Let’s not forget that Morrigan is the one with a history in the Versus series, seeing as she’s been in it since MvC1.
Heck, wanna bet that if she wasn’t included, people would still be complaining as well as making jokes about Capcom not wanting to give her a new sprite (TvC notwithstanding).
As the old joke about Capcom fans goes you can give them hand jobs by Chun Li and they’d still complain that it wasn’t Sakura.
That’s two different Vergils.
OG Vergil in MVC, the worst thing he did was impale his brother twice and summoned a tower to get to demon world with no fucks given to the human race. DmC Vergil is just some dude that thinks humans are idiots and can’t be left alone to make their own choices and that he and Dante should rule the world.
True but like I mentioned earlier. She had some popularity before her appearance in MVC1, hence why she was the sole Darkstalkers representative. If she didn’t have that initial popularity she probably wouldn’t have been added to MVC1. And yeah her outdated sprite in games like CVS2 was hallarious! as for that joke about Capcom fans, I’d complain that it wasn’t a blowjob. like fuck a handjob I can do that myself lol.
Well actually if you play Vampire Hunter or Savior, she has a win pose in which she smiles, laughs and does this cute happy dance. Which at first I thought was really out of character, but it may be a nod to how she was originally suppose to be the cute character like you mentioned earlier. As for her humor. You know Mad Moxxi from borderlands? Well Morrigan writes her material. Look up her Vampire Savior and UMVC3 win quotes.
Morrigan’s characterization as per the games is that of a somewhat spoiled, irresponsible “party girl” who sneaks out behind her daddy’s back to get into fights (remember, Succubi in Darkstalkers feed on excitement and adrenaline in general). She’s basically a combination of Cody’s boredom with Akuma’s blood knight tendencies combined in a teenaged girl. This only changes after her ending in VSav where the merges back with Lilith and starts taking her role as the future head of the Aensland clan (and possible ruler of Makai) seriously.
Can you define which version of Honda you’re talking about and what gimmicks or shenanigans you’re referring to? If you’re talking about SFIV I half agree with you because I don’t really think they understood how to make Honda in any iteration of that game but there are far more characters with more gimmicky shenanigans than Honda, like any vortex character.
I feel like he’s more honest than most characters in the SFIV series, because his gimmicks are downright bad. FADC hands into oicho throw or ultra 2 is super easy to see and react to and you just need to crouch block and watch for the throw to avoid any real mix up. His overhead is silly slow, however you can cancel it into oicho but that is a super gimmick that will work 1/10 times at best and that’s when in the corner. Honestly his best gimmicky thing is dash up throw after a knockdown from just outside crouch jab or short hands range because people get caught sleeping while blocking.
d3v. Yep all true. And I liked how you summed her up as one part Akuma, and one part Cody in a teenage girl. ( She’s actually over 300 yrs old ). I was just saying how Morrigan does have a sense of humor and a cute playful side. Which like you implied came from her combining with Lilith. Now we all need to get off this Morrigan discussion. We’re kinda dereailing the thread lol.
(So…BB_Hoody not only bumped this year old thread two months ago, but keeps quoting pictures that are right above him, doesn’t realize you can just use the “@” function if you’re directing posts at people without spaces or punctuation in their names, didn’t realize where Mecha-Gief came from and thought that original Vergil was made for the reboot abomination?
Some people…)
That said, I missed this first time around since I rarely come to this sub-forum. Having read through the entire thread and having thought about it, there are actually aren’t many characters I’d say I “hate”. I try to not use the word “hate” causally though, especially for fictional elements or characters. There are certainly a great many characters that I don’t really like fighting or find stupid for some reason, though for the most part, that’s usually only because of things I think are idiotic design choices that aren’t necessarily hardwired to the character in question. As it is, I’m far more inclined to “hate” mechanics in a game, such as X-Factor or Custom Combos, than any character in them.
Similarly, I don’t really have any favorites for pretty much anything, much less fighting game characters, so there goes that opposing category entirely. Closest I could say is to having “favorites” would just be characters I find extremely interesting on a design level, such as Gen and his ability to switch between two “modes” that change his entire moveset, down to his normals. Outside of when I played SFA3, though, I never really end up playing as Gen, partly because I dislike special moves that are just rapidly tapping a button; that and mashing in general always makes me feel like the game is covertly asking you to break your controller.
As such, my complete list is an extremely short list compared to most other people, especially since I’m outright ignoring boss-only characters, who are largely meant to grate on you, like say every basically SNK fighting boss. Well, except for Shion & Magaki of KOF XI. I like both of them for some reason, though I still wish that Shion was actually woman like I thought he was for years. (This isn’t because I got “trapped”–I just dislike his personality being so vain apparently and it would have been a nice to have kick-ass female spear user since Yuki from Last Blade sucks.)
So, when it comes to characters I “hate” in general, there are four: Yun, Akuma, and, if we’re counting “hating” characters for reasons that aren’t necessarily all tied to the fighting games they don’t originate from in the first place, Zero and Wolverine. Kind of funny how all of those characters reside in Capcom games even though until the past three or so years, those are mainly the type of fighting games I played besides Arc Sys’s Guilty Gear: Accent Core with a sporadic smatterings of SNK KOF games.
I’ll explain, though I’ll try to keep it limited to one or two (…or three…or more) paragraphs for each since most of the people who have been around no how goddamn long-winded I can be. Emphasis on “try” (and, thus, implicitly on “fail”):
Yun:
[details=Spoiler]My chiefest dislike of Yun is how he basically always comes with the Custom Combo system attached to him in the form of Genei-Jin. This even though he also always tends to have excellent normals, often good-to-great special moves & other supers and a blasted divekick that often has no enforced minimum height requirement. As such, he’s basically always at least above average ultimately, if not outright top tier due to Genei-Jin putting him over most other characters’ options. That’s why I was less than thrilled when I used to play SF4 that he was getting added to SF4–nothing against Todd Haberkorn; it seems like he’s back in force for USF4 on top of that despite his nerf in between versions…
Hell, to be honest, when I played Third Strike before ultimately deciding I disliked it as I got better at it, Yun was way more annoying to fight in that game in Chun-li ever was just because of how dumb Genei-Jin is. At least you can parry all of Chun-li’s supers and at least she doesn’t basically always have at least half of a super bar immediately after she finishes hitting you with SA II; Genei-Jin and Custom Combos just tell even something as high-reward/low-to-moderate risk as parry to go screw itself. Given that’s what Third Strike is based around (besides whiffing normals for meter) and Genei Jin’s bar is so damn short…
It’s a shame because I sort of want to like him since he has a good enough visual style, even if I like Yang (way) better. Speaking of Yang, I oddly don’t dislike him at all even though he’s quite similar to Yun. Even before The Bosch graced Yang with his vocal presence in SF4, Yang’s always felt like he takes more skill than Yun for whatever reason, probably because it’s way easier to get yourself killed with Mantis Slashes than it is with Yun’s lunge punch that I can’t remember the name of presently. I certainly didn’t have to deal with a lazy army of him when I used to play Third Strike and it’s obvious which character Capcom cares about more since Yang got relegated to an assist-only character in CvS2.[/details]
Akuma:
[details=Spoiler]Much like BurnYourEgo, the majority of my ire with Akuma lies more with his fanboyish fanbase than it does with the character himself, which is a problem exacerbated when most, if not all, of Capcom itself seems to be among them. The problem in question is basically how someone who was a secret boss in ST has slowly become “mandatory” despite being a character who has so much in common with the flagship character(s) of the game that he often ends up somewhat invalidating them. I mean, it “makes” sense that even in-game he’d be a stronger version of Ryu since he started as a boss, they have the same fighting style and Capcom has obviously tried to preserve that in every iteration, but that’s precisely the problem: in (fighting) game design, you shouldn’t decide from the get-go which character is going to be strong overall due to what essentially amounts to favoritism. That happens with more than just Akuma unfortunately of course, such as Kula Diamond and the Sparda Brothers in (U)MvC3, but Akuma is the second biggest offender I can think in a fighting game.
