I was thinking of some changes/buffs Fang could get to help him without overdoing it:
Make Sotoja a motion special. With the exception of Fang, all charge characters now have at least one motion special or TCs for combos. Not only is Fang lacking in both these departments, he is the only one without a reliable NH link option that let’s him build the charge for a special. I think Sotoja is fine for this, as it’s man use is combo filler, with the EX being able to serve as a good neutral tool.
Make either cLP or cLK a 3f move. Despite being a blockstring/pressure oriented character, Fang does not have a 3f move, which leads to situations of being far weaker compared to other characters designed around heavy pressure. Given Bison’s sLK buff in s2 I don’t think either of these would be too far fetched an buff, as neither can combo into anything.
Allow sMK to be able to be canceled on both hits. I think given the need of a reliant light confirm, which FANG lacks entirely, is something that would be a reasonable qol fix. Making it so sLP, sMK is always able to cancel into a special would greatly help him here. It would also allow for interesting AA based mix-ups with his new VT when sMK only hits once, however I see this being a reason for them to ignore it.
Change Coward crouch and follow up to an additional V-skill move. I think given the extent which FANG needs v-reversal, and the lack of application his current v-skill has alot of the time, he could use an additional way to gain v-meter.
Few frame changes: Reduce sLK down to 4-5 frames, I can’t figure out why he has the slowest sLK in the game. Reduce sHK to match other similar moves(Bison/Balrog/etc), or boost his advantage on hit/block.
Any thoughts? Not stuff I ever expect to see, or really know how well it would work, but just some simple stuff I think would help out a bit.
Would be a nice buff. I’m personally alright with it staying charge motion, but if they ever did want to go this route I agree it would have to be Sotoja and would make some sense.
cr.LK and cr.LP would likely get corresponding nerfs if they did make them 3f. I’ve recently learned cr.LP does have a lot more usefulness than I originally thought, and cr.LK is our only safe low. It only does 20 damage so I agree that it does need to be stronger in some way. I wish I didn’t need a counter hit or meaty set up to combo into st.MK from it, but alas. FANG’s weak low game is a big problem for the character.
I feel like the real issue with this normal is that the first hit is just too short of range. If it was buffed it would solve FANG’s issues with punishing more -6 moves, and maybe even let him combo off cr.LK. That’s probably why they’ll never do it as it would be too good? I dunno, doesn’t seem too broken to me, but I’m obviously biased. As an anti air, both st.MK and cr.MK only hit once (but do the full 60 damage), so I’m not sure if V-Trigger or your change would modify this in any way. Maybe I read it wrong though.
That is a cool idea. It’d probably need to be a small amount though, a lot of FANG players abuse coward crouch like crazy (I am one of them haha), considering how good the move already is!
Our st.LK is really slow, but it combos into st.MP on counter hit so it’s super valuable too. It also does 40 damage which is about as damaging as any light attacks can be, which might help explain its slow start up (cr.LK does 20 damage and is 5f start up, and only combos into st.LP, st.LK. Capcom why?!)
For the sMK change I meant that either part of the hit can be cancelled. My main idea being it would give let him lay a Ryobenda if he AAs with it with a charge, or Nishikyu in VT.
Honestly at this point though I would kill to have charge moves just be reverted…I still sometimes have stuff like jHP,sHP, HP Sotoja end with the Sotoja not come out.
Ah, in that case yes, that would be a very cool change for st.MK.
As for HP Sotoja, I think a lot of FANGs drop that now in Sesaon 2 because of the charge cancel window changes they’ve made. st.HP > HP Sotoja has an odd timing compared to anything else; you can’t cancel as early as you can off stuff like cr.MP or st.MK. You need to delay it a bit.
Unless you’re having issues with L Sotoja/etc as well. I know the HP > HP Sotoja has been a big problem for me that I’m only starting to overcome.
Yea, mainly the sHP, HP Sotoja has been my bane playing Fang since s2 lol. Can’t even count how many times I’ll finally have the momentum swing and hit sHP, and for him to just stand there. Never had to lab to just do a damn cancel XX
Oddly enough, it feels easy when I do the new sLK, sLPx2, sHP route.
I do have trouble with stuff coming out from sMP a fair deal of the time online, but that’s getting better. Granted that’s usually only missing out on like 100ish damage+poison+ knockdown. Gone from like 100% to like 80% consistency.
I’ve mostly put him on the back burner though, so probably a combination of that and system changes as well.
Isn’t Fang the only character that can’t combo a special from a light attack?
Pretty sure everyone else can do it.
Because of this I really feel characters can abuse fang with their minus moves with little fear. His only special
comboing move is now 7f which is obscenely slow and can punish very little.
I’d personally be happy with LP, ex Sotoja.
I think if he had a 3f normal it would make blocked HK too strong and would need to be changed.
One change I’d really like would be crMP to go back to 6f.
