What is “presenting themselves nicely” even mean?
If it’s dudes in ill fitting suits and smelling like a 12 year old boys weekend slumber party then aight.
they ran their own event because alot of other events for years excommunicated them, and you wanna talk about street cred?!
LMFAO they made themselves and the crap and stigmas they have put up with…
How cant you say that you arent using the argument that smash isnt a fighting game. then directly point to them being “smash players”? that doesnt make any sense
I have been to tournaments where people only play one game. does that make them “king of fighters players” or make them “marvel players”? No
and frosty faustings is a big event. you wouldn’t go there playing something unless you were expecting to satisfy your personal expectations. those guys go there to play specific
games. no problem
The argument that smash players dont play other things is false
forward a smash player has been seen playing marvel at a high level
the weekly that i go to for melee and smash 4 has people that are hyped for street fighter 5 and are trying to get prepared for it.
those same people go to other events across town that host even old school games like mk3. they even hosted tasunoko vs capcom.
other communities have to become more inviting less exclusive, more inclusive
EVO was not built on one thing or game and it stays as a large event perpetuated by the games you see from year to year
if you arent making the argument that smash isnt a fighting game and it brings viewers and competition
and it made it on EVO stage
then I dont see the issue here
all things considered, the typical FGC person will play more fighting games than the average smash person. If they spend a lot of times in FG, that person usually started there, went to smash and then came back to a sort of inbetween experience.
You’re community successfully turned Evo from an event i’ve been wanting to go to since 2003 to one of the biggest “Lol Nope” destinations I have.
Btw, good you on fuckers for supporting FGs at your tournaments. Oh wait, you don’t. You’ve had major tournaments in the last year that didn’t feature games from our communities but still cry and force yourself on the infrastructure from here. Good shit.
if having people that play smash despite the other games being played there makes you no want to go then dont lmfao
The other piece of your post
people for years
smash isnt a fighting game we dont want them
game gets one round at evo
gets left out
smash community says ok
runs their own events
they have success
now years later you got the gall to say what you just said
even though there have been events where all games have been included some where i have personally been to
you dont start inclusion from big events anyways
you start them from locals and weeklies the big events are the end result
this notion that the community isnt grassroots like every other one is ridiculous
and then you have events exclusively for other fighting games
dont see you complaining about those
If you weren’t a huge fucking moron, you’d realize you answered what the issue is. Your community keeps wanting in on a place that isn’t about their shit. At no point have I denied that you guys weren’t grassroot or begrudged your success.The issue with your community has always been the need to insert yourselves into this one.
You’ve wanted inclusion into our biggest event for years. You now have it but your community won’t reciprocate in kind. So now a fighting game tournament is slowly turning to be about Mario shit. Look I love me some smash but all this does is make fighting games niche in their own tournament. Your community grows and becomes the worlds bestest eSport…that’s great…for you.
I came here for some hadoukens and people getting rom. Fastfalls, L-Cancels and overcomplicated wavedashes are ------> here
What do you mean
Into something that isn’t their shit?
Evo consists of games
Like its the culmination of competitive fighting games that people take interest in at the time
So I mean what do you mean by what’s yours?
Or it’s not their shit?
Hell what do you mean by reciprocate? There are plenty of events that run all sorts of fighting games.
Evo isn’t built and proceeded by one thing and or game. So when you say “what’s yours” it’s confusing to me
I mean there are like nine games taking place lmfao
I don’t see any game being compressed in Evo.
Is it some sort of complex or something with you cause maybe the game you want isn’t there?
And you made the argument that smash runs there own events with out including other games
Even though tekken has regionals for itself
And there capcom cup run for certain games
But I don’t see you complaining about those.
So then we get to place like locals and weeklies
The events that actually matter for building amongst the community
With the ones I go to I see all types of fighting games being played
From tekken to smash to guilty gear
You know some of the games that seem to be on the list
Quoting to remind myself to tear this apart when I sober up/give a fuck.
Meh, still drunk/drinking but these arguments are so damn flimsy.
Part the first: Street Cred = Street Credibility
**
they ran their own event because alot of other events for years excommunicated them, and you wanna talk about street cred?!
LMFAO they made themselves and the crap and stigmas they have put up with…**
[details=Spoiler]cred·i·bil·i·ty
ˌkredəˈbilədē/
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.
"the government’s loss of credibility"
synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; More
the quality of being convincing or believable.
