st lp will trade or win if you time it right, also just react and jump back or neutral jump hp. I think you can even time a cr hp to work as anti crossup. You can also dash forward of course. a lot of fang is just about utilizing his extremely strong mobility
Fangs wake up ex teleport slide has been hard for me to master, the timing is a bit hard, anyone else have trouble with it under pressure ?
Ok I’m silver with FANG and I have to say Necalli counter FANG hard, I thought Ryu and Ken were bad match ups but if you utilizes your V reversal right you can change the course of the match quickly. If you catch a mid screen fireball from the shoto bros v reversal puts you right in front of them to apply pressure or reversal if done correct. If it’s 3/4 screen and theyre throwing consecutive fireballs you’ll actually dodge the second fireball in your v reversal almost always and be able to punish hard.
Match ups wise Necalli is almost unwinnable, R. Mika and Laura are really hard to keep off, and Vega can punish just about everything you do even some things that are safe against other characters.
worst ranked 1. Necalli 2. Vega 3. Laura 4. Mika
So far “easy” matchups (unless I just haven’t fought enough good users) are Gief, Dhalsim, Rashid, Bison.
Let me explain the Dhalsim and Bison match ups. Dhalsim’s limbs get stuffed by cloud so utilize the hell out of it in your match against him, cr. bk. HP hits teleport for free even if you started it prior to the teleport, Poison shots cancel his flame shot and the extra one goes past so your projectile wins all together, and a lot of his air pokes can be stuffed at the right time by st. mk. But like I said I’ve only come across a handful of dhalsims but that’s my opinion so far. Bison’s stomp gets beat by cr. HP on moderate timing, stomp becomes unusable when using arch poison usually LP, poison cloud stops scissor kick pressure and dash pressure, cr. lk stop bison’s normal pressure and gives the counter check for cr.mp combo and usually gets bison players to be more weary on their footsie pressure.
Something good about the Bison matchup is that when you really nail down FANG’s pressure game he’s forced to v reversal so you don’t have to put up with his idiotic trigger mode, which is the only time I really get scared in that matchup. Otherwise you can cr.hp/st.mk nearly every jump from multiple angles, you can st.mp teleport dash gimmicks, and etc etc. It only gets annoying when he mixes in tick throws, but you should be able to get the CH jab to whatever you want to sotoja/dash in for pressure again.
I agree this is a losing matchup for FANG. The only way to win this is to bait uppercuts on wakeup and punish badly placed wolverine slashes (but good Necalli’s won’t give you this opportunity and will just use safe stomp and put you into 50-50 situation afterwards).
This matchup is also pretty cheese because I think Necalli’s uppercut should be a charge-move not shoryuken motion, as this allows him to walk towards FANG just outside of FANG’s poking range without any worry for spacing since Necalli can just outpoke you and uppercut any cross up or jump in attempt for free. If Necalli’s uppercut motion changed to a down-up charge thatd make more sense imo.
But there’s Vega/Chun in this game with ridiculously OP frame data plus new quarter circle motions instead of traditinal charge/piano (in part or full)so there goes any sort of “Street fighter” sense out the window in this game…
Who’s bright idea was it to make other characters not be held to their traditional charge based or piano based moveset except FANG? I’m hoping this is due to no testing from beta phases.
lol, charge is the only thing keeping FANG’s zoning fair. Can you imagine a motion FANG? They would have to limit him to one type of projectile at a time like Dhalsim (Can’t Yoga Blast during Yoga Fire’s arc), which would make FANG even worse.
FANG is not meant to be an easy character, but he becomes oppressive once he gets going. I don’t find Necalli too bad until he gets in, which he has trouble doing if you prepare because:
-He doesn’t have ways around cloud as good as Nash VT or Dhalsim’s teleport
-His normals don’t have great range (your st.MP’s range is on par with Necalli’s st.HK, but safe and special-cancelable)
-His rush attack is telegraphed due to being charge, and he only has 1 version of his dive kick
Does he out damage you? Yes. Can he open you up like a tin can if he gets in? Yes. However, most of the cast already does this, but don’t have clear advantages on FANG because they can’t get in and have to deal with his amazing pokes. My picks for really frustrating matches go to:
-Nash: GOD DAMN DO I HATE FIGHTING THIS ZOMBIE-MOTHERFUCKER. His normals are at least on par with yours, if not better. His fast jump and strong air normals make him a bitch to anti-air, so he can get in and mix you up really easily. You absolutely have to knock him down and pressure him to death, and cannot afford to let him get going.
-Vega: Vega has a number of ways to absolutely fuck over the aspiring FANG player. His air throw (Nash has one too, but I didn’t mention it) is great for snagging you out of your “not -quite-Dhalsim’s-but-still-pretty-floaty” jump, and blocking his roll leads to a bad time. Claw stance normals are on par with or better than yours, so even playing footsies against him is hard sometimes.
