I have fun actually putting time, thought, and effort into my games.
What the hell are you doing? Seriously, your completely closed-off viewpoint that’s completely out of touch with reality doesn’t offer anything interesting for this conversation except for a target for people to point and laugh at.
At this point, it’s safe to say that everyone just needs to take a look at what Mike and his team are doing and see what they can learn.
It’s a game where offensive momentum is really powerful. So, whatever you want to say the comeback mechanics are, they’re not really doing much.
The mechanics of the game shouldn’t be doing anything for the losing player. If you want any sort of tool or advantage, you should have to earn it either through active play or smart decisions.
Just wanted to point out that ultra damage is dependent on revenge meter built, meaning if you land it as soon as you are able, you will NOT get half of your opponents health down. To land half damage you need to either land it raw with full revenge meter stocked or only combo 1 move before it because the damage scaling in that game kicks in FAST. Exception being landing a few strong moves first for like 300+ damage and then tacking on the fully stocked ultra at the end for an additional 150-200.
Still though, the only guarantee from revenge/ultra meter is that you’ll be able to burn it at least once a round (which still might not happen).
I’m actually pretty tolerant of ultras as far as “comeback” mechanics go. It’s just meter. I’ve dealt with BS meter situations in several games. I still think the better player wins the majority of the time (you don’t start out with half life) and the only real factor that might change that slightly is a bad matchup.
I only dislike very extreme cases of a comeback mechanic like Marvel 3’s X factor lvl 3 and dark phoenix because those shift the matchup entirely and make it extremely hard to defend yourself.
-Anyway… paid DLC that affects the competitive aspect of a game shouldn’t be in. Unless it’s an update towards the game’s tournament standard (a la AE or BBCS2) and even then it shouldn’t exceed any more than $20, otherwise just release it on a new disc. This gems thing is sounding ridiculous in that regard and I would’ve been more open to the idea if they didn’t make it some paid DLC BS.
-Also, letting the game breathe for a year or two is also something I sympathize with. Developers are not going to catch everything and think up every strategy, so they should give time for that stuff to emerge before making blatant changes to “fix” something that might not even be a problem after the players discover enough tech.
Wouldn’t just devolve into a game where the first touch wins free, though?
???..!!!:wow:
I still don’t buy that ultras are an advantage of any sort. I can’t think of any matchup that suddenly swings wildly out of favor as soon as the bar starts flaming.
Sorry playing so many SNK games.
If you’re not changing your gameplan as soon as your opponent gets any sort of meter, then you’re either doing things wrong or you just don’t notice that you’re playing your opponent differently.
We played exactly this type of game for over a decade, it was called Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and it was awesome.
Uh, yeah, like every fighting game, or really almost every game, has some kind of comeback mechanic. The difference between most of those and stuff like x-factor is that you have to play smart for them to matter, and they don’t often give you advantage per se.
This isn’t the same thing as the match up now sucks. Specifically ultras do 1 of two things. Make things that I didn’t wanna get hit by already do more damage or make certain options unsafe[r]. They can also give an extra tool in rare instances.
So my theory is this, A) good defense is core to any play therefore not getting hit just scaled up somewhat. B) Fireballs are the general victim of ultra based [I’d say move as opposed to strategy] changes. This tends to be balanced out by giving it to chars who have fewer options against fireballs[and zoning in general to a degree]. Abel/Makoto/Adon/Chun/Rog-ish/Bison[now -ish]/etc. And also Yun/Yang for no adequately explain reason. Except to be a dick. That being said, they’re still susceptable the that type of zoning at the beginning and against a clever player may never get it off. [I’d also like to note that extreme fireball chars like guile and deejay get to use theirs regardless of whether or not I have U2 - it can also be baited with a FADC for a massive punish. Probably an Ultra 
] C) You cannot reasonably prevent an opponent from getting their ultra unless they’re seth and he gets fuudo’d. Therefore theoretically both players have the same ‘comeback’ potential, no?
I suppose my point is that the simple fact that they do a lot of dmg isn’t really such a bad thing. After 3 iterations I think they’ve been well integrated into the game. Perhaps the same could be said for X-factor eventually.
It still means that the match-up changes in the other guys favor just because he took damage, doesn’t matter how big or small an advantage he got.
What the fuck.
MvC2 is pretty close to that and you think that’s too nice. What the fuck do you think is gonna happen?
It did not change in his favor. In the case of fireball killers it gave them a tool to help even out something they’d normally have an issue with. At the cost of 50% life the match gets closer to even. You can’t just look at in a vacuum [of which I would claim ST has a huge part in creating. I HATE the idea that people are a-ok with characters who simply had marginal chances to win tournies strictly their move set would not allow them victory. Yes Sean is not going to win in 3s. This is not because he everytime he got parried he lost half a health bar]. As far as dmg is concerned yes, it gives them a chance to even it up. In exchange most often the other char either already had that chance or just gained the chance to do so. So it should even out, right?
The matchup still changes in the favor of the character who gained an extra option. It might not have made it so that they can win the match, but it’s still made it so that they losing player now gains extra tools.
And that there is the problem, the match is made closer to even simply be the other player taking damage.
Why is balance coming into the discussion. In any case, this has already been addressed.
And what exactly did they do to earn that chance to “even it up?”
Nothing, that’s what. The issue with Ultras is that it’s a system designed to artificially keep the match close.
o_O. y’know if you just started with an ultra meter a la A3 I don’t think anyone would be complaining. As implemented it comes off as a comeback mechanic, but to pigeonhole it like that and even imply that it can suddenly turn matches that would have otherwise been patently won is silly. [again fuudo aside, but c’mon. tanden, ex shoryu. That’s really just asking for it.] In some cases it even reduces options like for yang, Ultra combos give worse oki then FADC mixups. And without Ultras at ALL then some matches like Sagat v. Makoto would be miserable. He could basically throw fireballs all day and give me a migraine. So even BEFORE the game started he would have an insane advantage. What earned him that? Is it not similar?
Lets try to get away from the idea that just because its a ‘comeback mechanic’ it is intrinsically WRONG.
Generally, whatever they had to do to overcome the disadvantages of being hit in the first place. Mixups, pressure, etc.
I see this in a lot of places. What exactly do you mean?
It’s not like having Ultra takes away his non-Ultra options. Him having Ultra means you have to play more carefully since he can, at the very least, pull it out when you fuck up.
He made the better choice on the select screen. Nothing is stopping you from having another character in your pocket as a counter-pick. The game begins at the select screen after all.
Yet it is intrinsically wrong because it is a mechanic designed to artificially make matches closer. Especially considering the retardedly heavy damage scaling the game has.