Fast Food Strike in 50 Cities

General Discussion
201

I’m not a socialist, I believe you should be able to make money.

It’s not about making money, it’s about profiteering off of the misfortune of those that happen to be working below you .

I’m not arguing all CEOs should earn modest wages, only that the salaries they earn are completely inappropriate given how they’re made, off the backs of countless people slaving away under them.

It’s not about an “equal,” distribution of wealth, the person at the top should be earning money, that’s the incentive to work harder, to get there, it’s just about distributing the profit in a manner that is more fair for the people that helped make it. If that means CEOs take cuts to keep margins up and drawing investment for the sake of paying those under them more, I’m fine with that.

202

What is the bare minimum of cost of living in your area.

203

Which is ironically the mentality at the heart of every cruelty and tragedy inflicted on people. It’s also the mentality that many people will adopt when they advocate for anything that has zero benefit to them at the moment. They see themselves one day being on top and able to get all the parks and call all the shots, and ultimately getting to screw people like they themselves were screwed.

TL, DR: One of the reasons things keep plummeting is because most Americans see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.(not the original quote but I felt a modification was accurate)

204

A Big Mac costs like $3.95 or something outside of a meal here in Australia.

205

I changed my mind. You’ve convinced me with your compelling argument.

206

You should be allowed to get rich, earning wealth, and the rewards of wealth are something people that enjoy success should look forward to. It’s the reason people innovate, it’s the reason people take risks on unproven ideas, because it might pay off.

There is nothing wrong with that. The issue is when people are making money, and insist on making more money, in excess of their worth at the cost of others. There is an immoral exploitation of those at the bottom by those at the top. Those at the top should be allowed to get rich but perhaps not as quickly, or not as much as they are when it’s at the expense of basic welfare.

Basically, you paid for most of the pie, others contributed a small amount. Because your contribution individually is worth of the most, you deserve the largest slice, but the slice these people are taking is in excess of that to the point that those small contributions are being ignored entirely. They’re getting cut out of the pie, even though their work helped provide it.

207

I read somewhere that in NYC, fast food employees are listed as the lowest of the low. Every other form of employment is above that. The cold hard truth, sadly, is that people do have to rely on fast food jobs as their main means of employment. And constantly paying them piss poor wages while spending millions on advertising, makes no sense.

So corporate McDonalds/Wendy’s/etc will get less of a franchise fee. The actual individual franchise owners would still make the same, the employees would make more, it would just be the corporate fucks getting less.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

208

Thank you, friend. :slight_smile: These words made my day. I’ll never pass up an opportunity to move higher in my trade.

209

The best thing is to act locally, yes, but also to learn to garden. Growing your own food is one of the best things you can be doing. Doing things smartly, even a low budget can turn into a pretty humane existence. But American suburbia are purpose-built to suck the life out of you, no way around it.

210

That’s quaint, but what if I don’t want to play that game to begin with? Say I have a relatively egalitarian society(that does not necessitate command collectivism btw). We’re out in a forest or some other land somewhere, we grow all our own food, we do our own labors(without having a wage system), etc. On what grounds should you be allowed to come in and say you “own” our area, and now we must work for a wage and prop you up so you can enjoy “your” success?

Also, an aside to the whole thread. it’s cute to see the complete faith in merit being rewarded shown by many people here. That whole pull yourself up by your boostraps and if you work hard other companies will compete against the one you’re working for, and snatch you up by lure of a higher wage. That’s assuming that corporations in a field don’t collude together to pay a certain low price for a service, so that you don’t actually end up being paid what your labor might actually be worth(which is already a nebulous concept to begin with). Not saying that happens everywhere(and many times high achievers do get rewarded), but it is certainly in the realm of possibility. That whole idea of competition leading to better wages for employees, lower prices for consumers and so on and so forth is just dandy, if it actually was practice(instead of the more monopolistic collusion/collectivism+consolidation that seems to be par for the course in a lot of areas).

211

If you own your own land, I don’t give two fucks what you do with it.

I’m working a decent job, making a decent income, I work hard in the hope I might eventually move up and take my bosses job. It would mean more work, but more money, that money would give me added opportunities. It makes it easier to give a shit about work and it’s a goal that fits within the bounds of capitalism.

If your goals are completely different, I personally have no issue with that, if you want to live off the land, live off your own back, that’s fine. If you have your own land go for it, if you’re on someone else’s land, they worked hard to obtain that, and the agreement between the government and the people exists so that they represent them in order to protect those rights. Without that protection you get anarchy, peace through superior firepower, for some that would be desirable, but it’s a different world to the one we live in. You could try Africa?