-Rashid: Much like Nash, his VT mitigates your carefully-placed projectiles. Even before that comes into play, you have to deal with his fast air options, cross ups, and dive kicks, which give FANG trouble. Not a fun time for us.
I will also say that FANG destroys the grapplers in this game because of his normals and projectiles. I actually feel bad when I find a Zangief online, lol.
I think the biggest thing to take away from watching brawl today is that we should put more emphasis on our normals up close and understand the time and place for specials - either when we condition, at optimal spacing or attempting some tomfoolery.
90% of specials in this game are unsafe, this isn’t an exclusive thing for fang. There are rarities like Sim, but for most characters to be completely safe or to keep their turn on block with a special they either have to consider spacing/angle (divekicks, scythe, certain fireballs) the gap they impose due to the speed of their move (moonsault) or spend meter.
Kind of a blanket statement, but that’s how I feel right now. Fang has pretty damn good normals. S.hk is good for opening up a third of the cast, and to take care of 3framers we have c.mk to help lock down and bolster our pressure.
Yes, my glass is half full
100% of his specials are unsafe XD and can be countered
Worst matchups definitely involve vega nash and cammy.
But I really think** knowing when to press st jab is a very importan**t part of his close game when fang is on the defensive. some of them are hard to react/time in order to get the counterhit and MUST be executed right or you will go into a 50/50 state.
For example rashid’s spining mixer covers a lot of horizontal space and is -1 on block. You have to get a frame perfect hit which is not easy to do otherwise you can trade, get thrown(which is annoying), or get counterhit on yourself for missing the jab at frame perfect timing
Here are my current thoughts on Fang’s matchups so far (Fang’s number on the left):
Birdie 5-5: I can see this being 6-4 for Fang in the future. As long as you’re starting off from further than chain’s range, you can control the matchup and pace really well. But Birdie in vtrigger is really strong and his grab-based pressure can blow up ex dash escapes.
Cammy 4-6: Just tough to deal with her up close pressure. I do think that Fang can zone her out and antiair her and stuff, it’s just that once she gets in it’s really tough. But I can see this being 5-5 in the future once I learn better defense and good vreversal timings.
Chun 3-7: Her move speed is so fast, her pressure tools are so good, and her control of the midrange game is so strong. I haven’t been able to set up offense, set up zoning, contest buttons, or really even run away all that well.
Dhalsim 4-6: I thought about putting this at 3-7. Sim’s zoning and pressure both seem to work out really well against Fang. He also prevents Fang from setting up fireball pressure with the threat of teleport on reaction. I feel Fang has to play a more traditional approach game and that’s not his strength.
Karin 4-6: Her movement and resenha are tough for Fang to deal with.
Ken 5-5: I find that Fang controls his approach angles well, but Ken has probably the best wakeup in the game so pressuring him is risky, and Ken’s pressure if he gets in on Fang is very strong.
Laura 5-5: Fang can control space and movement and can pressure well, but if she gets in, it’s over.
M.Bison 4-6: I think Fang really needs to get in to play against Bison. I haven’t been able to control Bison’s movement very well and giving him space for those buttons, approaches, and vtrigger shenanigans is dangerous.
Nash 4-6: I feel Nash out-zones Fang and when he gets vtrigger it’s very tough for Fang to set things up, so getting in is a better bet. But Nash has great antiairs and escape mobility, so that’s not easy.
Necalli 4-6: I can see this being 5-5, but we’ll see. Like with many Necalli matchups, I feel that it comes down to regular Necalli vs vtrigger Necalli. Fang can zone and control regular Necalli, but vtrigger Necalli’s mobility and pressure make it very tough.
R.Mika 5-5: Much like against Laura, I think Fang can zone pretty well and can pressure pretty well, but he can really get busted up if Mika gets in on her own terms.
Rashid 4-6: His mobility makes it hard to keep him out or to set things up for me.
Ryu 5-5: I feel Fang can zone decently in this matchup. Mine out to absorb a fireball, toss upfireballs, mine out, upfireballs, cancel into ex dash on reaction to a Ryu fireball, etc. There’s also a range from far away where Fang can jump and either hit with jump fierce or make Ryu’s antiairs whiff if he empty jumps. That said, if Ryu gets closer I think his buttons dominate Fang’s and he can pressure well.
Vega 5-5: I feel that this is pretty even so far. Fang has to worry about Vega’s mobility and be very cautious about using mine in neutral when Vega has vtrigger, but I do think that Fang’s pressure is strong against Vega and he can set up some traps that Vega has difficulty with. It’s hard to get started on a patient Vega, but you can snowball once you do.
