Well why can’t guile be unique in having an overhead that isn’t sweepable? That alone might have made it harder to slide him.
Word bro,
In SSF2, during a the pre Bama tournament in San Fransisco, Ca 1993, Mike Watson and Tomo Ohira really exposed how raped Guiles low forward was by taking a step and low roundhousing with ryu vs Thomas Osakit’s Guile, and hitting the missing hit boxes that the low forward use to have every time Thomas threw it out.
I recently played AE on GGPO and I used HF Guile in which I though was fair since his damage level was tone down compared to CE guile’s vs a ST Claw and the claw player couldnt get past my low forward or booms(which have faster start up compared to ST guile with his low strongs.
But when ur ST Guile you got no defence since Claw can hit you even during a low forward with a low strong.
I’m guessing that most of you HDR players didn’t play SF2 back in the day during CE and HF, so thats probably why most of today’s Guile players dont understand how much better his defence was with that low forward alone.
Why Sirlin? Why didnt you fix it!
Heh heh. I’ve played WW since '91, in the arcades and didn’t switch to console till early 2000. Don’t assume that I’m a noob and don’t know what I’m talking about. I know OJ is old school too, but you’ll probably come up with some other excuse to say that you’re right and we’re wrong.
I KNOW CE Guile’s cr.Forward, I know it very well. I know how awesome it was, and that’s why Guile was top tier. But that’s also why it was nerfed in SSFII. Guile doesn’t need it to win. It was nerfed to balance out the other characters and the overall game. He’s got a lot of other tools, it’s YOU that needs to get creative and figure out other ways to make his cr.Forward work for you. I got no complaints with his cr.Forward, and I’ve been playing longer than you.
Sounds like you had a traumatic experience there. My condolences.
That’s NOT a good thing.
Yes you do have a defence. Graham Wolfe (Claw) vs Paul Eath (Guile). At 3:55 and 4:45, Guile’s cr.Forward trades with Claw’s pokes. And at 5:05, it stuffs Claw’s cr.Strong and at 5:10 it stuffs his cr.Forward. Wow, what a lame attack Guile has!!
If you use it sparingly, you up the chances of trading or stuffing Claw’s pokes. Playing extremely defensively does open you up to walk up throws by Claw, yes I know, but if you’re alert, you can reversal throw him (4:50). Personally, I prefer to Somersault his pokes and advances, but that’s me.
And tho Eath is a good Guile player, I prefer to be a little more aggressive against Claw. I would’ve thrown more Sonic Booms and jumped on him if he advanced. But if you don’t think Eath is good enough to beat Graham Wolfe, then check out Guile’s video matchups by top Japanese players like Batayan and Muteki on streetfighterdojo.com.
It’s fine just the way it is. I can guarantee that if you embrace Remix Guile’s cr.Forward, you will open up your mind to other possibilities and options. You will get more creative and as a result your skills will improve. Mine certainly did, once I embraced Remix Ryu and Ken.
Ok…see this guy here. This blitzfu person? Yeah…him. REP THAT FOOL UP! REP…THAT…FOOL…UP!!! 
No offence dude but you dont know how long me or battersoi has been playing street fighter. Fact is HDR guile is solid mid tier, upper mid tier at best. When the nerfed his low forward, they reduced his effectiveness by about 30-40%
nobody said he didnt have defence. The point is his defensivness has been raped since CE
Claw isnt really that much of problem for guile IMO, but thats besides the point, the point is low forward is too weak and takes too long start up and dosnt hit until well into its animation. Like I said before it loses out to most other fierce and medium sweeps and if you time it well you can walk up to hdr guile and throw him through the low forward bcos of it sluggish start up
If you consider balrog(boxer) look how huge his red hit box is on his normal punches, they extend way past his hand both vertically and horizontally
Is this the same sirlin that gave us HDR akuma??? Besides, it wasnt a question of simply winning, its about what HDR guiles needs to be a viable top tier character that holds his own at top level play. The reason why alot of guile players lament over the low forward is bcos its such an essential part of guiles gameplay. At the moment, theres only so far HDR guile can go. Fact is, overall guile loses badly to balrog, vega, sim and ryu at high level. I dont consider xbl as a reliable source cos of lag and rollbacks. You’ve made a good argument, but im not convinced that the nerfed low forward was justified. Also you mention ryu and ken, ryu has always been a strong character and has always done well at comepetition in all incarnations of SF, in HDR he has a fake fireball which is effective, no recovery on hurricanes so its hard to punish at reaction, he has solid normal moves and probably the best or 2nd best super in the game.
guile super is easy to use and combo, but it pathetic it dosnt force a player to alter his game plan like ryu or boxers. If HDR guile had his CE low forward, then the balrog, claw, sim and ryu matchups would be more level, it wouldnt lead to an all out guile domination. The only effective thing that sirlin gave guile was the over head
HF thread is thattaway ----->
This here’s ST son. We do it Remix style.
nice tactical retreat.
Is this thread really gonna go the way of the old Fei thread ?
Nah
With the exception of Fei, all Overheads are susceptible to slides I believe.
