Cool, I actually hadn’t seen those matches. I love that the people watching are getting so HYPE over it too, that’s what I love to see with this game :rock:
What up Noc, we definitely gotta play again sometime, it’s been a while. Clown vs. Clown baybee!
Pick a card. :wgrin:
Actually, I do believe the Karnov vs. Mizoguchi video is from the finals of the great grappler tournament. I’m not sure about the others though.
Yeah, you definitely have to hit me up again as well, those matches were intense we had. I need to practice against a good Lee 
Good shit at the wiki. I’d add something but my pass doesn’t work anymore. I’ve sent a request for a new one though.
As an aside, are you gamest_player / 9898?
Nope, my online name is yessterday
^^^^ lmao you troll
A little while back they nuked a bunch of spambots and reset everyone’s passwords, so don’t worry that’s normal.
Anyways, I’ve finished the first version of my matchup chart. Let me stress that I am still second-guessing a lot of this, as there’s a lot of matchups I feel I don’t know all that well. But I wanted to get this out there so everyone else can criticize it as well!
Ray Lee Kar Jea Zaz Miz Sam Clo Mat Yun Mar Fei Ryo TOTAL
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Ray | - | 4.5 | 6 | 6 | 5.5 | 6 | 7 | 7.5 | 7.5 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 9 | 83 (+23) |
Lee | 5.5 | - | 5.5 | 4 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7.5 | 3.5 | 8 | 8.5 | 75.5 (+15.5) |
Karnov | 4 | 4.5 | - | 5.5 | 5 | 6 | 6.5 | 7 | 7 | 7.5 | 7.5 | 8.5 | 6 | 75 (+15) |
Jean | 4 | 6 | 4.5 | - | 4 | 5.5 | 6.5 | 7 | 6.5 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8.5 | 76.5 (+16.5) |
Zazie | 4.5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | - | 6 | 7 | 6.5 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 8.5 | 74.5 (+14.5) |
Mizoguchi | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4.5 | 4 | - | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7.5 | 7.5 | 8 | 8 | 70.5 (+10.5) |
Samchay | 3 | 3 | 3.5 | 3.5 | 3 | 4 | - | 5 | 6.5 | 7.5 | 7 | 7.5 | 7 | 60.5 (+0.5) |
Clown | 2.5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3.5 | 4 | 5 | - | 6 | 9 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 60 (0) |
Matlok | 2.5 | 3 | 3 | 2.5 | 2.5 | 3 | 3.5 | 4 | - | 7 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 52 (-8) |
Yungmie | 2 | 2.5 | 3 | 3.5 | 3 | 2.5 | 2.5 | 4 | 4 | - | 8 | 5 | 6.5 | 46.5 (-13.5) |
Marstorius | 2 | 6.5 | 2.5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2.5 | 1 | 3 | 2 | - | 5 | 8.5 | 40 (-16) |
Feilin | 2 | 2 | 1.5 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2.5 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 5 | - | 7 | 37 (-23) |
Ryoko | 1 | 1.5 | 4 | 1.5 | 1.5 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1.5 | 3.5 | 3 | - | 26.5 (-33.5) |
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If you don’t like scrolling, you can also read it here.
I still think Ray is #1, but clearly #2-5 could be in any order, I honestly think all 4 of those characters are all perfectly tourney viable.
I’m disappointed with how Marstorius is a few places lower than he used to be for me, but honestly this seems about right as it is hard as hell for him to touch a lot of characters, and once he gets in there are various ways to push him back out again.
I want to get some discussion started so please feel free to question anything about this. Also I might have made some errors in the chart itself because I was constantly changing some things, lol.
CoosCoos. Why you always playing my characters?
I’d like to discuss Yungmie personally, I think some matchups should be better for her. I definitely think Mars doesn’t beat her 6-4 (BTW, only Marstorius’ value is on that chart, Yung has a -). Is there really anything Mars can do against tiger kneed smashes (really difficult to get past), standing B (beats or trades with, Mars’ Rising Knee and hits his weak spot), Nerichagi and walldive runaway? Perhaps I’m missing something he can do against all that stuff, but I think it’s one of his hardest matchups.
I think that Lee’s matchup is too harsh there, as he has similar weaknesses as Mars (struggles to get around fireballs, low weak point hitbox) even if he has better jump and the fast rushes. I don’t have as much experience against Lee but I think that matchup should at least be even or slightly favorable to Yung.
Finally, something that I feel makes fights against some fireballers (not Ray of course) fairer is her ability to get over projectiles and send an Aura Smash (Tiger Kneeing it) straight to the fireballer’s face. If you time it right, you avoid the projectile and the Aura usually hits the opponent before he recovers from the projectile, giving her the ability to zone zoners.
I’ll try to play only with her for a while to get better info against Zazie, Karnov and Ray, even though I think Ray and Zazie are accurate.
You know, I’m not sure what the hell happened there, LOL. I have no idea why I put that there… I completely agree with you, it’s more like 8-2 in Yungmie’s favor. Corrected that.
This I will defend though. Yungmie has a pretty bad weak spot vs. Lee (although not as bad as someone like Ray or Samchay) and can get dizzied quite easily. Any blocked Nerichagi can be Senkyutai’ed on reaction, too. Although he doesn’t have a move that passes through fireballs, if he gets over one all he has to do is one immediate qcf, b + HP to get in her face. I think he can deal with her runaway quite well, and of course his damage output is much, much higher. I don’t really see much that she can do to him. I’ll give her a try next time I play against someone who uses Lee, since I haven’t played against many people who actually play Yungmie (only kenuran and ChibiPotPie come to mind). But I strongly think it’s an uphill battle for her.
