Not really. It’s very rarely seen outside of a single Japanese player.
This.
Just because you see J ToD Kokujin twice in one match doesn’t mean that’s the norm.
This can’t be right. I remember Ken I doing it back in the day. Is it actually that no one can do it or that weighting your game around it is a suboptimal method of play. I was under the impression that against Yun/Chun SAI was heavily preferred. I have an insanely hard time imagining Boss/KO/J couldn’t do it if he wanted. I’ll defer to you Pherai, but seriously?
And no, ToD combos create a situation where risk v. reward is always weighted towards reward and create absurd mixup situations where you cannot risk the 100% tag. Like getting grabbed by makoto in the corner. MvC2/3 are frantic and exciting, but they’re not make more ‘fun’ because you die in a touch. c’mon man. If that’s the case then HnK for LIFE
Edit: Hell this is the REASON X-Factor is so outworldly scary.
Also, ToD doesn’t matter so much in Marvel because you can’t take more than a third of overall life in a combo. (Unless you get a happy birthday)
I guess someone hasn’t read Fanatiq’s article on it.
There’s also his follow up on MvC3.
Because Fanatiq said it that’s how I should feel about a game? Can we agree to disagree? And why are we against ultras if we want more damage? You should be asking for them to be cancellable! In fact this whole article suggests that ultras are a great thing! Instant turnarounds! Lets not nerf Yun, lets just give everyone else a DK!
C’mon this is nuts.
Because what fanatiq said hits the nail on the head in terms of what made high level MvC2 awesome.
And Ultras don’t make things better since they’re, as implemented in IV, the only way to deal big damage. Unlike MvC2 and 3 which have combo systems free enough (and damage scaling that isn’t as retarded as to kill off almost all damage after a certain point) that you have a myriad of ways to deal damage, with or without X-Factor. This is aside from the whole “taking damage to be able to use them” bit too.
So whats the lesson here? So X-Factor is good? And wolverine should stay as is? And Phoenix is super exciting! Magneto combos look fun! Zero sure can go for awhile!
But SF4 is boring. Shits like little kids hitting each other. And they don’t even color within the lines.
I’m not saying that SFIV is boring (good job putting words in my mouth). We’re just pointing out that SFIV is flawed and throughout the years, folks here have been able to isolate what those flaws are.
I’m not even saying that MvC3 is perfect, heck it’s hella flawed as well, but it sure as heck does a quite a few things better than SFIV.
P.S. X-Factor isn’t even a comeback mechanic in the same vein that Ultras are. You can still use X-Factor even if you’re winning (in fact, alot of folks will pop it to complete their 100% combos). The only issue is level 3 X-Factor and Dark Phoenix.
People have been able to define what they do not like. I disagree that they can determine how or to what extent a game is flawed. Compared to what? The epic perfect FG that everyone will play from now til forever that exists in everyones head and has no updates and a 500 character roster?
X-Factor exists SOLELY to kill the other guy faster. How is this better than ultras which improves depth? Also I’d like you to try and come up emperically what MvC3 does better than SF4. The impossibility of this task should prove the point.
Then why didn’t you use U1?
And if the answer is “because U2 stops them from jumping” then you’re saying that the threat of U2 leads to more damage than hitting with U1. Which means you’re ‘using’ U2.
If you body someone so hard they don’t get super, I don’t think they would have stood a chance even with it, especially in ST where a lot of moves are fairly safe, so you can build a lot of meter with relative easy. Looking through matches from EVO this year, I saw one round where a player didn’t get super, and it was almost a perfect.
I feel like that’s true of most comeback mechanics though. At some point, the time for miracles has come and gone, and you are fucked. You can just never get the opportunity to land a lot of ultras, a lot of teams can get killed by welcome setups before they can x-factor (although not in ultimate because of air xf), etc.
Although, in ST super isn’t the turnabout-maker it can be in other games, and I completely forgot about Old-groove. You’ve still got the very high damage, though, so really it’s kind of like having ultra all the time.
I would contend that x-factor, broken as it is, adds depth as well, although in a different way.
thank you for renewing my faith in this discussion
TS with fucking truth bombs.
I love you bro.
No homo.
…slight homo.
Let’s see… what do I hate…
Intentional Unbalance - Character variety breeds unbalanced gameplay, this is true. However, when characters are DESIGNED to be overpowering (or underpowered), it’s nothing but a waste of time, effort and resources not just on the part of the players who adopt characters who weren’t made to run with the upper echelon, but also a waste of time, effort and resources on the part of the employees who spent their blood, sweat and tears building these characters who don’t match up only to have them completely ignored. In a perfect world, every character would at least be viable - creating characters who are intentionally unbalanced runs completely against that.
Either leave out the intentionally OP characters, or leave out all BUT the intentionally OP characters… because in the end, that’s exactly what ends up happening anyway (either the characters are so OP they are banned, or they are legal and thus no one uses anyone but those characters).
Idiotic Button Set-Ups - Does anyone like having to set their buttons up the way MvC3 does it, compared to how 3SOE does it?
Game Changing Paid-DLC - If you wanna make money off of DLC, there’s plenty of ways to do that without making the game a matter of ‘He who has the most money wins’. Costumes, music, vocal tracks, single-player content, extra modes, etc. Personally, I don’t even like Paid-DLC characters. If you released those characters to everybody for free, but only gave them two costume choices and you had to pay a small amount just to get them to the same amount of costume choices as everyone else, that’d be fine.
Lack of Rage-Quit Detection - Is it really that hard to assess each participant’s health and character status upon a rage quit? Check for health: 5%. Check for state: Hit Stun. I THINK IT’S PRETTY SAFE TO ASSUME THIS WAS A RAGE QUIT. Check for health: 50% less than opponent. Check for timer: 2 seconds left. I THINK IT’S PRETTY SAFE TO ASSUME THIS WAS A RAGE QUIT.
Lack of Filters - Why can we get options to filter by region, by rank, by whatever in Marvel - but not by ping? Seriously? And ya know, United States is a pretty big region. Why not ‘United States: South East’ or something?
Bolded is pretty much my assessment of it. I’m sure Ken can do it, and I’d be super shocked if Boss can’t (I’ve seen him do plenty of more difficult shit) but much much more often than not those guys elect to go for a tough reset situation, or an easier ender in general. A lot of times Ken won’t even pick sa2 against Gouki, even my scrubby ass Gouki :x
Because Ultras can only be made available to you at the cost of taking damage (regular or white damage - which you get via Focusing shizz). X-Factor at least doesn’t necessarily require that you take damage.
Ultras don’t improve depth and in many cases they lessen it.
XF has many problems, but in my opinion the absolute biggest issue with it is that being the 1st to get to the last char and XF lvl 3, sometimes doesn’t even things up, but turns the tides completely and gives you the win.
You are one char he is 3 chars.
You activate lvl 3 XF and kill the 1st.
You do a simple mindless 50/50 mixup and kill his incoming 2nd char.
You rinse repeat for the 3rd char and win the match, before he even had a chance to start playing and use his own XF.
THAT’S the most fucked up part- Being outplayed at the start can end up giving you a mindless 25% chance to win the whole match.
(And since raw activation has recovery, being able to activate in the air in U isn’t gonna change this scenario)
X-Factor is ‘not deep’ only when you don’t realize that X-Factor goes hand-in-hand with Snap Backs.
Were it not for X-Factor, you’d actually want to Snap In the ‘weakest link’ of the team and kill them off as soon as possible just to give the ‘strongest link’ less assist options. However, thanks to X-Factor, you have to weight whether you’d rather deal with the ‘strongest link’ with assists, or deal with the ‘strongest link’ without assists but with Lv3 X-Factor. The fact that you actually have to put some thought into it might not prove depth, but where there’s smoke there’s fire.
There’s also the ‘Do I save X-Factor for the end, or is it worth it to blow it early to get rid of his point character and gain momentum?’ thing going on.
Doesnt this only really apply to Bang? And thats sorta his thing, and hes awesome in spite of/because of it.