Fei Long Theory Fighter/General Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

She’s one of the characters that can freely dance around the stage (Seth is another), so Fei has a tough time keeping her in check. If you knock her down in the corner, that’s one thing, but Viper standing up is a whole 'nother story. No matter what you do though, the match-up is going to be a pain in the ass if the Viper you’re playing just keeps moving and stays off the ground/out of your range.

Somethings that really help me in the matchup:

  1. Reversal her cr.MK and cr.MP’s with CW.

–You’ll catch her TK before it starts unless she uses the HK version, which is suicide and won’t happen. If she tries to cancel into EX Seismo, you also interrupt that by way of not being in range of the blow, and by outlasting her I-frames with your active frames.

  1. cr.MP at max range on her wake-up if you can’t get a safe jump.

–If she EX Seismo’s, you can block before it hits. If she HK TK’s, you won’t get knocked out since the knuckle needs to be relatively close to hit low (I’m quite sure, but please re-test this. It’s worked for me a few times already). If she simply blocks, you get your +2 on her and can use that for offense.

  1. Focus nearly all Burning Kicks. Dash cancel for safety.

–If she hits this high, you can get a crumple easily. If she hits this low, you can backdash/forward dash safely since none of her moves are fast enough to catch that. If it whiffs, you’ll have SOME chance to escape before she lands and grabs you, whereas Ultra would leave you wide open for lv3 Focus.

  1. Safe jump her if you can get the distance right.

–Due to her slow moves, it’s easy to do this, although you really can’t follow up with much since the varying invincibility on her moves make it tough to choose which one to pull next. A late Flame Kick would work, but you have to be good with timing it.

  1. Walk for most of the match.

–Jumping leaves you open to Burning Kicks, anti-airs, and surprise Seismo’s. Remember that she can combo into her Ultra from nearly a full-screen away. Sometimes she’ll go through 2-4 Seismos and cancels to chip you, but you can just eat the chip. If you manage to close the distance, focus on getting LP Rekka x1 perfectly. You can sometimes get away with Rekka x2 since her normals are slow, but don’t risk it unless you delay the second.

  1. Don’t jump if you’re next to her and stay out of the corner.

–Anti-air HK TK will let her juggle right into an Ultra, even on trade. Air Burning Kick will let her juggle into an Ultra too.

Reference battles: K Mada, PlayinCODNaked. PlayinCODNaked is a beast with Viper, can’t consistently beat him. Learning a lot from those fights though.

102

I forgot to mention her overly stupid hitbox that makes everything whiff like st.lp. 3rd hit of ex fk and 3rd hit of cw.

2)Eh I stay a little closer because her backdash isn’t bad at all and will get her out scott free if shes not in that corner

3)Well the thing is she can empty jump like you pointed out on reaction to your focus charge, She can do j.lk/fk into bk which will catch your FA or its dash, she can mixup where she burnkicks either in front or behind messing up your dashing leading up to big damage. High risk little reward. Its eh.

5)I just want to point out that a blocked seismo is 30 chip damage. Thats pretty much a light attack and she can cancel them together. Hurts. Better then taking it the hit but eh.

103

ive learnt that in the bison fight there is an optimal range where his LK scissorkick will whiff and leave him open for a punish and his MK scissor kik will be unsafe and punishable by cr.lp into rekKa .Just something to think about.

edit…someguy i tried to add you on psn but your list is full lol ,

104

I made some room. My list is always full so I always gotta make room.

105

Yeah Viper is a pain in the ass, she deals out a lot of damage and she has so many mixups. Viper eliminated Inthul at seasons beatings as well as ECT2. He even made a post asking all Viper players to send him messages to fight him she he can get a better idea of the matchup. Mago made his fight against Viper look so easy but then again he is Mago

106

I used to main Viper, and this is my take on the match up

U2, have it in store, but dont use it, unless the person is very blatant in their flame kick/jump in setups. Its the fear factor that is good about it

cr mk is GODLIKE in this match up, makes flame kicks whiff for a free punish, makes High Punch thunder knuckle whiff on her wake up, either beats or ure safe vs her ex seismo.

I also dont allow her to jump all over the place, neutral jumping with roundhouse is very good versus her out of hp thunder knuckle range. Itl make it very hard for her to approach, and beats a medium punch or lp thunder knuckle and instant flame kicks. Be ready to uppercut or roundhouse jump ins, DONT BE SCARED OF HER. At worst, if she jumps in and cancels in flame kick, ull eat 100 points of damage, just be ready next time.