212

Not saying you’re wrong, and you certainly have an admirable mentality to actually desire your merits to be a factor(instead of your birth). I’m just saying that I think there are other ways besides capitalism(not necessarily socialism) that could work.

And actually, governmentlessness does not mean no holds barred. Humans lived for over 190,000 years without the State, and there are still numerous hunter gatherer tribes that live without the state and don’t disembowel their selves. Their main sources of violence are vigilante justice(over perceived slights, jealousy regarding women, etc.). Though there are certain groups that certainly break this mold

edit: Though curiously you mention “if you’re on someone else’s land, they worked hard to obtain that”, along with “and the agreement between the government and the people exists so that they represent them in order to protect their rights”, when it was a government that stole the lands that the indigenous people here worked on so other people could benefit and pass it on to their children. So in effect the government was the one pursuing “peace through superior firepower”.

edit2: Also consider the case of Eustace Conway, who basically did what you said he needed to do, “owns”(lol, I suggest you look up what “Eminent Domain” is) his land, does not bother anyone else yet is still getting fucked with

edit3: Oops I forgot your “Go to Africa” quip. Which is hilarious when you consider that many of the widespread problems of Africa go back to States(through the use of “peace through superior firepower”) forcing people of different ethno-cultural ties into one mass under one system backed by force. And no I’m not just talking about colonialism, I’m going all the way back to Egypt/Songhai/Great Zimbabwe/and every other Kingdom/proto-state that forced people to live how it wanted them to.

213

I’ve heard the same argument before, post - apocalyptic fiction has romanticized it for some.

The reason the government holds order in modern society isn’t much different of a hunter gatherer society, it’s just on a far larger scale. It’s survival of the strongest, the government is stronger than you. The alpha male in the tribe calls the shots.

If you break the rules, the cops arrest you. If you harm the tribe, they eject you and you starve or you’re killed.

There is always power in any society and there is society because we’re not solitary creatures.

If your dream is truly to eject yourself from the bounds of capitalism you can probably manage it. There are hippie communes and isolated communities in the world. There was a band I used to listen to called Wolves In The Throne Room who were American and live in one of those hippie eco - communes.

214

  1. hunter gatherer bands do not have alpha males calling the shots. Reason why? The others in the band will come together and kill him. They have distributed leadership, not domineering leadership. Only in special hunter gatherer tribes that are somehow able to mimick kingdoms(due to abundance in the environment or taming of animals such as horses) do you get those hard handed authoritarian methods.

  2. Government is not the same as a hunter gatherer society. In HG society everyone bands their force together to enforce the group norms. In the government, one entity is able to use violence legitimately over everyone else, and can’t have violence used against it without punishment. The cops/military/politicians are all agents of the government even though they come from the community, and have special rules protecting them that no one else has.

Power yes, rigid hierarchy no.(this is not to say there isn’t some hierarchy in HG groups, though their hierarchies aren’t rigid and nearly of them are based on merit and expertise, not birth circumstances). In many HG societies you are not barred from learning a skillset or pursuing an activity because of you not being in the proper birth/sex/wealth caste.(though HG oftentimes do have divisions of labor that come about it’s not the same thing).

edit: fortunately it’s still possible to have some sense of a life outside the state’s reach, but is quickly becoming impossible. if the NSA revelations has taught us anything, it is that the governments of the world can and will stick their noses anywhere they can, and will impose their will on anyone they can, even/especially those who have opted not to play ball.

edit3: And this may come off a little snide, but you’ll have to forgive me for taking the view as government as some all around peaceful unifier with a grain of salt. I don’t think any HG band is capable of conducting world scale war, drone strikes, biochemical war, or dropping nuclear bombs. At best a HG band is capable of a skrimish and some killings with another band, though they are also just as capable of reaching a truce and economic/resource partnership with that band.

*disclaimer: this is not to say HGs are perfect, they’re human so obviously they have some undesirable aspects, but they just as well have practices that might be worth considering.

215

Has this turned into an “I hate capitalism and this is why” thread yet?

216

It has been one from the beginning.

217

It works better in other nations that are not so paranoid about socialism where the rich spew a mantra of god given entitlement to protect their copious wealth from any kind of moral distribution.

218

Meh full disclosure, I despise Command Capitalism just like I despise Command Communism. Full supporter of markets though. :slight_smile:

219

Name twenty.

220

Finland. Oh, wait, public sector 56% of GDP, state going ever deeper into debt, unemployment rising while baby boomer equivalent generation is set to retire and blow up the pyramid scheme pension system. Oh, and all the damned bailouts.

80% tax rate for yours truly and friends in the future, I guess?
Did I tell you I freaking love politics and feeling entitled to others’ stuff?