"the book’s anecdotes have scant regard for credibility"
synonyms: plausibility, believability, tenability, probability, feasibility, likelihood, credence; More
another term for street credibility.[/details]
They were “excommunicated” because people did not believe in the game as it was unreliable and undependable because it very much hinged on artificial rules to even make it FEASIBLE as a competitive game. Street cred is not about continuing on with your thing despite it being shit or not, it comes from respect and admiration of your peers. Your definition of street cred is on par with belonging to the Flat Earth Society. Credibility is that part that is left wanting.
Part the second:
How cant you say that you arent using the argument that smash isnt a fighting game. then directly point to them being “smash players”? that doesnt make any sense
I have been to tournaments where people only play one game. does that make them “king of fighters players” or make them “marvel players”? No
I purposefully avoided saying that Smash players are not fighting game players. I made that irrelevant. Smash is a fighting game, sure take that and run with it, but it’s a fighting game that doesn’t play by the rules of other fighting games. It’s like comparing playing house rules Uno to playing a form of poker. Both card games, but one card game can be shit while the other is good.
**
and frosty faustings is a big event. you wouldn’t go there playing something unless you were expecting to satisfy your personal expectations. those guys go there to play specific
games. no problem
**
It’s a mid sized regional, I pot monstered games, I played mystery tournament. I played games I support, agreed, nothing here is of consequence.
**
The argument that smash players dont play other things is false
forward a smash player has been seen playing marvel at a high level
the weekly that i go to for melee and smash 4 has people that are hyped for street fighter 5 and are trying to get prepared for it.
those same people go to other events across town that host even old school games like mk3. they even hosted tasunoko vs capcom.**
Anecdotal. I’ve seen people play Hungry Hungry Hippos in Mystery Tournaments, they were hype. Played the game since. I’m going to run a Hungry Hungry Hippos bracket next tournament. Need reg numbers, which we could pull from challonge pretty easily.
**
other communities have to become more inviting less exclusive, more inclusive
EVO was not built on one thing or game and it stays as a large event perpetuated by the games you see from year to year**
I mean yeah let’s include Dong Dong Never Dies to be more inclusive, because it’s a special snowflake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXOo2OBheEw
EVO was built on a premise of fighting game players supporting fighting games. Smash has its own tournaments, it has MLG, it has Nintendo numbers off of selling anything with those titles involved.
Oh yeah and try selling a Smash game by including Ryu vs Soul Caliber game by including Link.
I’m not sure the “typical FGC person” is very much a multigame player, especially when it comes to entering tournaments. That said, I’d expect most of the multigame fiends to be “FGC” people more than Smash people.
But street credibility doesn’t apply you might as well forgo that metaphor altogether
It has nothing to do with trustworthiness its a matter off support and as you can see people support melee that gives credence to the fact that they will show up to events/play the game reliably and hense why they are at Evo
And that is all the “credibility” you should need if you wanted a proper definition
I don’t know why you would spite anecdotal factual evidence
And expect me to be enlightened by your reaching metaphors
And the mlg
I seem to remember msg dropped it also then picked it back up when they saw how reliable the community was
Just how it earned the spot at Evo as the players who play this fighting game supported it
So the rest or what your saying is your not making the argument that smash isn’t a fighting game…
Ok
Evo is a showcase of fighting games what’s compeitive and has interest and it seems to have a wider scope then your attempts to put a proverbial asterisk next to smash. despite it have 2 people fighting each other.
Such elitism solves nothing and detracts rather then solve
Heck should psychic force be on the main stage
Or maybe tobai?
Or Bloody roar?
Or maybe it should be the game that has a community that actually supports itself hmmm… Melee
A lot of the fgc people i’ve met would have legitimately tried other games to the point they can play them casually. If people arent playing their game, they’ll try whatever. Smash is just smash. Smash sessions are smash sessions as opposed to what happens in some areas (definitely true for mine) where you have to try and have set ups for the most popular games.
Smash players have it good in that they only have 2 games to their community and a bunch of shit that you cant even call kusoge. When there was choice, they couldnt even handle it well. Take a special type of place to hate the sequel to your game series so much that you hack it. Now you have legitimate choice, they have a fuckload of infighting about it.
