well i think parts of the answer would be to stop giving tax incentives and shelters to the US corporations that outsource their labor, during the last 30 years however we have offered tax breaks for companies to close their operations here to open them elsewhere. literally at every turn we have let ourselves be screwed because we are too busy fighting amongst each other too meek to stand up and say something “crazy” such as increasing price slight or GASP having lower, but more stable, profits.
this is what would naturally happen in an area if the lowest paid workers got as significant a wage increase. All of a sudden the jobs that have been paying 10-14 an hour while overworking and under-compensating their workforces will have to either provide living wages or risk high turnover and all the problems that it leads to.
They aren’t just “bitching to Mcdonalds” they are voicing their complaint very publicly for everyone to hear. Congress is a almost entirely disfunctional mess right now and it’s unlikely for them to do their jobs on anything unless you can convince a majority of the people in the country that you are being wronged. You do that convincing by bringing your grievances forward to both your company and congress/the public.
Do you know how easy it is tro drive a company to the ground? Do you know how hard it is to keep one afloat, when everyone else is trying to gobble your market share? Don’t get me wrong, the bonuses awarded to big biz leaders are genuinely wtf sometimes (like when the company is bleeding money, everyone else gets a pay cut but management gets a raise), but not-disastrous CEOs, let alone brilliant ones, aren’t a dime a dozen, and the risk of hiring an unknown is insane. One wrong decision that’s far-reaching enough and everyone can lose their jobs.
It’s a sign of our times that when something is fucked up (Say, the number of people supporting dependents on McJobs), we try to write laws to make that screwed-up situation the correct one instead of trying to find ways to let people solve it.
Starting a super small company is, in theory, pretty easy. In practice, bureaucracy. In practice, minimum wage laws and unions.
So how 'bout we take an ax to all the stupid bureaucracy and the unions?
Below applies to unions as well. Substitute small business/competitors with people willing to work for lower pay or more flexible terms.
and THIS is the inherent problem. All Nigga be greedy!
Guy flipping burgers - I want more money! I work hard!
Guy managing guy flipping burgers - Fuck he’s making as much as me now? NO! I want more money because I work harder!
Guy in IT/Engineering buying food from manager’s fast food place that has guys flipping burgers - Fuck a manager at a fast food place makes as much as me? NO! I want more money because I work harder and have a better job!
Guy who is CEO of company that runs IT/engineering and has guys in IT/Engineering buying food from manager’s fast food place that has guys flipping burgers - Fuck the reg guys in my company make now as much as I do? NO! I want more money because this is MY company and I have the best job!
First-past-the-post voting is fun.
Intentionally inflationary economy to kill the workers’ ability to save money and slowly gather capital is fun.
Revolving doors, regulatory capture and other corporatist things are fun.
Tilling-based monocrop agriculture killing the land that feeds you slowly and surely is fun.
The war on drugs is fun.
The surveillance state is fun.
Subsidized student loans driving the cost of education to insane heights is fun.
Yes, I was just exaggerating greatly. I was going to add that Robots who are made by the CEO of the company yadda yadda - Humans are flawed and care only for money and greed! KILL ALL HUMANS! but point was made indeed.
Now I have talked with former guys who I worked with at Disney and Universal theme parks and they have said that the higher ups in a perfect world would eliminate the human element if possible for Food/Vending/Merch/Ride Operators so they can keep costs of operation low and profits high as can be but imagine a theme park with no human staff. It’s scary if you realize how much can go wrong. Lawsuits are costly so until then customer service jobs need people.
In the 50’s - 70’s You could start off as a Ride Operator and be happy making a good living wage while your manager while he make a little bit more still is well off. Why does the gap have to be so far now? Not everyone can be a manager or run a company or some will never be able to due to a variety of reasons. Also not everyone wants to be in charge of something so why do those at the bottom have be treated like ants?
Your (rhetorical?) questions being up some good points however, I’m not sure if you’re ultimately for or against fast food employees getting $15/hour in the current economy. In another thread I remember you saying fast food work is for teenagers to buy beer, gas, and condoms so a little clarification please. The massive social and fiscal reform you’re rallying for if it ever happens would do so piecemeal. In the meantime $15/hour minimum wage for unskilled (albeit intense) labor without the other changes you mentioned would just be passing the buck upwards and screwing over those who made much more of an effort and sacrifice specifically to not get screwed over.
