Hey wait a minute… I just noticed that you’re Mr. x64!! I just got to the point where I can give you a decent match… now I’m telling you all my tactics!! d’oh… Oh well I got others I haven’t told yet.
Your Honda game is tight!! I must admit the short splashes get me almost every time, and you’re even fast enough to get them on reversal. You’re almost exclusively the reason I had to experiment with Honda so much!!
At least you can vouch for a few of my strats as I use them heavily on you!! :razz:
Hahaha… well you can thank JigglyNorris for the invite and I must admit I kinda feel honored that you say that. My Guile play must be halfway decent.
I actually shoulda been here quite a while ago cause I’ve obsessed with this game since it came out back in 1991 (or somewhere around that time). It was amusing enough to me just to make fun of the horrible voice acting that sounded like it was all done by the same guy (even Chun Li) or the hilariously awkward noise everyone made when they got knocked out. I was very pleased that the noise lasted through the retarded aural makeover in SSF2 with Ryu, Akuma and Dhalsim (!!) and even got the stereo upgrade!! It’ll be a noise that I make fun of probably until I bite the big one!!
…and it’s not like I didn’t know about the site either. It’s kinda hard to miss if you’re a fighting game fan. Either way I’m here now. Thanks! I’ll throw up a second batch of strats for everyone to take a look at in the next couple days.
It takes you longer to actually throw the boom out since you have an extra direction to input. When you’re pressing :l: to throw your first boom, I’ve already thrown mine one input ago and I’m charging at the same time you do, since we both press :l: at the same time.
If you want to continue using normal charging that’s up to you but it’s pretty much agreed by the majority that this is the superior method and no your chart is kinda wrong as every boom you throw after the first one will come out later than mine.
Its more like throwing the boom with :l::r::l:+:hp: That way as soon as the boom hits its first startup frame, the next frame allows you to start charging. Where as your top method means you are losing a few frames.
:tup:
Although the majority has been wrong before (ganelon: ps3 vs. xbox), I can easily tell the difference between someone using this and someone not. Its alot harder on fei if they use this technique.
I’m also gonna agree that the precharge technique is better. Think about it from a logical standpoint:
It’s commonly known that there are a few frames of neutrality that are available between inputting any charge and release motion and pressing the button. That’s one of the two ways you get 2-in-1s like Guile’s standing FP into the Flash Kick combo. You’re actually filling those 2 or three neutral frames with an extra unrelated button press before you hit the Flash Kick. Those neutral frames will even allow you to take a half step or so forward after charging a boom before you actually throw them by pressing the button.
So let’s apply this logic. Instead of filling the neutral frames with an extra button press, or with nothing to walk forward, you’re sorta filling them with charge for the next boom by holding :l: the second time. Knowing that charges don’t actually overlap, what ends up happening is that you’re already holding :l: by the time the very first charge frame becomes available for the next boom. My guess is that first charge frame is the very next one after you successfully press the button as that would make the most sense. With the regular method, you’d have to be really coordinated, operating with per-frame speed and accuracy to pull that off. My thumbs personally don’t move at 1/60th per second speed, so that would make me and probably everyone else on this forum lose a few frames between the first and second booms. Assuming a 2 frame loss (generous cause it’s probably more like 5 or 6), by the time we get to 4 booms I’m already 8 frames ahead of you (minus whatever amount of frames it took for the extra initial input). I’m preparing to kick you in the face because I know you’ll either have to block or jump boom #5, and even if you block, you’re not likely to get back into the fight, so I can still kick you for either boom #6 or #7 when you inevitably do jump.
At any rate if you think of it just in terms of an “extra input at the beginning” the you’ll be quickly disillusioned. Maybe your first one will execute slower, but those retained frames will quickly show a difference in the precharge method as your opponent’s lost frames start adding up with the regular method. Even your chart will show you that upon closer inspection you’re actually charging for the next boom a lot earlier with the second method. In both scenarios you’re tossing out 5 booms, but in the second scenario all your charges for the next boom are in the previous motion. Just by that alone, who do you think would throw faster booms?
Funny…I just saw a video where Sean Gilley, a legendary Guile player in his own right, described how using charge :l::r::l:+:p: allows you to be able to keep up with SF4 Ryu longer than :l::r:+:p: does. The empirical data absolutely destroys whatever argument you have against it. Search for his YouTube page and you’ll see what we’re talking about.
