DJ, try our method and you will notice its FASTER and BETTER, if you aren’t completely satisfied, you’ll get your money back GUARANTEED!
@phoenix, akuma’s teleport was made vulnerable in HDR, at the head area.
well how bout that!! AND we get a normal move that breaks it consistently every time!! SCORE!!
Alright now back to strats, how do you beat those tick throwing chun li breezies. I do not how to zone one out or even fight back once she gets in. Its like tick throw, chun runs away, fireball war, chun jumps over sonic boom, guile blocks crossup or jump in, tick punch into throw. That crossup is especially dangerous because block loses flash kick charge because he has to stand up to block it… HELP?:sad:
Sweet… a specific question. I LOVE those!!
Unfortunately that’s a play style of a more educated Chun Li than what I was posting about so you probably can’t MK walk, wash rinse, repeat here. But you’re in luck because I know this play style. One of my favorite MOST AWESOME moves that Guile can do is what I call the “Do Nothing” attack!! This is where you start a pattern of doing something, then after about the third repetition, you hesitate and do absolutely nothing just to see what your opponent does. If shes jumping over your booms to land her bullshit wackness on you, then stop throwing booms, and hesitate. If she jumps, attempt to MK walk her. Or better yet, Flash Kick her in the babymaker (any other AA normal from Guile will likely lose). Or almost as good, hopkick away as soon as possible. You’ll likely trade hits with this, but you deal some damage and the pattern is broken. Whatever the case, her jump is her weakness here.
If she doesn’t jump, then the pattern just ends and you can fight normally.
If this were 2 years ago I would have told you to just take whatever damage she deals when she jumps in to preserve a Flash Kick charge, but that doesn’t work against Chun Li that well, and I stopped advocating “Sacrifice Play” once I found out about reversals and started studying Guile’s normals more. It’s still an option if you like that sort of thing though.
For future reference all pattern-based play styles can be overcome using either reversals or the Do Nothing attack because patterns in general are pretty scrubbish. They make your opponent 100% predictable. Don’t be intimidated by them, be they throw/hold loops, or some other more elaborate, less dangerous form. If you don’t get the reversal the first time, maybe you’ll get it the second or third time. Just hope our opponent doesn’t perform his own version of the Do Nothing attack when you finally do get your reversal in 
, though at least if you’re still alive by then the loop is broken.
Now the big picture here is that if you’re letting Chun Li do this to you, you’re not playing a good enough distance game. She can attack you all day but you can’t touch her because you’re in her zone when she should be in yours. Playing distance with Chun Li is essential. I don’t necessarily mean you should keep her at any specific distance; I’m referring to always knowing where she’ll end up on screen if she does a certain move. Your goal is to stay around 1.5 character lengths away from her no matter what she does, so that 93% of what she does whiffs, and what doesn’t whiff is easily countered. You can easily see how the tables turn if you adopt this mindset against Chun Li as you begin to pummel her till the cows come home, while barely being touched. She can’t even throw you from this distance (unless perhaps on counter).
If you have trouble estimating, then at the very least try not to be anywhere where she can jump at you and touch you, hit or block. This should be easy with your knee bash, and you can initiate that before she gets to you even after a sonic boom.
I think the worst place on the stage for Chun Li against Guile is in the corner. You can pretty much have your way with her in the corner, and the reason is that you basically lock down her ability to jump. Even if she somehow throws you in the corner, which should be difficult for her if you’re 1.5 character lengths away like you should be, you can reversal Flash Kick her before she recovers, and continue this cat and mouse game of foreplay until you dominate. Guile’s neutral j.FP will stop most of her rebuttal moves when she’s in the corner. I’m pretty sure I’ve stopped her upkicks with it a couple times even.
I’ll also add that Chun Li players tend to fall in love with her crouching FK, and this loses cleanly to Guile’s hopkicks. That c.FK is one of those moves that Chun Li players have ingrained in their play style to where they do it on reaction and use it to start all kinds of silly annoying shit. Beating it will force them to play slightly differently against you which, at least initially, will get you a few more wins and some props from intermediate-level players. Good luck.
yeah, what blue phoenix said…you want to get chun-li in the corner, dont get into a prelonged fire bal fight with her cos she will jump and with her speed she will hit you. To start of the round, use a sonic boom…if she fireballs then immediatly backfist her, if she jumps, walk forward so she jumps over you and back drop her. Also guile can beat chun-li in the air with jumping medium kick, but you have to be the one that jumps first, then when you have her in the corner, mix up booms followed by medium kick, sobat kick, over head, throws or just wait for the reversal and punish.
also, if you having trouble with chun li…just watch this video…standing medium punch is your best friend.