Saying that xyz need to show up is hilariously demeaning for some of those communities. I wanna say blazblue was some 300 players. Thats an amazing for anime. Even when GG was at its height, it wasnt pulling those numbers at evo. Expecting the same level of participation as a community that’s been on the same game for 15 years? Lol. Look at SF4. See what happens when everybody is on the same game?
Is there really hype for Pokken? I never hear anyone talk about that game. Just seems like a case of money buying a spot in Evo, but maybe I’m just out of touch. I can understand having both Sm4sh and Melee though, those are 2 different communities.
I don’t mean to demean them. I’m just saying that Melee is where it is because people show up. There is no other reason, and it’s a huge outlier. If you want into EVO without a hat full of money and an old game, you need entrants. A ton of them.
And yes, people do show up. That’s why CEOtaku happened and is happening again. That’s exactly what the scene needs, and I hope the event grows. It’s exactly the kind of thing that I want to happen, happened, and succeeded because people came in droves to play their games.
Smash, as a scene, really started with melee. They’ve only had to deal with 2 sequels. How many entries are there in SF2 alone? This is not getting into Alpha, SF3, SF4, etc. That’s why all their numbers are always huge. Everybody has been on the same shit with no other viable alternatives. Last gen was filled with a lot of crazy good alternatives. some could make it, others couldn’t, shit happens. Smash is only smash and will forever be smash. Ours will be a multitude of game and hopefully stays that way forever. That means that some number seem small but to really look at what’s going on, you should look at entry numbers for all non-smash games and combine them. What would the FGC look like if it was one monolythic game and nothing equally as good ever came out? Evo was 2,222 for USF4, add the other games to it and you’d have an idea of what goes on with Smash.
They’ve had so many smash majors without other tournaments because they really don’t need to. Everybody over there is on the same games. This is great for them but they aren’t about this life. They don’t need Evo, they wanted Evo. MrWiz fuck it all up and now the big tournament for this games, the one that really helped keep a lot of shit together got to eat a dick.
Hopefully we get more stuff like CEOtaku or ComboBreaker’s focus on KI and MK. Those are great things for us. The moment you start taking away opportunities for exposure from one of the scenes that make us, that’s when things are headed in the wrong direction. New KoF is coming out in a couple of months and isn’t going to be at Evo, SF4 is still incredibly alive and won’t be there either but we have 2 smash games and some pokemon bullshit. How much sense does that make?
KOF14 doesn’t even have a release date. How could they schedule it for Evo when no one even knows if it will be out by then?
Neither does Tekken 
SNK just doesn’t have the money to buy a spot
Oh I didn’t know that.
Not specifically about 3rd Strike, but every time I make younger players try old games, they either say it’s broken (zoning is too strong, damage is too high, throws are too strong, hitboxes feels like they’re too big) or inputs are too strict. Yeah, even for 3s, they say inputs are too strict. smh
Difference between tekken and KoF is there is an arcade release, with a finished product (not the product that will be released on consoles, but a product non the less). KoF isn’t played anywhere, he’ll only like 9 characters have even been announced. What they going to have an Evo tournament with the PAX build?
Pertho is summing it up best: Smash guys only play smash, and demand their game to be at other events so they can play smash … and only smash. I get they’re trying to expand their audience, but EVO is meant to be a “community” type event, where members of the general fighting game community can meet up and play games together. If smash players just want to play smash and nothing else, why bother forcing it into EVO? If we’re really trying to maximize the number of people that show, even if they don’t care about games beyond their own, the logical conclusion is to scrap all the fighters except SF and MK to make room for ESports games like Hearthstone, LoL, and CS:GO.
Smash gets the support it does because its community is so damn huge. Smash is a party game with wide appeal on a console that doesn’t see very many fighting games. The GC/Wii did really well, but the only other serious fighters I can think of on those platforms were Soul Calibur 2, a port of CvS2, and TvC. The communities for the first two were more based in arcades and didn’t care about consoles that much, and the last one flew under almost everyone’s radar. Mainline 2D and 3D fighters were generally side by side in arcades and game shelves, so people who played one had pretty easy access to another.
So yes, the smash community grew independently of the main FGC, and for reasons other than the “not a fighting game” argument.
Idk, I don’t mind Smash being there as it give the elitists something to bitch about. Otherwise they’d be bitching about MK, KI, and eventually Rising Thunder(assuming it gets a spot after release).
edit: I’m not saying everyone complaining about it is an elitist. There are some valid arguments against Smash being made here.