For the record, though, just him being basically guaranteed to be top tier or very near it in almost every iteration of Street Fighter isn’t only issue, since the fans don’t and can’t directly control that unless they’re actually on the design team (or constantly bugging them through Capcom Unity). I’m not even all that annoyed by Vortex Akuma from pre-Ultra SF4 since I could never get that serious about that game as it is; Ibuki was more of a problem on that front for me anyway–damn kunai. Some character designs are just innately strong (or, else, really easy to screw up, i.e. Guile) and I recognize that air diagonal air fireballs will pretty much always be pretty good depending on the angle. I accept that.
It’s just…Capcom is kinda blatant about favoritism because fans think Akuma is the “bestest” to the point where he’s basically become Street Fighter’s “answer” to DBZ even though it never needed one. The DBZ comparison just makes Oni’s idiotic visual design all the more hilarious and sad; oddly, I’m fine with Oni on a playstyle level even if he (still?) kinda sucks.
I mean, did Akuma really need the only non-grab super in Third Strike outside of Gil that can’t be parried? Did he really need a beam-like hurricane kick in MvC3 that basically eats all non-super projectiles even though he has fireballs, (an admittedly low-tier) teleport, air mobility out the ass and all his supers also tell projectiles go to hell? Does he really need to be (playable) in basically every cross-over game with Street Fighter representation when Ryu, who often plays at least somewhat similarly to him, is guaranteed to be in and when there’s usually (quite) limited space for SF representation?
I’ll admit that part of my ire was directed towards him because I was initially rather annoyed that he got into MvC3 over Mega Man, but that’s largely a different issue with Capcom screwing over Mega Man in general, which Akuma had nothing to do with it. Even if it was provable that Akuma had replaced Mega Man, Akuma has basically saved Mega Man from being a largely shitty game that Capcom could easily make good if it cared but it doesn’t, so…
It’s not like I want to dislike Akuma. He’s actually more interesting than Capcom tends to focus on story-wise. It’s just most of his fans make it really easy to dislike, which just makes me feel bad for the relatively few people who like Akuma who aren’t idiots of some kind or automatically think he and, somehow by extension, themselves are utter badasses.
It also doesn’t help that, as usually lenient as I am to voice-acting in any language, his English voice is absurdly terrible to the point of being laughable. Dear gods. People complained about Christian Bale’s jocular, hoarse growling as his Batman voice? He has nothing on the try-hard “demon growl” that the English voice actor is doing as modern Akuma. I’m not even going to blame the voice actor, actually, because I find it likely that he was told to voice act like that for the part and Capcom obviously allowed it to go ahead in multiple games. Ugh. The voice certainly makes me want to die one thousand deaths.[/details]
Zero:
[details=Spoiler]I’ve never really liked Zero. Even going back to MMX, I was always kind “meh” that he died sacrificing himself (needlessly) to save X from Vile (again), even if that sequence is kind of dumb and undermines X’s character despite what EgoRaptor says. I even felt at least a bit bad for him when Iris died in MMX4, as laughably voice acted as “WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOR!!!” and that scene in general is; thank you for redubbing that even if it wasn’t “official”, Mr. X8 voice actor.
It’s just…over the years, it became really blatant how much Keiji Inafune had a hard-on for the guy, to the detriment of every other character, especially poor X, and even to the plot of the series. Yes, I/we get it, Mr. Inafune. Zero is what you wanted X is to originally look like. Why could you have just let it go instead of trying to make Zero both the best Robot Anti-Savior in MMX5 and then the best Robot Savior in the Mega Man Zero where you screw over everyone else, especially X, just for him? Sigh.
Right. We’re talking about fighting games.