Depends on the character and the distance, really. A lot of times both projectiles will whiff each other and the other character will have already recovered, unless it’s someone like Feilin (but she sucks anyway). Although I guess that’s good for putting distance between the two characters.
I’ll try to be at GGPO and 2df tonight (I’m Gargamuza in there). I play mostly Lee / Yung / Karnov so we could get some games to test these matchups a bit.
Ryoko 3-7 Feilin? Can you explain why? Overall I think Ryoko’s match ups are ranked far too bad.
I’ll rank the match ups how I see them:
Ryoko:
Ray 1
Lee 2
Kar 3
Jea 3
Zaz 2
Miz 3
Sam 3
Clo 4
Mat 4
Yun 4
Mar 3
Fei 6
Total: 38
LOL. I play everyone, but I do main Jean for sure.
In saying that I don’t really have a problem with the matchups for him. I feel though that Mars/Jean is more like 7-3 to me, but that’s just a personal thing.
What matchups do you not know too well BBH? Maybe some of us can help you with them.
Feilin standing hard punch kills Ryoko in the air. She can also throw fireballs and trip Ryoko like ray (not as effectively).
Yungmie’s Poking range and superior priority never give Ryoko the chance.
Marstorius has better throwing range and has better strings he can combo into Double German with than Ryoko can with Fire Wheel.
Clown’s standing hard punch hits her weak spot, He has so many anti air options.
Matlock is about 4-6 for Ryoko, I’ll give you that. Rest seems about right if you dropped them a half point.
You can roll under fireballs with Ryoko if you time it right, so Feilin can’t trap her too easily.
I think you understimate her. She can quite an amount of damage and her roll special has good priority. Personally I don’t jump too much with her except to cross up or try to get a lucky j.lp in for her close HCB/HCF throw.
Also I don’t use half points. Make it 1-20 instead of 1-10. That would be the same as using half points.
that chart is pretty solid. i really need to try out zazie.
only thing i disagree with is mars vs lee, i’d rate it as 6-4 for marstorius.
Yeah, I know about the rolls, but C.HK will poke Ryoko away again… And if Ryoko double rolled she can have a stored dp for Ryoko to eat…
I dunno. She’s my other main, but the more I use her the less stuff I find solid. I really wish she had more stuff that could hang with the rest of the cast, but it’s so hard to get in and do damage if your opponent really knows what they are doing. But I agree with you, damage is her thing. IF you can get in, she’s alright. Not as solid as Marstorius up close though. He has some scary mind games, and he’s hard to shake at close range because so many of his moves move him closer… and that Double German range is a force to be reckoned with. If Ryoko’s Fire Wheel had Double German’s range, I’d say she would be as good as Feilin. I dunno though, as is they didn’t give her much… Maybe in FHD HD Remix they will (Too bad Data East is dead :/).
But SNK does own the rights to the FHD characters since Mizoguchi was in KOF:MIRA.:wgrin:
Why is jean vs mars is 6,5 on jean’s row but 2 on mars’s row? Plus, it looks alot more like 9-1 to me, same with jean vs ryoko.
Her matchups are ranked bad because she’s just that bad. Sorry. :sad:
Here’s how Feilin wins vs. Ryoko - sweep into fireball. Unlike most projectiles, Ryoko can not roll under Feilin’s because it’s too low to the ground. So if she’s constantly being pushed back with fireballs, she has little choice but to jump eventually. There is juuuust enough recovery on Feilin’s fireball to begin immediately charging her down, up + Punch attack, which she can do if she sees Ryoko jump.
From full-screen distance Feilin can also obviously throw fireballs, and if Ryoko jumps forward over one, Feilin’s standing HP beats all Ryoko’s jumping attacks from mid-screen. Feilin can do a surprisingly good job of keepaway in this match.
The only problem of course is that Feilin’s damage output is so low, she can’t screw up. Ryoko CAN still get in, and can punish blocked d, u + P’s on the ground with her dash grab (which doesn’t do much damage either, but hey it’s damage). It’s an uphill battle, but not completely unwinnable.
The 1-10 scheme is the one always used with matchup charts, everyone would wonder what the hell I was doing if I used 1-20 :looney: I use half points mainly in situations where I’m leaning in two ways towards that match.
Well I meant to have Mars/Jean as 8-2 but screwed up (see below). Interesting though, what does Mars have that makes that match more bearable than his average match against a projectile thrower? I don’t see much, since Jean is REALLY good at keepaway with his low-recovery fireball, long-range sweep, and superb anti-air capabilities… and even if Mars lands Double German and goes for crossup afterward, Jean can wakeup flash kick, which is the easiest special move to do on wakeup as a reversal.
Since I’ve only played a couple good Yungmies and I don’t use her all that much, I’m definitely not entirely sure on hers. I’ve never played against a good Matlok (as far as I can remember anyway) so I have only my own experiences playing him for that. The only solid Clown I’ve played was Nocturnal and we haven’t played in a few months. And of course I consider Zazie my least comfortable character so I’m not entirely sure if what I rated for him is correct, but he’s obviously very dangerous. So it’s a lot of their matches I’m not entirely sure on.
Maybe, it’s definitely closer than I originally thought.
That was one of the errors I made when I was shuffling around columns when the results of the chart ended up different than my original expectations for character order
I could see Mars vs. Jean being possibly 9-1 since it is so insanely hard to get in, but I don’t think Ryoko is COMPLETELY outclassed in this matchup. Ryoko can of course roll under fireballs, and her sweep will actually beat Jean’s sweep if he sticks it out of range. Plus her dash grab is one of the few special moves that can actually punish a blocked flash kick (again, not for much damage, but at least it’s something). Still very very very difficult to win, but I don’t think it’s hopeless.
(also because of my error, this would actually make Jean #2 in total points. Uhhh!)