Zangief 4-6: I feel that Gief can deal with Fang’s zoning. Gief will take poison damage, he’ll run into a down-toward hp, whatever. He has too much life to be really concerned with whether he’s poisoned imo. In the meantime he can vskill to get vtrigger, and vtrigger is really tough for Fang to deal with because so many of his tools can be whiff punished on reaction with it, not just the projectiles but normals too. I don’t really think Fang’s normals keep up with Gief’s in footsies, and while Fang’s ex dash and vreversal are really great in some matchups, the fact that they’re throwable means Gief can exploit them well. The mine doesn’t offer as much protection against Gief as in many matchups either since Gief can spd Fang from behind it from about 1/4 screen. I would say Fang should pressure Gief, but that vskill absorbing two hits means that options like meaty st hk or jump hk are riskier vs Gief than against most characters.
I expect a lot of these matchup to get better for Fang as we get better control of him though!
I agree with Chun being by far Fang’s worst matchup. I can’t even figure a proper gameplan against her. She can kill Fang’s zoning easily, frametrap game is heavily skewed in her favour so pressure is hard as well (and her retarded revesal nullifies any left/right shenanigan); can’t stay in the air either since her AA/A2A options are strong and damaging, downright scary in VT. Can’t even put up a wall with Ryobenda/upballs, with her kikoken and walkspeed she can take care of those faster than I can set them up. If she even charges super it’s over.
Fangs can never be chipped out of supers. I agree she has VERY good block strings that are scary and impossible to counter, but it is possible to have an offensive game against her. I don’t think that 3-7 is right, but it isn’t far from the truth unfortunately.
Id rather take a throw then to press buttons during her VT, and jumping is not the best options either, but i think with some patience this can definitely be a 4-6
Curious about the Ultradavids opinion on the matchup with cammy, but i know it’s not favorable :/.
For me in my experience so far, I find everyone to be ok or easy for fang except chun li. I get the feeling she is easy to use and when you add that to the fact that she already is the quickest person in the game it makes her seem op.
Sorry, didn’t realize I forgot Cammy. I updated the post to include her! In short, I feel it’s a slight loss for Fang for now but I can see it being even in the future!
[quote=“Unomia, post:71, topic:177875”]
it’s not about chip damage, didn’t even think about that. It’s the fact that with super loaded she shuts up even the very few options you have while she doesn’t have a super ready.
The secret to fang vs necalli i feel is not relying so much on your specials. Being mobile with slide and using your normals to out poke him and get him swinging to whiff punish is where you get things started. But trying to zone will easily get you cornered and killed since its easy for him to bypass when he has charge. When you have meter you can hide behind ex ryobenda (which will eat his seismo and punish charge). But if you’re not confident in your ability to keep him contained, just save for super so he has something to think about and can’t just mindlessly rush you down. What sucks is how easily things can go sour if you’re not careful. With no reversal, you’re really at his mercy on KD.
Do you guys hold your meter for wake up CA in specific matchups? I feel like against Mika I almost need to threaten the wakeup CA to get out of the 50/50 pressure on my wakeup. It honestly sounds like the scrubbiest thing using CA as a reversal but people get accustomed to pushing buttons on FANGs wakeup every time. I think against Mika is the only one I’m conserving meter against right now but there could be others if my zoning game isn’t going well.
I typically only use my meter for Supers, reversal or for combos. Sometimes I’ll do an EX Slide, or EX Trap/Lunge if it’ll get me the kill, but it’s not that common.
People love to pressure FANG. Block Nash’s sonic scythe? You can be certain he’ll do SOMETHING, so throwing out a super after blocking one is pretty guaranteed until people realize the threat (which will take awhile).
Our super is really handy as a reversal, more than most, because it’s invincible and active BEFORE the animation freeze. Even if someone waited a few frames before going for a throw or pushing a button, they’d still get hit. In almost any other situation, their hesitancy would save them since the animation freeze would give them time to confirm not to press a button.
I’m also trying to convince myself it’s not a scrubby tactic, but the amount of success I have using it when I know my opponent is at frame advantage (R. Mika charged s.HK, Nash Sonic Scythe, Bison. s.HK, FANG s.HK, etc) is 100% so far. I do it less on wake up honestly, because people expect it more there. I feel dirty with how often it works, but it’s all for Lord Bison.
Even the high rank Fang’s throw out wake up CA. Me personally, I use meter for EX-moves 'cause I don’t think his CA is all that great. EX-slides can really save the day. If only characters built meter differently, FANG would be better if he could build meter faster.
I burn through a ton of meter with everything but EX trap normally because all of the EX moves are so much better than their normal version. I always feel pretty meter constrained.
EX lunge and dash are def my favorites. -3 on ex lunge is very generous of capcom to do lol. Ex trap is just as useful as the hk version. But I like to use ex trap on people who have multiple armor moves like laura