Depends on how i feel more than the match up. If i’m confident i can earn my win I’ll spend the bar. But if i think they’ll eventually get in and go nuts, I’ll save my bar. When i have CA I’ll probably spend 1 bar offensively and try to build it back.
EX trap leaves a cloud on screen after the knockdown you link it from certain normals, or juggles them after other normals allowing you follow up with an EX lunge. I think in the corner it will always juggle, but the bounce is long enough that it functionally gives you a hard knockdown. It seems like this makes EX trap the only good way to set up trap oki (other than a CC sweep) that doesn’t get lose to quick rise. I thought I’d be spending most of my meter on it :s maybe I’m approaching the character wrong and I need to save meter for defensive situations.
still though using 2 meters for about 180 damage isn’t suffecient :/, and not very atractive enough to do it within a combo because most enders can give you decent setups as well. But I haven’t taken a look at high level play to see how they utilize cloud yet!
For sure, the EX trap->EX lunge combo only seems useful if it will close off the round. I am more interested in the oki possibilities of EX trap - as far as I know none of FANG’s other combo enders give him time to safely set up cloud/fireball before the opponent’s quick rise. The high level FANG players I’ve watched don’t really use it though, so I may be overvaluing the advantage of having a trap on screen vs just going for a standard meaty/jump-in/whatever.
I do wakeup CA all the time. People don’t seem to know how to punish it properly right now, so I just let rip.
In regards to the shoto zoning matchup, here are my thoughts:
I look to weasel in with a MP-HP projectile xx EX dash for full screen hit confirms that go through fireballs. If you see him chucking plasma during your up ball you can punish on reaction.
As the guide states, LK Ryobenda (bomb) actually has 2 hits and can stuff EX hadokens for no meter when timed correctly (and its not too strict)
EX Ryobenda maintains the 2 hits on his sleeve like the LK, as well as putting down a 2 hit projectile. Meaning, you can stuff an EX and still retain the two hits once the bomb is actually placed. (you can even use this on Rashid’s Vtrigger which has 3 hits and youll retain 1 hit on your EX bomb. Obviously you can be punished on during the hop back since Rashid is free to do what he pleases.)
Keep in mind if you do this you’re committing meter to zoning, versus spending the meter on hit confirms with HP projectile from full screen, or super.
If you’re behind on fireball tempo cowards crouch xx up ball is a nice way to regain it, DO NOT do this up close.
After casting Ryobenda, the natural reaction for zoners is to throw a fireball to destroy it. from mid range a decent bait is to throw a ryobenda then command dash right after to punish the fireball reaction.
If they’re poisoned and sticking to the fireball game full screen, you can go into evasion mode and force them to come in. A lot of shotos wont come in and will just throw out an ex hadoken once poisoned.
I personally struggle with people chucking plasma right outside of normal range but I guess I just need to read it and command dash/jump in accordingly. I’ve diligently tried to use EX Sotoja to punish this but it takes years to come out.
Hope this helps!!!
Another concept of crouch~up ball is as long as you’re not at the edge of the screen they can’t chuck another projectile until it leaves the screen. If you make the read that they’ll dash or walk behind the fireball you can delay the K follow up from crouch to catch them.
Speaking of which, how’s the AA potential with crouch~k? Has anybody tested this? Not for random AAs but in this scenario there may be something.
What are you guys doing about the Nash and Chun throw a fireball and run in behind it strat? I feel like it loses all of my space and quickly get sufficated with faster pokes and movement.
Also I don’t have a clue how keep Chun off of me. She’s so crazy fast and can easily contest your buttons at range. She just seems like a better version of fang at every point in the game. I’m so afraid to throw out slow pokes because of the threat of v-skill and then I’m going to be on my ass.
I find that a difficult thing to deal with as well. I suppose you could possibly do LK Poison Trap to kill the Fireball, push yourself back, and maybe hit them if they try to throw out an attack. A bit risky if they jump or Chun uses V-Skill to approach though.
Alternatively, just set up a MK or HK trap to absorb the fireball and deal with Chun as she approaches.
EX Lunge may also work. It’s too fast for them to react to, should eat the fireball and score yourself a knockdown. Safe on block too. Although it costs meter.
Just theory fighting though. Usually once Chun-Li gets close, we rarely separate until one of us is KO’d. Nash players I don’t find quite as bad to deal with (but I think Chun is our worst match up, so…)
Thought I might as well do my own:
**Birdie 5-5: **I agree with UD (UltraDavid) here. Birdie really isn’t fast enough to completely rush you down and you can contest his buttons with your own. The chain is extremely dangerous if your in range but if you can circumvent it fullscreen balls can be a pain for birdie with his slow walk speed and poor mobility. There are a few things you have to be extremely careful (ex zonk, chain, slide under balls, ect.) but if you manage those you can control the matchup.
Cammy 4-6: Against a good cammy this matchup feels extremely difficult. I don’t see it being in fangs favor or even unlike UD at any point really. Ex hooligan pretty much completely negates and space you have managed to build and puts cammy on top of you at frame advantage. Once she has v-trigger you can no longer use traps or upballs due to activate S.arrow hitting from like half screen. She also has some of the easiest punishes for any close range cancels into upballs or traps.
Chun 3-7: I don’t have a clue what to do in this matchup either. Once again I agree with UD here that it feels rough at every range. She’s fast and can’t really be zoned that well with her v skill and walk speed+ fireballs. I just get suffocated with instant air legs and pressure. I haven’t played many bad chuns though so it could be some bias from seeing how she works at the higher level.