I’d be flabbergasted if the strike was successful if only because corporations are ST akuma tier when it comes to protecting their profit margins, most likely this will fail and the strikers will have to go home and be family men. However, at the very least this strike is getting people nation wide to have conversations about the problems you mentioned so that’s a small victory at least.
Good post goody everyone should read if they haven’t done so already :tup:
@raz0r Do you feel you’re getting screwed over with your current work to pay ratio? You’re willingness to work at McD’s on the off chance this strike work kind of exemplifies what Goody was talking about.
@vynce Do you think inflation would retroactively be so cataclysmic if the strike was successful? US inflation rates are already egregiously disproportionate across the board. I don’t agree with $15/hour minimum wage, but I don’t think U.S would turn into Singapore overnight.
@fishjie That was a really interesting article you linked, it makes me at least question my stance on the matter however, outsourcing and especially automation of low wage jobs is a reality not just negligible factors as the article suggests. In addition, my reading and research over the years leads me to see that the whole “if everyone has more money they spend more and we all win!” capitalist mindset while having some merit, is not a universal truism. That mindset works ideally in a vaccum, the cash injections under the Obama administration and the one from Bush on his way out didn’t make people spend more it made them save and cut back on entertainment.
@tweleve, I’m retarded so you mind explaining how @angelpalm already answered goodies questions? They see to not have such easy simple answers to me.
Doesn’t really work, the government already hands out 2 trillion dollars a year in entitlements to the poor and sick. An extra 70 billion isn’t going to do jack.
Even amongst just the US citizens that only comes out to 200 dollars a year. If you believe that 1 in 5 people are struggling with hunger, then that makes it 1000 dollars per hungry person per year. How much food could someone get for only 1000 dollars for the whole year?
No a high calorie diet with a sedative lifestyle is why more and more people are overweight. Eating healthier is only part of the solution. They need to move, as in move their bodies. That’s what we’re designed to do. But as technology advances the more sedative we get. However those are signs of a high level society. I’d rather take technology and be overweight compared to no technology and starving.
@Orochizoolander I think the fast food employees getting their way would have an impact on the economy, but not the same impact cranking up minimum wage would.
Moreso, the wage increase would affect the fast food industry. If I have to pay UNO’s/Chili’s prices for McDonald’s food…I won’t. And that’s what you’d see. I think the implications of that are self-explanatory.
We also get a range of benefits that Americans do not.
The primary thing being the absolutely astronomical, almost comically high, costs of healthcare in America.
Also, Australian population is less than some states have. And thanks to our voting system, we mostly keep the crazies out of politics, which doesn’t happen in the U.S.
Gee where could this magical amount of money come from so that you don’t have to spend an extra nickel to throw a bunch of saturated fat into your throat? Hrm, maybe from all the shit advertising they won’t have to rely on because paying people more will have them being held responsible for delivering a quality product?
Oh my bad we don’t want that, we want this job to be shit and pay shit in order to teach all the young people that are supposed to be working here as a stepping stone to becoming future millionares the value menu of a hard days work.
No, the problem is other factors haven’t remained stagnant, the cost of materials isn’t the same as it was 15 years ago, nor the transportation cost. Are they getting jammed up to keep cost within reason - yes, and I don’t think there is an issue from people with them getting more money, the problem comes from doubling that money. I’ve worked various types of jobs, warehouse, big box, web development, help desk, personal trainer, construction, engineering, and management - and in NONE of those have I seen someone’s income DOUBLE overnight (especially without a role change)…no matter the situation. So looking at their income DOUBLING, the cost of their product being tide to the cost of labor (like most things really), and we’ll end up in a situation where the price of their food would go up (like it already has since the oil prices raised up), and the chain reaction would result in ‘unprofitable locations’ - that would get shut down - and ultimately those people would be out of work.