Carefull with back dashes, ex seismon tags it for free. Speaking of seismos, dont jump forward when blocking one, best to fadc or jump straigh up, Viper has a lot of seismo feint traps. Ex chicken wing will tag her from very far if u react to a released hp seismo.

be carefull with ure own dp, even though u can fadc it, if the Viper player sees it coming, her back dash will make it whiff completely.

Basically guys, u have to make her afraid of you. not the opposite.

107

^^^basically what this dude said.

id stay away from trying to reversal CW trying to intercept thunder knuckles except for when you really need it. like maybe once or twice per match. when i do that against wolfkrone, he just starts doing feints and then sweeps me or ex siesmos after i fly over him

generally, i just try not to let her start the mind games in the first place. i dont sit still much in this one. dont be reckless, but dont be passive either. smart pressure

108

Yea, forgot to mention that EX Seismo kills backdash if she has meter for it. I’m very cautious about using CW from afar to tag Seismos though, since she’ll feint every so often and do something even more damaging to punish you (Seismo feint> EX Seismo> Ultra).

I support neutral jumping as well, but do it sparingly. If you jump as a random defensive tactic, it’s possible that she won’t be doing anything and will have an anti-air Thunder Knuckle> Ultra ready for you. If you do it out of range, she can also SJ Air burn Kick to try to knock you out of the air. If you jump at all, I find that LK does a good job of knocking her out of her burning kick due to its speed though. Definitely worth it to jump every so often, but not too much. Can’t she AA you with burning kick> Ultra too?

I gotta try that cr.MK though. A bit harder to time the meaty, but definitely possible and I like the sound of the dodging effect.

What strength of CW are you using, Mike? I usually tag Viper with LK or MK; either one does a great job interception, and doesn’t really fly over (MK might). I don’t know how much recovery is on the feint, but it’s worked for me pretty well overall. If we have data on that, maybe there could be something more solid to say.

Sweep shouldn’t be able start-up in between the moves either. Or do you mean you get swept after you fly over? Again, that’s remedied by weaker versions of CW. I agree that you should be patient and not always do it, however. But it’s there and it gives you a way to poke through her offense so she’ll have to be wary of it.

As a note though, never reversal the TK itself. She’s on +frames for that.

@Someguy92

Blocking the Seismos hurt a bit, but the more important factor to note is that it limits her options as far as scoring damage. I mean, you’re sitting there and blocking the Seismo–she can’t really combo afterwards; she can’t count on a safe approach, and she can’t take it much further than the chip. You can still move in between so you’re not deadlocked or anything at least.

Still looking for anti- Burning Kick measures though…

109

CW is not a move I’d rely on for punish seismo or using at 3/4s screen. Using it after TK isn’t so bad but outside of that your risking a full unscaled ultra

110

now that i think about it, i hadnt really tried lk. that is probrablly more solid cuz viper dosent have too many, if not one 3 frame normal, and im pretty sure she wouldnt be able to duck it

i know HK definately passes over, and mk does from closer ranges, so i try not to do either one of those

and yeah, i meant in my recovery i usually get swept

on a completely unrelated note, im switching over to gen until if/when arcade changes come as DLC. mostly because i missed out on all my opportunities for majors in this version, and i found out i enjoy meta-game character development. fei is pretty well fleshed out now, and gen seems like undiscovered territory to me even tho ive been messing around with him since vanilla

im only picking the shirtless alt tho, in honor of fei

111

neutral jump hk will beat air flame kicks.

also, pick ure moments when quick rising, some ambiguous viper jump ins are completely gone if u dont quick rise. cross up flame kicks as well ( auto correct dp can beat those, but its a gamble if viper plays with her jump in timing…its worth going for an uppercut from time to time to cast DOUBT in the viper players mind)

and really if ure going to Chicken wing, ex is the best one to go for, and do it when she is right next to u. Unless the player can do the Uryo option select (the one where ex thunder knuckle catches the opponent) u should be clear of any danger, baring hp seismo, which again, is not so bad, since ure far away and reset the situation.

