Everyone thinks charge buffering is charge partitioning.
Charge buffering is as follows:
you hold back for the alotted time.
you press forward, then very quickly press back again + punch. You do it fast enough for the ‘forward’ and punch to make a sonic boom come out, but you’re already starting to charge the next one.
I see this recommendation all the time, but I’m not sure if I understand all of the reasoning and system mechanics that go behind it. The way I see things, the following two methods should give you the same amount of charge time:
(charge) b, f, immediate b+p and hold the (charge) b for next … as was in your post
(charge) b, f+p, immediate (charge) b again for next
What I mean is, in the two methods above the stick motions are identical, and all you’re changing is when you hit punch. In the first method, I think any couple of frames you’re holding back before punch registers in the second back of the b, f, b+p sequence will contribute to the next boom’s charge. The current sonic boom only uses up charge from the first back charge. Note: if the current sonic boom does in fact waste the charge from the second back charge, method 1 just really doesn’t make sense to me…? Let’s say you hit the b+p 2 frames after the f every time. Then won’t you just have the same amount of charge time as for the second method given identical stick (not button) motions? In fact, isn’t the second method better because you’re getting each sonic boom 2 frames earlier than the first method?
If everything works as I’m describing, I’d imagine there would still be a use for the first method, using the b, f, b+p in the situation where you want 2 sonic booms in a row faster than normal. That is, do a (charge) b, f, b+p (charge again), f+p so you’re delaying the 1st boom slightly to make the interval between 1st and 2nd smaller. Note you don’t get the 2nd any faster than if you did charge) b, f+p, b (charge again), f+p, just the above may be better for certain boom lockdown situations.
Please explain where my understanding is off because this has been puzzling me.
Ah yes. I didn’t even think the original poster might be thinking of charge buffering, which does exist in ST mechanics. I’ll explain charge partitioning for anyone who is confused:
Charge partitioning, which does not exist in ST mechanics but does in 3rd strike, is breaking up a charge into more than one parts. For example, holding a back direction, then releasing back and doing something else, then holding back again and doing the charge move with the SUM of the time of the two back charges.
Regarding Charge buffering, I think it is not that great in ST. Why? Because a dirty little secret of ST is that charge times are random. It is always better to hold a charge a little longer than necessary because if you throw out the sonic boom on the first possible frame it COULD come out, it might not actually come out due to random charge times.
That being said, try to learn how to buffer charges and if you can do it reliably (as in close to 100%), incorporate it into your game. That extra frame or two might save you one day, or it might get stolen away by random charge times. However, if you can’t execute the charge buffering close to 100%, its not worth the reward for the risk it would put you in.
Yes it is, charge buffering is vital and the charge time randomness vary by one fucking frame. One, 1/60th of a second, you coun’t tell the difference if you tried.
Everyone can charge buffer, but proper charge buffering takes mastery. It’s not just hitting b, f, b (should be DB anyways to charge for next flashkick usually), it’s going trough forward as little as possible to maximise your charging time and going quickly to db. Not something you master in a day. I’m not an expert so i fuck up sometimes but hey, i fuck up the occasional dragon punch too, it happens. If you’re not sure do jab SB, at worst you’ll whiff a jab.
Overall, i don’t think i need to explain the benefits of a constant barrage of sonicbooms, as well as being able to keep up in the fireball exchange with the likes of ryu for a long time. If i wasn’t that good, all the good guile players wouldn’t be doing it.
The dude is asking about how muteki throws booms so fast, obviously he’s talking about this and not 3S.
Funny story, I read Mechanica’s post about charge buffering and I got all excited, so I thought I’d give it a try. I turned on my 360, got to training mode and started trying it a couple times, then I realized, this is what I’ve being doing all along! I’m a charge buffer and I didn’t even… um, know it.
This is from the street fighter wiki here on SRK: “Unfortunately, in ST there is a fair amount of randomness. Known randomness includes: The charge times for special/super moves (Can vary up to 3 frames)”
What is important is spending the LEAST amount of time in the forward stick position as possible. Use a little common sense though…if you hit the button as soon as the stick goes to forward, the sonic boom comes out FASTER than if you go back and then hit the punch button. So if you want the sonic boom you are throwing to come out faster, you don’t charge buffer, you hit punch as soon as your stick hits forward.
Charge buffering doesn’t give you any extra charge time. As soon as your stick leaves the back position you are no longer charging. As soon as your stick goes to forward and then to back, you are charging again.
The only thing charge buffering does in ST is make it so you can throw two consecutive booms slightly closer together than if you weren’t using charge buffering, but even then your second boom shouldn’t be buffered otherwise what is the point? Any third boom though is no quicker than if you were never using charge buffering at all.