No one is ‘butthurt’ about making less money than FF employees. But to put a face on it, if there is a job that requires little to no education, where performance metrics are ‘meh’, the pay is equal to mine, and unlike my 40h job that is actually 50h - I get paid for every hour I work, I get OT, and I don’t take any of the stress home? Shit, it just makes my job sound dumb no matter how necessary it is. It’s not a stretch…same money for less work…sounds like a win to me. *No that doesn’t actually apply to me - but that’s the logic pathway…
People take shots at the rich ALL THE TIME. Your comment about the rich isn’t the first time or even the fifth time it’s been mentioned within two pages of the thread. But let’s be honest here, if the roles were reversed, it would be no different. You don’t get rich by giving away money. You hold on to it, tightly, and spend it miserly. Something that “I’ve” noticed in the business field over the past decade that gets lost on most people who bitch about the rich - they don’t realize what the revenue streams are. Redbox isn’t a standalone business, its owned by a certain burger flipping clown (that also owns Chipotle). There is a reason they popped up at McDs across the nation first. Notice how McD’s rarely open in ‘already successful areas’? It’s because they locate to a place when the value of the land is low, and buy up the land around the McDs and rent/sell it to others…that’s right McDs is ALSO into real estate. Rich get rich because they think on how to monetize as many revenue streams as they can get their grubby hands on. The low wages? Please…that’s just to keep the cost of the food low…very little of that trickles ‘upstream’ to buy everyone new cars.
Again, you’re underselling the financial request. If we are just talking a ‘bump’ in the minimum wage - you are spot on. But we aren’t talking about a bump. We are talking doubling along with unionization, which leads to MORE cost increase - with often shittier performance. I’m currently working in management in electrical construction, I did a bunch of work in DC, I’ve seen what the base pay rate on most of our jobs are for experienced Electricians, apprentices, etc. However, due to the strength of unions, the gov’t has to RFP jobs @ Davis-Bacon rates - often valued at twice the cost per hour of private companies such as the one I work for. To paint a ‘broad’ picture - the cost to build a building is roughly 10-15% material, 10-15% mangement/paper-work/safety/testing/etc, profit overs between 6-15% (usually 8-10% though), leaving the remaining roughly 60-70% of the cost to build something as LABOR. So if the gov’t is forced to pay TWICE the cost of labor, then a job that is worth maybe 3 mill on the street is now 5 mill. A new BRAC building that has a value of 50 million may actually cost the gov’t 90 mill. Now where does the gov’t get that money from? TAXES! So when certain things like education don’t have the funding they need - and people look at the ballooned defense budget - they aren’t seeing how much the unions and the absorbently high pay are actually the ones killing us. There is a perceived value to the dollar and things like this can really ‘fuck it up’.
I agree - as someone who dealt with a single income for a bit (until God helped us out recently) that middle class jobs are getting squeezed right now…the middle class in general is getting fucked royally right now. But how did the middle class get to the middle class in the first place? We weren’t just given money. We worked at Checkers and 5 Guys and the such, but we picked ourselves up with a plan to get to where we are. I came from middle class so I was fortunate to have a blueprint and a cushion in case things didn’t work out, but I still took the steps…I was getting ready to drop out of college my last year to pursue music, but I stuck with it - and now I have a solid paying job, and have had one since I graduated. So how did I survive all the cut backs? I made myself useful. My point being - it doesn’t matter your situation, and no everyone won’t be middle class, but if you want to get somewhere, you need a map. If you ‘settle’ for your situation, that’s where you’ll at best stay.
Not true. As someone who used to frequent Sheetz, people are quite adept to the concept and tech now a days - especialy wit hthe prevalent nature of smart-phones. 5 years ago I’m with you, but people have smartened up a bit. There would be initial growing pains, but ultimately, I’m surprised this hasn’t already happend in more places, just build a touch screen credit taking kiosk, where you can pick your options rubs chin with money making idea…
It’s a lost generation. We’ve switched to an information driven economy. There should be a STRONG push in education to keep up with other markets, but the baby boomers and those a decade or two younger than them are going to feel the brunt of the transference.
so downsizing, migrant workers, computers, and outsourcing are all figments of my imagination right? we went from materials to fuel cost lol. fuck outta here.
It’s more that other professions don’t earn 4 - 5x as much as lowest income earners. People on welfare here have a higher standard of living than some of the people working minimum wage in the United States.
They definitely need to increase it, I can’t see it tripling overnight though. As for where the money is supposed to come from, well corporate salaries taking a hit would be a start.