Dhalsim 4-6: Sims are usually pretty good or pretty bad. It seems to difficult to tell this matchup for me right now. Sim just seems to have the variability on his side with you having to play his game that he chooses though. Fangs pressure is not that scary for sim and fang struggles to play any real game at range due to the dash getting stuffed by low pokes and his walk speed being a crawl.
**Karin 4-6 **I’m not sure if this matchup is super bad but Karin can decide she doesn’t want to get zoned pretty much by just using a combination of dashes and her shoulder. I think it can take some serious time for Karin to really get fang where he doesn’t want to be because the trap and light balls are kind of a pain for her more so than some other characters. I think one of Karins big weaknesses is her weak anti airs outside of ex uppercut and Fang can’t really exploit that with his floaty jump.
Ken 5-5: I’m not super sure here. This matchup seems to be really polarizing depending on a few key reads from each player. I think ken is going to usually come out ahead but you can easily frustrate ken by making the fang wall of pokes and specials pretty easily here. It’s probably 5-5 if ken is forced to play fair though.
Laura 5-5: I thought this was in lauras favor a ton before but She can have a super hard time getting in. She really relys on her armored ex move to blast through but if you get a read for when she’s looking to use it she really can run out of options for a safe approach. If shes in its a nightmare for fang but if fang is controlling tempo she has a very hard time as well.
M.Bison 4.5-5.5: He just presses so many buttons with better damage output that this can be rough. I find myself trading a ton with him where he runs into a trap with scissor kick hitting me or i trade anti airing him or we both poke eachother a few times. This might be more 5-5 but i think bison has far better pressure and fangs zoning game can be questionable here.
Nash 4-6: Can be a complete nightmare if the nash is on point because he seemingly can negate all your zoning with well placed fireballs and flip kicks. I think being patented is important here as he doesn’t have the best options for opening you up but can capitalize on mistakes extremely well. This matchup can be extremely snowbally for either character though as both sort of lack defensive options and their slow walk speeds means they may dash into a lot of pokes more so than other matchups.
Necalli 4.5-5.5: Necalli isn’t that great at getting in. He may be one of the worst at it considering how important it is that he gets close. However if he gets a read his disc just blasts through and zoning your setting up. It’s a bit of a risk for him though because fang can lunge punch him back away if he misses. His pressure is quite hard for fang to excape for fang though and the matchup slides more in necallis favor the longer fang gets trapped at close range.
R.Mika 4-6: I actually think this matchup is worse for Fang than UD thinks. Her damage output and setups after knockdowns are just to hard for fang to deal with. She will usually get zoned out for a while but with 1 good read or knockdown she can usually turn that into a round win. She puts you into the corner with 1 combo and from there fang has a hopeless time trying to get out from characters with command grabs and good walk speed.
Ryu 5-5: I really don’t know on this matchup. It seems really to just go to the better player as both characters can control the same spaces and pressure each other pretty well. I see no real advantages for any real reason.
**Vega 5-5:? **Uh I actually don’t know for sure on this one. I haven’t seen a lot of higher level vega play. I will have to play it more to see.
**Zangief 4-6: **If gief understands the matchup its in his favor. If gief doesn’t understand what he can and can’t do it’s like 7-3 in fangs favor. LP grab is extremely good against fang as a lot of his game is canceling things into traps or balls to give himself space. Gief can just scoop him up usually at that range or close to it and completely ignore the poison zoning. Giefs V-trigger just grabs fang out of any poison zoning he is trying to setup and takes a mean chunk of health so it makes the last bit of damage that fang needs to finish off gief extremely difficult. It takes a lot of st.mps to kill someone with like 400hp remaining.
I agree with UD quite a bit and this is just my opinion at this point. I’m not sure how it will play out once i see how each characters tech develops.
If you’re up against Chun/Cammy, just drop your stick/pad and have a Coca Cola B)
Let’s switch gears for a second and ask, who does FANG beat?
uh, Birdie?
all i know is i’m positive chun is the worst matchup and that dhalsim isn’t that bad, even though i haven’t played fchamp or arturo yet so i guess i dunno for sure.
Bison looks bad on paper but i think its 5-5 in the end. cammy 4-6 is agreeable.
nash 5-5 imo.
Karin may end up being 6-4 Fang at some point she can’t really do shit to approach and he just gets control. Right now for me its 5-5ish. Gief may also end up being 6-4 but it’ll always be hard evne with that number.
what do i do against people who wont stop pressing buttons
depends on the buttons they are pressing and when they are pressing them.
I’m struggling against Necalli and Cammy the most, right now.
3 frame normals are a problem. Played a great vega yesterday that just ran away the whole time. Seems rough to me. Gotta keep him in the corner but he’s so fast so its hard to react to runaway online. He may have just been better than me though I was kinda impatient with the jumping back so i was chasing him since it was just so boring. need more exp. to really tell.
Laura player was trading 3f jab with my 4f jab after a blocked st hk, interrupting my pressure. really annoying actually.
Number one rule: stop doing HK on 3 frame characters. Use c.mk instead.
depends on the situation. Usually if they won’t stop pressing buttons they are open which means you can punish them. If you mean corner pressure, just use V-Reversal.
Or respect their pressure and wait for two things. A Jump in/Cross up which you can counter with cr.HP or a tick throw which you can tech or stuff with jab. That requires good reads though.
I know that sounds easier said than done but there are characters that simply murder FANG with pressure, the best advice I can give is to simply don’t put yourself in that position. If im dealing with a character that has really good normal, I start getting out my clouds and poisons as fast as I can and lame it out and stay there. You’ll be surprised how even the most patient and calculating player will get frustrated and just run into your stuff. I only rush down when I feel confident I can hold my ground.
Also its good to be back.