Not a very important skill to learn in ST. Focus on going back to charge as quickly as possible instead.
do any of u guys know how guiles standing mp works? im trying to get the anti air version to come out more consistently, but it seems the two different standing mp comes out randomly. im use to cvs2 anti air version, but in sthd, it looks like the timing has changed on when it will come out. any tips?
I’m not going to bother writing a long response on why you’re wrong, i’ll just say this:
Newbies, don’t listen to this guy. It’s possible to use charge buffering even after a second or a third SB. And what you do after a boom is worth sacrificing a few frames of speed. SB is not a poke.
Am i really explaining charge buffering in ST to a SRK regular? Fuck. Not only for guile but dictator and boxer too. And chun can sit on fireballs and build meter faster with chrge buffering.
Also from NKI website :
“ST charge times are not 100% set, which is why the “success rate” is listed for each move. For example, with Honda’s Headbutt, about half the time you can get it with a 54-frame charge, but the other half of the time it requires a 55-frame charge. If you simply charge for one frame long than what is listed here, you will get the move pretty much every time. However, it is also possible to get the move by charging for one frame less than what is listed here.”
So yeah it varies by 2 frames, not exactly a huge gap.
Last post on the subject.
You are 100% wrong that Chun can build meter faster with charge buffering. No one can build meter faster with charge buffering in ST. Ask some people who have real knowledge of ST mechanics and they will back me up. Heck get Sabre in here.
If I’m wrong I’ll man up and eat my words.
Pumping out fireballs at a faster rate=faster meter building, in the matchups where she needs it. That’s what i mean.
I have a question.
Im still getting used to some matchups so maybe this ued to be the case on ST as well, so mind me if this is an obvious answer.
So here’s the thing, I know the matchup against T Hawk and Gief is in guile’s favor.
Of course, its not BnB, you have to learn the zoning, but I was thinking, what happens when you do guess wrong?
Here’s a scenario.
Lets say, gief knocks you down, and as wakeup he makes a meaty low short.
In this case with with both t hawk and gief, is a 50/50 cause you have a flash kic charged so you can go from either going for or no, but what happens if you dont have it charged.
Here’s another scenario.
Gief guesses right and jumps your boom, now, at this point you might have time to block but not necessarily the distance to do a low fierce.
So, you block the jump in roundhouse.
At this point, you have no charge, if you crouch you get hit. he goes for a throw a low jabs to low roundhouse. If you do block you still have no charge, so for me this seems like a completly Unblockeable situation.
Its not like ryu where you can uppercut anytime so gief or hawk have to guess.
against guile this kinda set up (when they’re coming from the air), if you get poked it feels like an innevitable 360.
Am I missing something. Am I 100% dead if I get knocked down???
Well, unless I’m wrong, if your blocking you are charging, and it only takes like a second. If you get knocked down you should immediately begin charging down, almost as a reflex. You can let the charge go if they don’t advance or you want to attempt to throw out of wake up, but you should be charging as a reflex on knockdown just so its an option. The first scenario should never happen, but thats a personal preference.
I dont think you understood my question
You have no reason not to have flashkick charged, but it case it happens, you can either mash throw and hope he’s close enought to get counerthrown (won’t happen much, it’s more of a desperate move) or jump out and hope he fucks up his tick timing (won’t happen against a good gief).
If you block a gief jump in from the right distance there’s nothing you can do but get SPD. Again you can jump out and pray he fucks up. That’s why you should strongly discourage gief from jumping. Guile can zone him so well that in the case he gets in he kinda deserves to win. As i posted earlier, i usually do a back sobat when gief jumps my sonic boom. It will most often trade and get you out of trouble. It’s much better to do a proper antiair tho, that’s just what i do cause guile antiair normals are hella situational.
Oh yeah I understand I shouldnt let him get in
my question was only if he does get in the SPD is totally unblockeable (unlike playing against say sagat where he would have to guess).
Thanks for the answer
I noticed that some top Guile players throw out rapid jabs before SBs. Is this just to keep spacing while charging or is there another reason?
1.) your opponent has to react to sonic booms vs react to movement
2.) it helps you bait them into jumping so you can flash kick them,
3.) they can’t move backwards without jumping back or doing an attack that moves then back,
4.) Guile’s jab is good and it stops a ton of moves.
I know it can stop honda’s super, but can it stop blanka’s?
Discovered a cool, little combo for you guys:
On characters that you can land cr. MP (x2), you can cross-up LK -> cr. MP (x2) -> super. It was sort of tricky for me to land, but it’s sort of a cool way to get really big damage off of his normally not-too-damaging super. :wgrin:
Also, yes, Coth_X – Guile’s AND Dictator’s standing jabs are pretty good at stopping Blanka Balls. It fails against Blanka Blue Balls, though…