When it comes to that, the problem is that this same “this character is so cool; he should be the strongest!” favoritism is even more blatant on Zero than Akuma. Yes, Zero is why I said that Akuma was only the second biggest serial offender because, unlike Akuma, Zero has been top tier in literally every fighting game he’s been in, to the point of often being nigh-untouchable in-game. That being allowable is…bullshit, needless to say, especially since it’s happened at least thrice. Not even The Bosch can make UMvC3 Zero a bearable character to watch, much less “fight” against, since “fighting” him for most, if not all, characters is basically more of an exercise in waiting for the person using him to fuck up. This rather than you actually doing or accomplishing anything since’s he barely one step below Ivan Ooze when he gets going with those well thought out special-canceling buster cancels. Fun.[/details]
Wolverine:
[details=Spoiler]There are three reasons that I “hate” Wolverine, though only one of them is related to actual fighting games. The first and foremost reason that I dislike Wolverine can be summed up in two words: “Wolverine Publicity”. Given that links to TVTropes, I suppose I can explain the issue a bit without forcing people to click it by saying Wolverine is obnoxiously on everything as advertising, even on things he’s not actually in even though there’s way too many things he’s actually in. Obviously, this doesn’t really reflect in any of the games save for MvC2, where he was the only character to have two versions for some reason, which is amusing because MvC2 is basically the only game where’s actually ever bad. (I guess you could count Mega Man as having “two versions” since Roll is basically just an extremely sub-par version of him in basically every way save for that damn bouquet, though at least she’s not a palette swap. Sorry, Zaza.)
As such, much like Akuma, the second reason is how most of his fans act and how he’s been romanticized and pushed subsequently because of it, which is an annoyingly cyclic affair of masturbation and/or fellatio. Despite not being that old to be around when he was first introduced, I remember when Wolverine was this shorty, hirsute Canadian guy instead of someone who, even nowadays, sort of looks like Hugh Jackman even in-comic–not that I bother reading American superhero comicbooks anymor, at least by the Big Two. Similarly, I remember when the Punisher was the premiere Marvel “badass” character, rather than some character that’s everywhere and is written in so many different ways that he doesn’t even really have an actual personality (or even motivation) anymore.
When it comes to fighting games, even though I’ve been incidentally been “hating” on all top tier characters, my problem is less that he’s top tier and more it’s almost impossible to ever get him the fuck off of you al Obviously the vanilla MvC3 version of him is disgusting garbage, the most abusive version of him ever even compared to the XvSF version, and whoever agreed to give Berserker Slash outright invincibility needs to be kicked in the nethers and fired. Yes, “pixie”/rushdown characters should be difficult to get off you, but my issue is how pretty much everything he has tends to be safe save for Tornado Claw and Fatal Claw. Him often having a speed-up, pseudo-Custom Combo mode doesn’t exactly endear him to me either, especially since he so often has that instead of a healing factor in-game despite that being part of what his stupid ass is famous for. How the hell did he only ever end up having a healing super in one fighting game, Children of the Atom, despite being in at least six?
(Wait, did he have one in the original Marvel Super Heroes? I can’t remember. Also, I’m not counting those non-Capcom X-Men fighting games because I basically know nothing about them except that I’ve heard no one plays them since they were apparently full of broken crap and poorly made.)[/details]
On top of all this, Wolverine’s the only character of the four that I’ve never tried to like and I doubt that I ever will. Oh well. Laura | X-23 exists now and, much like Yang compared to Yun, I oddly find her way more interesting and likable of a character despite the obvious similarities between her and her “brother”–no, I’m not talking about Daken.
When it comes to specific iterations of characters, I can’t really think of any other character in anything I’ve played that I outright loathe, at least off the top of my head, except for KOF XI Gato since he was basically as untouchable in the game as Zero is in every game. On top of that, besides Oswald’s Ace doing stupid amounts of damage when you hit with it dead centered (which is actually easy to do), he’s really the only blemish on an otherwise great, underrated game outside of some of the weaker characters needing a buff. (Why must you suck so much, Sho Hayate?)
Eff that noise. A2 CCs were the best.