This gives you a slightly faster move to punish minus moves and give you a solid 3f trap of stLP, crMP
sHK at +2 or him having a 3f move wouldn’t be crazy. Balrog/Bison have similar sHK in function that are faster, more + on block, and both have 3f moves that can be converted into damage. Fang does not. I think it would be much stronger due to poison (in theory, poison is always in theory) but I’m of the belief that especially strong stuff is not a bad thing to give characters. Especially considering they went that route with others in s2. I’m definitely biased, but giving Fang the ability to actually punish things that virtually everyone else can seems reasonable…
Edit:
Another point I think on sHK is how disjointed the hits are. I’ve been thrown out in between knees before. If they wouldn’t make it more + on block or anything that is a point I’d like addressed.
The difference for me with this is that fang’s HK moves him forward and puts you back top of the opponent, whereas the other characters will pretty quickly become out of range if they continue to try and trap.
I was thinking about other changes I’d personally want…
One would be heavy sweep having a lower hit box.
I find it really suprising how many times I’m hit by something that I thought I was sweeping under, eg Guile’s V Skill. Other characters can sweep Guile out of this move but Fang’s sweep gets hit.
Another would be adjustment to the hit box on Ryobenda.
The amount of times I’m hit with something when I’m standing on the other side of one of these is quite annoying. I’ve literally been hit with Ken’s HK after planting one right in front of him. There’s numerous other characters moves that will avoid this too
Some times you get trades, but they’re never in your favour. If you’re hit first then the Ryobenda disappears so they get the hit for free!
Possibly it’s been designed that certain moves will get round it, but if that’s the case it personally makes Ryobenda a lot more useless when people really start to learn the match up. A knowledgable Urien for example can just MK you every time you try to drop one in front of them.
Most moves that are visual similar to Ken’s sHK don’t have a hurtbox until you get into his leg. I know Urien’s is the same way, not sure about Necalli/Laura sHK off top of my head.
I’m having a big hardware issue that has been genuinely hurting my performance. I have a new PS4 TE2 fightstick and, for whatever reason, activating FANG’s coward crouch is painfully inconsistent. There are way too many moments in which I get punished, and matches I outright lose, because I throw out a cr. HP, MP, or LP instead of the Senpukuga.
BUT… I do not have this issue with FANG’s V-Reversal (which, of course, also uses all 3 punch buttons). V-Reversal always works without fail. What’s more, my PS3 TE stick when it’s connected as a legacy controller has no issue at all with the coward crouch. Senpukuga comes out every single time with no issue, all day long.
So what gives? Any good technicians out here who might be able to help me resolve whatever the issue is with my TE2 stick?
Yeah, I just really don’t want to have to learn another (3P) button, I’m too familiar with the 6-button arrangement. I’d go back to using my PS3 stick as a legacy controller before I tried relearning a button configuration. But then I’d be wasting the ~$300 I spent on the TE2.
I just want my expensive controller to operate the way it should.
And down-back + 3P doesn’t help. As FANG,
I’m always pressing DB anyway. There’s clearly something wrong with the controller. I’ve had it for almost a year now and was hoping it would just fix itself or I would accomodate. But no. I don’t understand what could be the problem… mechanically, it doesn’t make sense to me. But sure as shit, when I plug in my PS3 TE stick, I can get Senpukuga to come out 100 out of 100 times. After all, it’s a ridiculously simple input! But on my TE2, I’m lucky if I get it 50% of the time. I know you’re probably thinking I’m crazy and it’s just operator error but I promise that truly isn’t the case.
It’s driving me mad. Imagine trying to crouch under an hadoken, but instead getting popped in the face with it. That’s a very regular experience for me.
Down back and all 3 punches. It feels more natural to me, as I have the same problem on stick. when i do down all 3 punches I always get cHP lol, but I never mess up when i do down back.
All 3 punches need to be hit on the same frame, I don’t think there’s a window like ex mods and v reversals. Either set a 3 punches macro or clean up your inputs.
Isn’t Gen’s super from Alpha perfect for FANG? Why didn’t Capcom think of that? For those who don’t know, Gen touches you and a timer appears over your head. You lose a little bit of life every second the timer goes down, and the only way to get ridof the timer is to land a hit on Gen. If the timer reaches 0 a big chunk of life is taken from you.
It was actually different to this. Once the timer hit 0 the opponent automatically went dizzy, which allowed a combo for free.
The theory is sound though…
With the timer leading to a serious situation for the opponent, it REALLY puts the pressure on them to act
One problem with FANG right now is that many people don’t really fear being poisoned or see it as a reason to act.
I think currently the poison deals 50 damage if left (someone correct me if I’m wrong) which is in-between a light and a medium attack for damage.
It would be nice if there was a way to “power up” the v-skill (similar to Mika) so if it hits the opponent the poison damage will be greater. This could potentially give players a reason to fear being hit by it and feel the need to react if they do get hit.