Mago has insane reactions: in his set versus Uryo, whenever Uryo would go for cr mp into mp thunder knuckle, Mago would Hk Chicken Wing it. Very hard to react too, because Viper is the type of character that makes her opponenent flinch the best, so be wary of this, but its something to consider.

and cr fierce is good here as well. it will beat thunder knuckles and her bad pokes.

Rekkas. U can delay them between first and 2nd with not much fear.

and finally, if u dont want to use U2, option select U1 on her wake up beats most of her escape options, except for the ever so risky High Punch Thunder Knuckle.
I do it with cr lk, buffered into U1, Alioune recommends with cr lp (as he says ull be safe from a random U1 on her end)
-Catches her back dash
-Destroys ex seismo
-Will hit three times on a reversal ex burning kick
-Will hit two times on reversal reg burning kick

not specific to Viper, but also of note since I mentioned option select U1. It will beat

DeeJays wake up options as well, except for Ex Up Kicks.
Makotos back dash and ex oroshi
All of Codys wakes up
forgot the rest

but it catches alot of the casts back dashes, except for those two whores Chun and Rose, but at least we got cl mp hk chicken wing on those cunts

112

I kinda wonder why these general discussion threads aren’t stickied in other character forums. The Chun li one is just great.

113

Just to add on os ultra 1 against vipers wakeup. If she hp thunderknuckles. You’ll be lucky to get one hit.

OS Chicken wing/flame kick isn’t as good as you’d hope.

OS Chicken Wing
If she EX seismo hk/lk will whiff over her head. Mk hits once
If she backdashes she can block in time
If she TKs. You both whiff
If she Burn Kick you’ll hit her, whiffs on ex burn

OS Flame kick
If HP TK She’ll get hit by the flame kick
If EX seismo You whiff in her face. She gets a punish
If she backdash Your boned
If She EX BurnKick you get hit

The os ultra thats able to catch her backdash and her ex seismo on wakeup is the best reason to use u1. Everything else kinda sucks.

114

safe jump and cr.hp works well.

If she ex seismos the cr.hp will hit her out of it.
If she ex burnkicks the cr.hp will go under it and you recover in time to punish.
If she backdashes cr.hp will hit her.
If she tks you block.
If she gets hit cr.hp will come out and combo.

115

Predictions for the weekend:

  1. Mago wins GodsGarden,
  2. 31 n00b Feis try to scrub with him.
  3. Everyone rants about Fei being God-like and how there’s no way to win, at all. Impossible. Period. He has too many options, goddammit.
  4. Everyone starts calling you a tier whore if you win, and says that picking Fei is like cheating.
  5. Everyone insults you for using a high-tier character when you lose.
116

Funny you mention this Nos, I was just saying yesterday how i’m having more and more mirror matches now with scrubs, that think CW from full screen followed up FK is going to win them matches which surprisingly they have a decent amout of points with this shit. I’m also noticing alot of Fei videos showing up on SRK and whatnot from random people i’ve never heard of… Are people realizing Fei isn’t “garabage” anymore…I’m not liking this…didn’t want him to become a mainstream character…oh well those were the good ole days. lol

117

Me and you think alike Mrtcohens , i was also thinking how Fei longs mysterious and ambiguous aura has totally been diminished …and peopled are no longer wowed by the fact that i actually win with Fei long sadface . And so many people pulling out their closet Feis now so he is being used more often…and not to mention the new Fei scrubs that are popping up now relying on fucking chicken wing 50/50’s ALL DAY .

and when Mago wins Godsgarden this whole thing will be blown out of proportion. I would advise other Feis(Nosone,Counter,Someguy92, Hnic Mike) to avoid defending Feis dignity in other threads as those dumbasses will not care/listen to/ acknowledge any points you put across and they will proceed to knsult your low skill level and say you dont know how to play Fei long lol

118

Look at the bright side. Maybe people will actually bother to learn the matchup… or not. Them not knowing the matchup makes my life a hell of a lot easier.

By the way. The True Mark of a Fei Scrub-
1)Nj.Rh times a thousand
2)HK CW followed up by flamekick regardless of meter or situation
3)Rekkas regardless of block/hit or spacing
4)C.lk,C.lk,C.lk,C.lk whats a bnb?

119

yh i hope people fucking learn the matchup rather than bitch about how he is so 0P . And more people learning the match will mean tougher matches which means more levelling up from our end . Oh and i think you mean cr.lp ,cr.lp,cr.lp …whats a bnb?

120

So much anger in this thread.