Guile is unique in that his Overhead has the most range. Spaced correctly, it stuffs sweeps. Do it too close, and it usually trades anyway. That’s pretty good IMO.
with regards to what the other players mentioned, i tend to agree with them though. the change in c.forward from the old sf to now is a big deal that guile players are pretty much just forced to deal with. imo, guile is not top tier in hdr and he almost always seems to be weakened in each reincarnation of sf (although st to hdr, with the other char tweeks and guile’s own fixes, he has improved definitely). regarding “opening up your mind to other possibilities and options”, that is definitely good but it could only take you so far with the tools given, and i don’t feel guile has enough to compete CONSISTENTLY with the top tiers of the game (assuming the best guile players faced off vs the best balrogs, sims, etc in a good amount of games). let’s look at daigo for example, who’s been known as a ryu player… yet when 3s came out he switched to ken. of all people, im sure if it was possible… daigo could have built ryu into a powerhouse that could compete in 3s. but this is not the case, and ryu in general is not as good vs the top tiers of that game.
are you sure the move trades consistently with the likes of say ryu/ken’s c.roundhouse attacks etc? also, vs really good shotos, i’ve seen them srk his overhead easily.
c’mon bro preach it!
Couldn’t have said it better those are the exact same characters that give me a problem cause of his nerfed low forward in ST they get in to easily. Guile can’t always rely on booms to keep out people he needs a CE low forward then ST to hang with the top tier and not have such a hard time vs rog, claw, ryu, sim, and chun in these match ups, were once the get in its game over.
SIRLIN needs to re release a NEW VERSION of hdr with guile’s CE low forward, rog’s super tone down more and ryu’s where u wiff a move or a slight mistake u should’nt have to pay for it huge like in ST even for throwing out a boom.
:looney:
Can someone please help me with frame data. (please don?t boo me for potentially making an ass of myself)
I have seen all these combo videos of CE and HF guile doing multiple sonic booms in one combo such as dizzy---- > sonic boom, bazooka knee, sonic boom. Also I have seen videos of Muteki guile doing sonic boom----> bazooka knee (to close the gap) sonic boom. Or sonic boom----> hop kick (again to close the gap) sonic boom. In these instances they go seamlessly into the sonic boom from either the bazooka knee or hop kick. They do not take a any steps back to further charge.
[media=youtube]4nyLMWgVZ4E[/media]
The problem is that I have been trying to look at frame data for guile and have come up with these calculation for his bazooka knee and hop kick into sonic boom. From the videos I?ve seen I?m assuming that you can hold back and do a knee bazooka or hop kick (having not previously held back for additional frames of charging, i.e. simultaneously press back and either LK, or HK ) into sonic boom without taking any steps back. I have not yet been able to do this
From the Hyper Book Yoga the frame data on guiles knee bazooka is as follows 6, 5, 21 the first number (6) is number of frames of start up, the second number (5) is the number of frames it can hit and the third number (21) is the number of recovery frames, his hop kick is 14, 6, 13. Total frames for knee bazooka are 32 frames (6+5+21) and hop kick is 33 (14+6+13). It takes guile 54 frames (success rate: ) to do his sonic boom. I?m missing some 22 frames (knee bazooka) or 21 (hop kick) in order to charge for the sonic boom.
http://lowfierce.blogspot.com/2006/07/design-is-all-about-details.html
http://homepage.mac.com/andrew_j_stewart/geo/guile.pdf
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html
If I?m looking at the guide right (cant read Japanese) guile takes 20 frames to recover from a sonic boom. Assuming that you get charge frames the moment the sonic boom is completed, meaning you can count recovery frames as charge frames if your holding back during these frames you would get 20 frames of charge. So 22-20=2 additional frames of charge needed for knee bazooka and 21-20=1 additional frame of charge needed for a hop kick. It could be that it is possible to do a sonic boom with only 52 or 53 frames or charge but the success rate is lower, but as I was saying from watching Muteki guile and other top guile players it looks as if they can do it 100% time.
Spot my mistakes and correct my assumptions here and please tell me if it is possible (in HD Remix) to seamlessly do a knee bazooka or hop kick into sonic boom. please also tell me if sonic boom----> knee bazooka, sonic boom is possible for those two sonic booms in one combos (while remaining on the ground, never jumping). Please provide video proof if you can please
[media=youtube]P5ftTTvDCPY[/media]
[media=youtube]T9RzdcoBpPo[/media]
IN SSF2, I used to do this combo against gief and sagat:
SB > jumping fierce punch > standing fierce punch > SB > Backfist
has anybody done this in HDR?
I didn’t say “consistently” trades, I said “usually” trades.
Yes, it can get stuffed by sweeps and Shoryukens, but what Overhead can’t? But unlike other Overheads, Guile can stuff sweeps using his range.
In SSF2, that was actually a TOD i believe where you could repeat it and dizzy them again. They took that out in ST i believe, but of course i could be wrong:xeye:
Yes, but all other overheads hit a crouching blanka too. See what I’m saying? It wouldn’t break him anyways, the move loses to a lot of attacks anyways. Especially since its startup was increased and its hitbox toned down.
guiles over head is only effective as a followup to a boom, or after a knock down. It start up is too long to be used a defensive poke. Saything that tho…it is a great addition to guiles scarce arsenel of moves. the way you can mixup and confuse opponants is great and leads to many rage quits
but making it wiff a crouching blanka is a huge mistake.
can any you guys do guile standing fierce punch > flash kick combo consistently? say like 10/10 times?
Well the four fierce hit combo still works in ST.
So if you threw the SB meaty enough it should still work ?