peanut butter pancakes
Penalties such as the yellow card, ban etc… first and foremost are used as a discouragement to bad play/ players. It is not meant to be thrown around arbitrarily. Penalizing or banning a player is a serious issue and should be considered only by the tournament organizers or whoever is in charge. The problem with creating bans is that it sets a precedent and it also invites internet warriors to scream “injustice” every time they feel someone cheated/ didn’t play fairly. Case in point: this entire thread.
The first question is whether or not ChrisG actually “intentionally underperformed”. This judgement is solely up to the** tournament director**. Its not up to any of us to decide. Whether he did or not is too subjective. Some people say he got bodied, some say he was tired, some say he just gave up, and some say he intentionally “underperformed.” Personally, I’m not going to bother arguing about this point. I didn’t watch the video because I find KOF boring and tedious, and the decision isn’t up to me anyway.
The JWong incident and this incident are two different cases. Jwong is guilty not only of throwing a match, but of colluding (secret agreement) with a friend. His actions (underperforming) would lead to an advantage for Noel Brown. Everyone knows that JWong intentionally threw the match to help his friend. Despite that, the official ruling still states that they did not have clear evidence to implicate JWong of colluding with Noel Brown. But everyone who believes that Jwong threw his match also knows that this was his motive for doing so. There just isn’t enough tangible evidence (eg: texts, recordings) to associate both of them in this “plot”.
Now let’s look at the current issue. Here we have ChrisG, having been beaten badly by Bala once before, and knowing that the same would happen again, choosing to dick around and lose. Most people would say that he just plain old gave up and didn’t give a shit anymore. ChrisG’s loss affects only himself; there are no benefits reaped from his action.
Perhaps Chris G really was “underperforming”. Even then, he is not guilty of collusion with Bala. (And if you wish to say that Bala and ChrisG did indeed meet up and agree to split the pot or whatever, please provide evidence. The onus is on you to prove that such activities actually occurred, not on us to prove the negative.) His lack of effort was due to his apathy towards the KOF competition, not because he wanted to help Bala win or whatever.
You may say that motive doesn’t matter… that the “underperformance” deserves a penalty in its own right. But you have to understand that the reason EVO banned Jwong was because his loss directly benefited another competitor- his friend Noel Brown. This is the message that EVO is trying to send: that they will not stand for collusion and that they will not stand for intentionally throwing the match for some ulterior benefit (friends, split pot, etc…)
If they do ban ChrisG for mere “underperforming” (if it is proved), then this is the message they send: that you will be penalized if you fail to put requisite effort in the game, despite your reasoning (eg: loss of any hope of victory). This is a strong and extremely contentious stance to take. If they do this, then all players who give up and don’t put in effort become eligible for a yellow card. If I join EVO and get matched up against Daigo or someone, and I decide to just give up, play like shit, and lose- does that mean I have to get punished? -_- That is ridiculous and asinine.
*Now, if I was found guilty of colluding with Daigo beforehand and intentionally throwing the match to aid him, that’s a different issue altogether (only an example of course, I would get bodied by Daigo anyway)
You can never force someone to play. Its a game. You can play how you want to, and as long as you’re the only one affected by your choice, no one should be bothered about it. Stream monsters who are getting all butt hurt over ChrisG’s supposed lack of effort should try to see things from his perspective. He’s playing a game he doesn’t care too much about, he knows he’s going to be destroyed by his competitor, and he has no hope of a victory. What would you have him do? Pretend to put in effort and get bodied either way? Forfeit the match and not show up? Geez.
We’re not going to see everyone throwing games because of this petty incident. People will try when they have hope of victory. ChrisG clearly didn’t and that’s why he did what he did.
In conclusion, based on the wording of the rules, ChrisG, if found guilty of “underperforming”, is probably liable for a penalty (due to the vagueness/ broadness of the rules). Actually imposing the penalty on him, however, would be a hypercritical, frivolous and useless decision.
Same bad arguments everyone else has been making, just with more words.
Also I find it silly when people say ‘in conclusion’, as if we couldn’t figure out the final paragraph of your essay was the conclusion.
Your problem is that you are so deluded into thinking your argument makes any sort of sense that you rapidly dismiss anything else. Its always easy to criticize. What exactly is your reasoning/ argument into why you think Chris G deserves a penalty? And why is this argument “bad” hmm?
Let’s not get derailed into my choice of syntax. Whether or not “in conclusion” is necessary is totally unrelated to the discussion.
sorry buddy but you’re the one with the bad arguments.
Do you really think Chris G had a chance at winning???
Nothing is impossible.
Everything is permitted.
Frosties from wendys with chicken nuggets are godlike.
Yea I directly quoted a previous ruling and showed how it directly applied to the situation. So flawed.
Yea, he did. He clearly knows how to play the game. Maybe he could have gotten lucky and mindfucked him. He definitely didn’t have a chance if he didn’t try, though.
