-in.

The last thing a jumping P-Groover is thinking in an offensive jump is that they’ll be attacked low when landing. If you’re certain that they’re looking for you to stick out an anti-air or going for a empty jump-in, stick out your best low combo starter. 4 out 5 times, you’ll get a nice combo, and the other time they’ll block it.

Down parrying when you land from a jump close to an opponent is probably the highest-risk parry you can make, since if you can get hit high out of it or get thrown out of it, and you can’t react to either one if you miss it. That’s why few people ever do it unless they are certain you’re going to hit low, and a lot of people never do.

Other tips:

Hit high at times when you would normally hit low. In fact, hit high more times than low. Doing this will force P-Groovers to take a higher risk when parrying (they will need to stand up), making the times you do want to hit low more effective.

It’s actually really easy to guard crush someone, if you’re smart on wakeups. Instead of throwing something out there as they get up, delay it slightly, then continue with your normal GC strings. Of course, mix up highs and lows.

You cannot parry during a small jump. Once you land from a small jump where you threw out an attack, you can only cancel it with a special move or super. If anyone tries to do an empty small jump, poke them out of if immediately.

Play Third Strike. It helps a lot. :slight_smile:

15

THREEZ is the future.

16

If u have an air throw: Say they’re in jumpin range, dash back and then immediately dash forward. Since they can’t run, they might wanna react to your backdash by jumping foward to close in. When u dash forward, watch for the jumpin and air throw them. Great!

17

seriously just learn how to use a-sakura and run the fuck away. don’t try to be fancy, just build meter shoshoshoshoshoshoshosho hurricane kick short short uppercut run away repeat.

other then that, best advice i can give is to block and tech their throws, then block again. Most good p-groove players fish for a parry after a tech throw and good p-groove players tech throw pretty much everything.

Uh, so what did we learn? oh yeah, just run away and pick a groove, you build meter 10 times faster then they do so you’ll do fine by doing nothing.

18

kcxj, VDO’s P-raiden is too good huh?

you’ve got it all right though. mix up the timing of your AA’s, throw more, don’t fall into poke strings or patterns, etc. you actually have to THINK to beat a solid P-groover and not rely on easy-mode tactics and brainless strategies to win.

and NEVER THROW OUT A LOW ATTACK AFTER A TECH THROW. after a tech throw, P-groovers always parry low because it’s almost instinct for their opponent to mash out a low medium or something after a tech throw. they parry it, and low forward xx super. again, THINK about what you’re doing and don’t rely on instinct.

peace

19

Man, I’m bummed right now. VDO’s driving back to the gun city this morning and tonight was his last night here. :sad:

He doesn’t ever go for fancy mixups with any of his characters. Just play straight for the guard crush into death combo. All the fancy counter hits setups off a close s.LK or any crazy ass shit with Joe’s 4 hit crazy hands, he could care less about. Either jab you to death, or choke the shitoucha! :rofl: That’s the only mixup he ever needs right there. His “aggression control problem” style can be really hard to fight against when it’s P-Raiden versus Sagat actually. Anybody’s who fought him already in that match-up knows what I’m talking about.

One of my other friends taught me to do DEEP jump-ins against P-groovers. That way if they parry your jump-in, they can’t punish you afterwards without you being able to counter hit them with shorts or a Sagat s.LP. VDO knows that trick already though and just doesn’t parry.

20

Just do it 3s style and insert random quick moves for no reason in your patterns for no reason then throw