[media=youtube]lcsopBergT8&feature=related[/media]
Yeah that video is an excellent example of what I meant when I said play a good distance game. Chun Li lost so badly because all her moves whiffed and she couldn’t do anything. It really makes Chun Li matches far less lob-sided for Guile. I do, however think it’s more effective for Guile to stay on the ground unless he’s really sure of himself. Chun Li’s air game is one of her most annoying strengths and it may be a little too risky even with the j.FK to try and meet her in the air. Diago must feel the same way as he only jumped once during that whole match.
You know you’re on your way to becoming a great Guile player when you start receiving hate messages from noobs about how you don’t play fair because nothing they do works. I get those on the regular and they’re always amusing!
The charts look different because of the punches being pressed at different times. But they both, indeed, press the same directions at the same time from beginning to end, all the way through, without exception. Since they both press back at the same time every single time, how can your method allow you to charge faster? It can’t. Because you’re not pressing back before I am! I can’t stress that enough. It’s the whole basis of my argument.
@ Coth: I tried this method a year back, it’s not faster and not as effective as the normal way, hence why I bothered opening this can of worms in the first place. I don’t post much, but I felt strongly enough about this issue to reply. I said what I wanted to say.
@ Gouki77: I echo blitzfu’s sentiments. 
Ok, about precharging. I am not an expert Guile player by any means, but let’s take a look at what the two methods would look like, on a frame level.
With the “precharging” method, assuming a charge time of 54 frames, it would look something like this:
F1 : :l:
F55 : :r:
F57 : :l:
F59 : :lp: (boom), loop to F1 or F3?
Now here’s the part I’m not sure about. Do frames F57 and F58 count towards charge for the next sonic boom? Or does charging only happen at F59, once the first boom is thrown? If charging only starts at F59, then clearly it’s not better than the regular method, which would look like:
F1 : :l:
F55 : :r:
F56 : :lp: (boom)
F57 loop to F1: :l:
assuming that both players can snap back the joystick in 2F, and that the precharger throws his boom 2F after snapping back to :l:. Otherwise said, if charge only starts once a boom is thrown, precharger will throw a boom every 59F, while the regular method user will throw one every 57F, and the regular method user will win the boom war.
However, if the precharger’s F57 and F58 do count towards charge for the next boom, then in steady state, the precharger also throws a boom every 57F, just like the regular method user. In that case, the boom war is a stalemate, but the regular method user has thrown his first boom a bit earlier, so he has a slight advantage.
Either way, I can’t see how the precharger would have any actual advantage.
Have I overlooked any facts?
If you’re doing the Sonic Boom at the beginning of something else, and you can start recharging more quickly, you could gain a marginal advantage by carrying more charge into the sonic boom. The BfB+Punch motion may put the punch later in the input window for the sonic boom so that that happens. Ergomechanically, it’s also probably faster to do BfB than B(f+p)B since there’s more coordination slack.
Stalemate with the assumption that the player using the regular method can snap back to the charge position on the exact frame the sonic boom comes out. Difficult to do since most players
a)do not know the first frame sonic boom comes out or when before or after the sonic boom does charging actually count.
b)do not have the hand speed to snap back into charge position in 2f consecutively.
The precharging method is better for fireball wars that require you to do both of these things. Otherwise do them regularly to get them charge moves out quickly. Also prechargers frame 57-58 do count towards the next one and this is why it is called precharging. It allows charging on the very 1st frame available.
From what I understand, in ST there is no charge buffering and you cannot pre-charge - i.e., in Thelo’s example, F57 and F58 would not count toward charge for the next boom.
But, I don’t think it matters. I think the whole idea of “pre-charging” is actually just a popular misunderstanding of an explanation of an execution technique. Nobody actually waits for their stick to return to back before pressing the button. Rather, the idea is simply to return the stick to back as soon as possible rather than waiting to press punch first or for the boom to come out.
It is not very humanly possible to time any single motion to 1 frame. There probably aren’t very many people who can press LP on F56 and then return to back on F57 or F58. There’s a reason kara-cancels, negative edge, pianoing, double-tapping, and other similar techniques exist - it’s in order to turn the 1-frame window for a button press into a 3-6 frame window instead. All of these techniques also rely on the existence of the input buffer.
You can’t double-tap or piano the motion of the joystick from forward to back for your second charge, so you just do it as quickly as possible.