“No one” thought PR ROG had a chance with tron against dark phoenix (seriously, not even him), no one thought daigo had a chance to beat justin’s chun with a pixel of health left, etc. Thats how great moments happen man.
Apply this to Chris G, and refute it
but it doesnt apply to the situation, justin was carded for throwing the match so that noel would get evo seed points
chris g threw the match so he would have an excuse when he got bodied by bala
while both actions are reprehensible, only one violates evo rulings
If you’re cherrypicking quotes then yeah it applies. But the context was that the rule was being applied with collusion in mind.
I think that if Chris G would have just went all the way and forfeited, it would be more acceptable, and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But he had to random-select in the grand finals of an EVO qualifier of all places.
To me, it seemed like ChrisG gave up because he felt out classed by Bala based on past encounters with him, as well as the match against him during the winners bracket of Power Up. Whether you respect his decision or not is completely irrelevant. You shouldn’t be punishing players because they lost the will to play a match. A lot of shit happens to the mental state of a player during a tournament and this is one of the results that can happen.
I’m actually in agreement with the OP for the most part, but he’s starting to get irate :\
It does seems like intentional underperformance to me, despite all of the circumstances people have mentioned, which doesn’t sit well with me, and IMO shouldn’t be encouraged because no-one wants to see it. In the interest of continuity I feel that should define whether or not they can separate the collusion part from the underperformance part, and then go from there. If they will seperate them, give Chris the penalty, and if they won’t seperate them as it requires both criteria to be met then let Chris’ choice rock.
However, on a personal level, if it’s fine to do that, would you even care about so much if tournaments if a good proportion of them are filled with matches which don’t really matter after it’s begun. I’ve caring about watching Big Two’s Marvel finals because it’s the same stuff each week with Noel and Chris taking it easy. If that was standard for every tourney, ie. people not playing to their max because they play the other guys all the time, or they just give up and do random shit because they think they can’t win and it’s not worth trying to learn from, it’d be a joke, as well as having huge implications with side bets, prize pools and the like.
Sure, I can’t at this time do better myself (living in another continent and not even playing KOF to any respectable degree doesn’t help), but it’s not conducive to the scene which people have worked hard to imrpove through constantly bettering themselves, and attending or organising so many events for other people to attend etc. People can have free choice for sure, but can you really argue that it’s not the lamest shit ever when stuff like this goes down? As a tournament organiser would you want people who’ve mocked your hard work and efforts to get away with it like it’s not an insult? To me it’s not that big of a deal right now, but it’s not beneficial to the scene in any way whatsoever to see, so I’d rather it be shunned and not accepted as an okay way to conduct yourself. Then again that might only make it worse in tournaments with less status, so who knows? I at least want to compete to the best of my ability in everything I’m entering.
Especially for Chris G, considering when he gets mindfucked, he gets mindfucked hard.
This is a good point. Keep making these and calm down.
I think people are making a huge deal out of nothing. What happened with Justin is not the same as what happened with Chris G.
Yes, based on what I’ve seen from ChrisG in other tournaments he tends to take those defeats very hard, and it affects his performance throughout the tournament.
Who is going to make that distinction? How can you be sure justin didn’t just stop caring about that tourney and lose the will to win?
Except that they can’t/didn’t punish Justin for collusion, because they have no evidence of it. They didn’t see Justin take Noel aside and say ‘hey man, you can have this one’. Thats why they worded it the way they did.
The whole ‘collusion’ thing is extraneous.
I think it would be a catch 22… he got all the way there and then forfeited. Oh here comes the ‘is he scared’— ‘how can you do that in a EVO’ qualifier’ – an the classic ‘he didnt play to split the pot’…etc. etc.
The simple fact is he won up to that point. Learned he couldn’t beat but guy and just hit random select to try to at least but some comp into it. Sometimes some opponents just have your number at that moment. It was the finals… people are complaining as if someone else that DIDNT beat him deserved to be there.
I don’t think a lot of players have been in that situation where your STILL gonna play but know the guy has your number. You want to at least take him down and not get routed… unfortunately it didn’t work. Yeah he smiled an such cause its one of those moments youre playing someone superior to you. Now if his opponent did that I can see the argument but then even in that aspect you would be saying he is GDLK for selecting whatever to beat chris g if he won.
I say drop it. If you didnt make top 3----------------wait this is the new generation… if you didnt make top 8 then what is the complaint? Chris G got his butt rocked no matter what he tried. We all had that in our time of playing. He didnt sandbag or ‘hold that shyt for nationals’ or even not try. Lets just drop it.
How does what you just said not apply to
Did he put in a good-faith effort to win? Nope. Then it applies.
is this the same Sonic hurricane that bitched about eventhubs not Putting a link to they’re website 1 time?