The Damned. Most of the time I post from a PS3 so the @ function doesn’t always work. And excuse me for not knowing every damn thing when it comes to gaming. However people have informed me of Mecha Giefs and Vergil’s origins so now I know. So get off my back.
As for the characters you dislike. I agree with you on Akuma and the points you made. I dislike him and pretty much any character with “Superman syndrome”. The appeal of SF to me was how the characters are relateble and pretty grounded. A couple of them have abnormal abilities, but for the most part they’re normal humans
Then comes Akuma. At first he was cool. a evil version of Ryu that was slightly stronger. Then comes the Alpha series. Now he’s obliterating islands with a single punch, And can survive at the bottom of the ocean and is so god like he has to hold back against everyone. Then Oni comes along and like you said takes it to DBZ levels. I belive Oni punched someone into the moon right? LOL Akuma has no buisness in SF anymore.
I guess you haven’t seen Ryu bench pressing giant boulders in 3.
d3v. Really? Hmm. Well Ryu is one of the abnormally strong fighters in the series. Like Zangeif who wrestles bears, Dhalsim who can strecth, etc. But their feats while abnormal are nowhere near as absurd as destroying Islands with a punch, or knocking people into the moon. That’s some DBZ shit that has no place in Street Fighter. Capcom got too carried away with Akuma. They need to tone him down.
Akuma being good stems from how many options he has. He was made to get an “oh shit” out of you when you saw him in SF2. Air fireballs? Slow-mo teleport? Raging Demon? He was outstanding in his first iteration, and it showed in how good he was. As annoying as his casual fans are, boss characters in general have that. My biggest gripe with him isn’t what he is (massive box of options and damage), but what he isn’t: The main villain. All this time hyping up… a side character? Really? I know the biggest issue with him is making him the villain to everyone other than Ryu and Ken. But that shouldn’t hold him back: Ogre (his counterpart in SFxT) slaughtered a lot of characters off screen, establishing his power and making everyone want him dead. Why is Akuma, someone who has been a regular since SF2, stuck as a secret boss when he generally doesn’t even need to be unlocked?
Zero also has Akuma’s “always a strong option” syndrome. Furthermore, it is an issue because, unlike Akuma who was built to be good in SF2, Zero is good in faster, crazier games like TvC and MvC3, exactly where Akuma winds up having issues translating his moveset into a threatening character. (See the MvC series, SFxT, and to an extent 3rd Strike)
The only similiarity between Akuma and Ogre is how much they suck at their job…which is pretty much killing people…
Think about it!
Akuma:
Ogre:
Yeah, Tekken and Capcom are ruining their boss characters. IIRC Akuma could kill Gen, he just didn’t because Gen was ill already thus to Akuma, being a dishonorable fight to the death. I’d wager Akuma’s poor defense being the fault of Capcom’s balancing methods. Characters with a wealth of options are usually found in games with a lot of system mechanics to help out(see Guilty Gear) or have great mobility(see King of Fighters).
Love: (SF) Ken, Rolento, Guy, Cody, Dudley, Fuerte, Zangief, Sagat and Sakura. (Tekk) Lei Wulong, Miguel. (MvC) Strider, Hulk, Dormmamu. (Injustice) Batman, Black Adam, Aquaman Doomsday.
Hate: (SF) Seth, Hugo and I don’t hate Cammy but I hate her fanbase. (Tekk) Eddy, Christie, Hwoarang (KOF) Everyone except Chin, Joe and Takuma.
To be fair, I’m a die hard comic fan, so I kinda like every Marvel and Injustice character, just some feel better to play. But seriously, I like to watch KOF but as far as the characters? I think 90% of them are completely poop, personality/aesthetic wise.
Was KOF13 your first (and only) KOF?
Nah, '97 was my first KOF on PS1 and my 2nd fighting game in fact! Enjoyed Chin because all I ever did was watch martial arts films as a kid and Drunken Master was one of my favourites.
97 on PS1 is really not a great place to start. Don’t get me wrong, I love the game for what it brought to the series, but that port was REALLY bad.