Let’s say a very skilled player can reliably time his inputs to within a 3-frame window. I believe this is a realistic estimate of most player’s skills as even top players can be consistent with 1-frame links by double-tapping but do not get them 100% of the time, and a double-tap is a 3-frame window. You see Justin Wong fuck up his HP~MP plink with Rufus in SF4 significantly often enough for it to be noticeable (he gets the MP instead of HP because he hits it late) and I don’t think he’s an unreasonable benchmark for execution by a skilled player, as opposed to someone with truly godly execution.
What actually happens is:
F1: :l:
Somewhere between F55-F57: :r:
Somewhere between F57-F59: :l:
Somewhere between F55-F59: :p:
The idea is simply to bring the stick to :r: and then back to :l: as quickly as possible so you are charging as early as possible, and then semi-independent of stick action, you hit :p: (possibly double-tapped or piano’d) at around the same time that you are moving the stick in order to get the sonic boom out.
**Edit2 - tl;dr version - ** Nobody waits to press the button after moving the stick, and conversely nobody waits to move the stick back to :l: after pressing the button. You just do everything as quickly as possible!
Edit: Obviously this is all in relation to SF2. Pre-charging and charge buffering do exist in some games like 3s, but in those cases it is more about getting specific timing for combos and setups or charging separately for different moves, like doing partitioned machine-gun style booms with Remy, as opposed to just throwing a basic sonic boom as fast as possible.
IMO, pre charging vs normal charging can only be seen and not talked about. A lot of people say they can tell the difference, including myself.
And Chun Li is not that easy. My Chun Li has screwed up all sorts of Guiles with two simple attacks, Kikkoken and st Forward as anti air. I rarely jump on Guile. St Forward and close st Forward beat all of Guile’s jump ins. Once Chun Li’s Super is charged, Guile better be careful about the Booms he throws, esp up close.
I remember reading somewhere, wish I could remember…sonichurricane perhaps? Anyway, I am pretty sure you don’t start charging again until the sonic boom comes out. The only thing going back before throwing saves you are the frames it takes to move the stick from forward to back again.
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Since your second boom’s charge requires both :l: and :p: to have been pressed, you just do both :l: and :p: as fast as possible. The regular method user would tend to hit :p: first (and get his boom out slightly faster, I guess), while the precharger would tend to hit :l: first.
Technically the “ideal” input would be something like:
F1 : :l:
F55 : :r: + :p:
F56 : :l:
but you’re right, in actual play it probably looks more like:
F1 : :l:
Somewhere between F55~F57 : :r:
Somewhere between F57~F59 : :l: + :p:
It’s pretty easy to experimentally verify that you start charging before the sonic boom comes out.
Majestros explains it here - http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sfcharge.html
So “charge buffering” does exist but only because you can charge during hitstop, not because of “pre-charging”. Doing [:l:]:r::l:+:p: is technically slower than [:l:]:r:+:p::l:,but it doesn’t actually matter at all because humans don’t have perfect enough timing for there to be a substantial difference. All going to :l: first does is remind you to return to :l: as soon as possible for maximum charge.
Here’s a neat little benchmark I use for boom fights… just listen to Guile. In HDR (the version where Guile sounds like a man as opposed to a horse with his balls tied and repeatedly punched), if you hear Guile say the full Sonic-Boooooooom then you know you can go faster. Even from full screen and no block damage, you can cut his words off significantly - to something like Sonic-Booooo, Sonic-Booooo, Sonic-Booooo, etc.
If the opponent is standing mid-screen blocking your booms it can get ridiculously fast, like Sonic-Boo, Sonic-Boo, Sonic-Boo regularly, reliably, and repeatedly with the precharge method. I don’t know exactly how fast 54fps is in real life, but knowing that the game runs supposedly at 60 fps, that means you can theoretically toss a boom every second with a 6 frame margin of error.
See which method gets you closer to one boom per second and use it!
Hey here’s a question for all you Guileites…
What are everyone’s thoughts on impact slowdown when booms connect successfully? I’ve noticed that on all occasions, for whatever reason I can move Guile during the slowdown period but I can’t attack for what seems like a random length of time.
I play with a regular 360 wireless controller, so I attempt to help my boom combos along by rapidly tapping the buttons. However sometimes I throw a boom that connects and I walk up expecting a throw, but I get NOTHING, even while rapidly tapping. Usually I get punished for that and it makes me look like a noob who would just stand there not blocking or anything.
Other times I can execute Guile’s standing fierce 4-hit (or similar combo) flawlessly.
I’ve even noticed that the slowdown will abruptly end when a move animates before the boom connects, but hits after the boom.
Am I dreaming all this? It has cost me quite a few wins over the years and it’s really annoying if it truly is a random thing.