I see what you’re saying. Top method gets out a Sonic Boom faster. But the second method allows you to Sonic Boom more frequently. If you’re familiar with 3S, think about Urien’s tackle juggles. You can only tackle juggle if you use the second method. If you try the first method you won’t be able to tackle rapidly enough to get the second one to connect. That said, it’s not like one method is better than the other. It seems like they’re both useful in different situations.
Top one when you need that Sonic Boom to come out as quickly as possible.
Bottom one when you’re stick in a fireball war.
Actually tonight I was throwing them with the :l::r::l: method, and combined with guile’s startup speed it doesn’t really matter that much. The normal :l::r: method is fine if you were planning on just one boom or waking up at full screen and throwing a reversal boom.
However, if you plan on throwing a second one then the :l::r::l: method is :tup:
It feels wierd but yeah you can throw a boom with back+punch :looney:
There’s nothing funny about it. I’ll try explaining it to you one more time. Maybe you’ll understand… and maybe not.
Let’s assume that both players have perfect execution. A uses :l::r::p:, while B uses :l::r::l::p:. Here is what happens. Keep in mind that both players use the exact same directional inputs all the way through, at the very same time. They just press punch at a different time.
A throws his boom first, as I already explained. Then, both players hit back at the same time, thus beginning the charge simultaneously.* A is one step ahead during the entire exchange, since he threw the first boom before B, and they both start charging at the same time for every single boom afterwards.
*Actually, A may start charging a frame before B… I don’t know whether B starts charging at the very frame he throws his boom at :l:, or at the next one. So it’s either simultaneous, or A has the advantage. Thus, the regular method is better at the beginning, then better or equal for the following booms.
This is the part you are not understanding. No disrespect bro, just gonna try to explain it till you get it.
As you yourself stated before, charging for the next Boom begins after the first Boom has been thrown. That means charging starts after the punch button is pressed, not when the stick is in the back position. You’re right, player A *does *get the Boom out first, cuz he hit punch first. *But *player B started charging at the same time for the 2nd Boom and even earlier for the 3rd Boom, cuz he hit back and punch. Player A having to go to the back position after hitting punch, is what will eventually cause him to lose the Boom battle.
After the first Boom, both players start charging at the same time for the 2nd Boom, but that’s it. Every Boom after that, player B has the edge, and is releasing Booms faster, cuz he doesn’t do b after every punch like player A. Even though player A got the 1st Boom out first, player B gets every Boom after that out faster than player A. Try to get a buddy to test this with you, and you will see that normal charging loses a Boom battle to pre charging.
Because player A is not charging when he does b after every punch, he will eventually lose the Boom battle. Player B is already holding b at every punch, and therefore *needs *less time to charge than player A.
I do <-,->, neutral + punch, <- and I haven’t lost a boom fight in like 17 years. this allows you to not lose frames for charging subsequent booms and you throw each sooner because it is one less tick on the joystick when you go from forward to hitting punch. Discuss.
I mean look at your chart!! How can you possibly say that both players are hitting back at the same time when that’s clearly not what’s happening here? If that were the case, then both players would be doing the same thing. But it’s not because they’re not doing the same thing!! COMPARE THE POSITIONS OF THE BACK ARROWS FTW!! Aside from that, the picture isn’t going to show you the frames you’re losing in transition from forward to back in the first scenario versus the frames you maintain in the second by already pressing back. It’s not about inputs it’s about lost frames!! THE FRAAAAAMES!!!
I’d be willing to bet that you’re actually precharging without noticing it like I was doing before I learned what precharging was. Remember, you can hit back again during any one of those neutral frames before the button press and it’ll work. If you nick the controller in the back position on the very frame before you press the button then it’s a precharge and you’re good to go. It can be subtle as the controller or stick will register your holding back the moment you start the motion to slam it in that direction. If you’re really letting go of the controller for those neutrals before you press punch there’s a great chance you’re doing just that.
In other news, did anyone know that Guile’s knee bash stops Akuma’s teleport cold? I just did that twice like 5 mins ago and I said to myself “Isn’t that supposed to be invincible?” Of course I’m not an Akuma player so I never bothered to look at his hitboxes.
:crybaby: