fixed.
I think that if anything needs to be cut, it should be based off of number of entrants this year. Nothing more.
The games that should be at EVO are:
3S
MvC2
SSB(?)
These games have the highest turnout, therefore making them absolutes for EVO staff to run. Businesses want to make money, and that’s what these games do.
GG - I seriously have no idea where the “nobody plays this game” and “it’s community is too small” comments come from, considering that it has consistently been in the top 3 ~ 4 for number of entrants at the past 3 EVO tourneys, but whatever. Additionally, GGAC will be getting a stateside release in the next few months on the Wii and PS2, doing nothing less than boosting the (potential) number of entrants in tourneys around the entire country exponentially. That paired with the fact that the US ALMOST WON this year makes GG a definite for next EVO.
SC4/Tekken 6 - both of these games have the potential to be amazing and have huge turnouts, but I put them on the same line because they are not out yet and we don’t know what their communities’ reaction to them will be. Should they come out early '08, there should be enough feel for them by the planning stages for EVO world to know which one would be a better choice, if not both, to run tourneys for. It’s a toss-up at present.
CvS2 - Good pros and cons have been listed about this game already so we’ll leave the pros to this one. Either way, the debate will continue on forever regardless of weather it is left in or not. Fun game, just time consuming.
ST, VF, others - unfortunately, these games don’t produce the numbers or hype that any of the other choices do (not putting anyone’s game down or anything) so would only succeed to eat up time that other games could be using so that the 1 match 3S fiasco doesn’t happen again. Like someone said earlier, maybe a remix mode special event would be cool for ST, but not a full tourney. I know people are going to yell about ST, but just looking at it logically, it wouldn’t be a good choice to have over, say, Tekken.
That’s all I’ve got.
You obviously have no idea what you are saying, Stop hating
I love puzzle fighter to death but don’t see puzzle fighter or sc4 getting too many entrants. GG will still be thriving, i could list many tournaments where they are gathering or playing in tournaments in prep for Evo the next evo already. There will not only be even more participants but there will be a US version out. GGAC is said to be the last anyway so that shouldn’t be a problem either.
Basically taking out GG singles out a LOT of people.
Also making it 10:30am is not a good idea at all. We in Vegas baby, people stay up real late.
Bro, we had already had 50 entrants at this tournament. Fifty. For a ‘side tournament’ for a game the majority of SRK hates on, that’s pretty fucking good.
Im waiting for actual numbers from the rest of the tournaments to see how we compared, but we were easily the biggest side tournament there that wasn’t affialiated with a main game (ie GG singles or Marvel team tournament).
I just wanna put a word in support for GG being a main at EVO2k8. Like others have already said, a stateside release has great potential for bringing in a much larger player base, as I know a lot of friends who don’t have modded ps2’s and are still waiting for the US release.
Aside from the potential for new players to the scene, I’m fairly certain most if not all the participants this year will also be there next year. I myself was kinda iffy on going this year, but after experiencing EVO firsthand I’m certain to be there again next year. FOR SURE!!
Also, may I suggest moving EVO to an earlier date, since this year many students have school on Aug 27, so having EVO earlier in the summer would be more convenient for a lot of people… at least that’s how I see it.
PS – ST, SSBM, and MVC2 were also definitely fun to watch 
dota at evo ? =O
I don’t want to bash on GG or any game, but your example, Third Strike, was picked up by Evo only when the community proved to the Cannons that they could get big numbers at other tournaments. The community was already somewhat big when it was picked up by Evo. That’s my point. I mean, all personal reasons aside, I think my post makes it pretty clear that Third Strike and MvC2 are absolutely necessary, and that CvS2 is pretty strong.
Side tourneys are good too. SNK tourneys or Marvel teams are lots of fun. My point for GG is not only abiuty its popularity, buty about its seriousness as well. GG players have no intention of seeing who’s the best. They rather play teams. They also have no aspirations of ever beating the japanese. The prize is no motivation and the competition is not that much of a motivation either. A big gathering can just as well happen with a side tourney, IMO.
I bet that’s not the Mission Statement of Evo. If they want money, its better to get rid of all those 3 games and run tourneys for FPS games. If they want money, is actually better to not do Evo and invest thier time in other things. They don’t make money out of Evo, but they have to work a lot for it.
Plus big numbers demand big resources. A 300 tourney is not much different from two 150 tourneys.
So GG beat one out of MvC2, 3rd Strike, CvS2 and Tekken? I highly doubt it. I discussed GG already in this same post, and I’ll post a little more about it below.
How about tryting to argue your point.
I went to you rthread to criticize GG players wanting Ac at Evo. IMO, what was the point. Japanese player have been playing it for a year and US players would have played it for a month. Instead of seeing if they have what it takes, US players wanted to concede the win to the japanese and just have some fun. You don’t want to win.
More than that, GG is the only community who wants only team tournaments. You don’t give a damn about who is the best player and, with team tourneys, this will actually be impossible to find out. Again, you don’t want to win.
If you don’t want to win, what’s the point of having tournaments. I see people more hungry about winning for MvC1 and SNK games for crying out loud.
If you want a team tourney, it is only logical to make it a side one. If you want a gathering, it is only logical to not waste almost ten thousand dollars and lots of times and resources with it.
The truth is that each game that gets out of the official line up makes the tournament way better, and still allows side tournaments, big money matches and what not. Evo is not Evo without Marvel, and today 3rd Strike as well. I think all the others have to prove their worth.
Of course it would be nice to have GG, Tekken, MB, VF, DoA, SSBM, SC, MK, KOF, MvC1, XSF, Alpha 2 and 3, and many more, but that’s not an option, at least not a wise one. If you guys manage to run a non Evo tourney with 200 people and beat Ogawa while at it at an ndividual tournament, I’ll be the first one to cry GG Forever on my signature. I don’t think this will happen soon.
Posting in this thread is no help. If you want to keep the game at Evo as an official tournament, you gotta work hard and bring in the numbers, like the 3rd Strike players did at the time.
I ay the same for MB. If you want a tourney get big numbers, and I mean big, outside of Evo. Having more people than Garou is nice, but not Lets-get-this-to-evo nice.
I honestly am kinda surprised at how many people seem to think that guilty gear is just some sideshow scene at this point in the game. No it doesn’t have the classic following that the oldschool games have been built up on, but for a series that is only 4 years deep into it’s Evolution run it’s maintained and continued growth in constant fashion. It’s the only evo worthy 2d fighter to be released in the last 6 years, that alone should show it’s importance to being a part of the biggest tournament in america.
Some of these arguements I hear are awfully unfounded and lacking any real meat. “Guilty Gear players don’t play to win”: are you kidding me? Guilty gear has some great rivalries and constantly tense matchups. They aren’t the big names like Jwong, or Sanford, or Choi, so people just overlook it. Guilty gear players are just like any of the other players out there, they want the win, and they want it bad. Also the comment about gg players wanting team tournaments: if you recall Evo mandated GG would be a team game starting in 2K6 because they didn’t feel like enough consoles could be obtained to run a singles tourney. The community compromised because we agreed to do whatever it took to get a game we believe in at the tournament.
Guilty gear players work harder than most people will give credit for. They deal with getting shit on a lot because their game isn’t accepted by a lot of the big names or the old school talented players. To say the gg community might just “be letting evo do all the work” is pretty obscene in my opinion. We’ve sent in consoles, gone into long disertations trying to defend why our game should be part of this event, and genuineally have to put far more effort just to get to play the game at evo.
In short, I don’t blame anyone for considering changes at Evo, improvement should always be strived for. I just hope that in the long run that everyone can see that guilty gear players have worked their assess off to try and be an accepted part of the Evolution community. I think it would be a real shame to turn them aside just because a lot about the game and it’s players seem to be misunderstood by those who are most recognized by the Evo staff and coummunity.
Hi, can you answer one question for me? How does placing 1’st at Evo mean you are the best player when you consider the following things:
- You don’t play every single player in the tournament, so obviously it’s automatically determined that you can’t be the best simply by placing 1’st
- Not every single person who plays the game comes out to Evo, so again obviously placing 1’st doesn’t simply mean you’re the best.
With that in mind, team tourneys is no different than singles. If you come 1’st in singles, you still aren’t the best. If your team comes 1’st in teams, your players still aren’t the best because of course, 3 players can’t all be the ‘best’.
In that sense, your point of “You guys just want to have some fun and don’t want to see who is the best” becomes completely invalid.
The only way to determine who’s the best player is for every single player to fight against every other player and whoever beats everyone else or has the most wins is the best.
A tournament like Evo will never determine who’s the best player, so I believe your reasons for GG being a waste at Evo are far from anything realistic. You are hypocrital to your own points.
Japanese didn’t play it for 1 year, AC came out in December 2006 in Japan. It came out on console in April 2007. Despite the US’s short experience with the game, they still came pretty damn close to topping them off this year. Please do not exaggerate your points.
I want to call complete bullshit about your statements how the US do not care about winning. Just to prove you wrong here are some threads about how the US have been preparing to close their gap with the Japanese for Evo.
http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3300
http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3299
There is a reason why we have singles too. Teams are more interesting and raise the bar for hype. I say you have no idea what you are saying because there are plenty of people who play other games that will also play gg and the other way around. Don’t be misguided by the fuck tards who hate on capcom games cause other people hate on anime games. Also saying that we don’t play to win is incorrect, i don’t pay big money to come all the way to evo just to hang out.
First, GG has a large amount of people already and will have even more by next year.
Second, Why do you think that the GG community doesn’t expect to beat the Japanese. This year has been a lot better than previous years where instead of constantly being OCV’d by them we actually beat them. If this wasn’t the case then the top three teams would all be Japanese. We are getting there and many of us do not expect to just drop dead when facing them.
What i am to understand from your post is that you are assuming that every guilty gear player is the same and you just have the wrong impression from a certain someone you meet/talked to.
Posted on behalf of keeping GG:
I"m an old school gamer. I’m as old as Choi, and I’ve been playing that long.
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3260
If you don’t think the GG community is active, then check that thread. What does one thread prove? That in TENNESSEE of all fucking places, there is a 50 man event of almost solid GG going on. Yes, belive it or not, alot of us do play other games, and quite a few Capcom games. It would be detrimental to the growth of the community if Evo dumps us. We really are growing and evoloving, and also the last in the line of currently evolving 2D fighters. It is the top earning figher in Japan for a reason (don’t quote me on that, but I’ve heard that in the community)
Anyway, it’s definately a plea by myself and MANY others I know I speak for to not be dropped from the Evo roster. Don’t drop us, tell us exactly what needs to happen for us to stay on the roster for 2K8, please. I’ll chase this to as high up as it has to go, please know that. This post comes from MANY players in the community.
Well written, I hope this isn’t overlooked.
Also, any comments about the lack of audience or hype about GG finals can be almost completely attributed to it’s timeslot. 11:30 am at Vegas…
It also doesn’t help that even when things were run for GG, we had to compete with the other games for attention. When we wanted to run the 5v5 midwest vs US they wanted us to play and finish it DURING the Wong vs Darkprince going on in the corner. GG has almost no chance at attracting attention away from an event like that, from people who haven’t been exposed to it much.
Either way, GG has the community and should definitely continue to be at evo. While GG players generally don’t get as worked up about things as Marvel players, for example, we certainly still care and take it seriously.
I’m not sure where the comment about letting Evo do all the work for GG comes from, go to Dustloop and look at the events to see all the stuff that goes on. People really go out of their way to try and make sure stuff happens, because the game is generally less known due to it being newer and not having as big a foothold in the scene which is comprised of such a select group of people.
This might be the single most uninformed post in this entire thread. I will bet money that the Smash Brawl tournament at EVOX will draw more players than any other game, and have a HUGE level of crossover between all the other games… perhaps more so than any other game there.
The fact that TK6 will probably not be out on console by next Evo pretty much limits what we can do with it.
Like I mentioned before, if GG isn’t in, I’d give MB and/or AH a 0.0% chance of ever making it into Evo.
I take back what I said earlier about the single most uninformed post in the entire thread. The new honor goes to the above quote.
You heard wrong. I was the commentator, and I’ve gotten about 50 positive comments on the commentary for every negative one. I know Tekken, and the majority of the comments given by people were “I’m glad we got someone that actually knows the game to commentate.”
Then how did every single one of the VF players manage to show up on time? Their tournament was BEFORE GG.
Not a valid excuse.
Anyway, like I said, nothing is set in stone yet. This is just post-evo discussion to get what’s fresh in people’s minds, onto the table so we can plan for it next year.
That is exactly the type of attitude needed. With more of that (and action to back it up), there is a far greater chance of GG actually returning.
I wasn’t talking about the players- there is no excuse for them being late, the fault there goes entirely to the participants. I was referring to whoever said GG finals didn’t have a big crowd or much hype.
I’m going to try to avoid making an idiot of myself this time around, but um…
I think that it’s going to be difficult to justify
A. Cutting games with large scenes, such as CvS2, Tekken, and Guilty Gear and
B. Running tournaments for games like Soul Calibur and Puzzle Fighter in place of others.
I’ll admit that I’m probably very uninformed on some of these issues, but I saw a ton of Tekken casuals going on, a decent amount of CvS2, orders of magnitude more GG players showing up and being generally much better than before, and all three generating TONS of hype in finals as well as earlier brackets.
On the other hand, while there may be something I’m missing, I see 0 SC going on whatsoever. While I know that evo not holding official tournaments for that game may be a factor, the simple fact of the matter is that the community overlap with that game seems low if existant, at least in terms of participants. After all, there were plenty of HnK, Melty Blood, KoF, Garou, even X-Men v. Street Fighter games going on in the event hall.
I think it’s already been said, but Puzzle Fighter would definitely be fun to watch, but as a non-fighting game, it probably shouldn’t be considered for a slot that could otherwise go to something else.
I will definitely say for sure that Marvel, Third Strike, and probably Smash Bros. the most so aren’t going anywhere fast, as participants for those games come out in DROVES every year, and the hype stays huge. But the same is true of other games that you’re considering cutting (especially Tekken, GG, and probably CvS2), and I don’t think that Soul Calibur will bring out the numbers that those will.
But um… Honestly, I think it’s really too early to be making decisions. Tragic, you said it yourself: A lot of the numbers are subject to change drastically, and there’s a lot of time (at least a good half a year) before the final decisions need to be made.
And uh… if we have the means, a Japan qualifier would be super-cool, as we’d be able to attract like… two or three times the number of Japanese players that way.
I honestly think you just got offended by the Tekken commentary and instead of arguing like a mature man you tried to offend me. Obviously you were not reading what I wrote or you would not have written what you just wrote.
I completely agree that Smash Bros will have a huge number of entrants. Smash is big competitively, but not as big as FPS games. You don’t want to add FPS games to the roster, do you?
About the cross gaming, I am sorry to probably trigger your immature side once again, but I gotta call bullshit on that. Are you seriously saying that there were more Smash players at the ST touney than 3rd Strike players? Are you seriously implying that there were more Smash players at the CvS2 tourney than Marvel players? Unless everyone else that posted on every thread is a liar, you’re wrong here. Or maybe you’re just making a prediction with no reasonable basis whatsoever. Same effect.
It seems to me that you had trouble dealing with some very light criticism, and instead of answering my points politely like you did with everybody else, you started to turn into this big bully moderator. Maybe there’s a reason nobody said to you directly that they disliked the commentary. So far you are the only guy here who failed to be polite, IMO, despite your good start. If you want to go this way, I’ll just refrain from posting and let you be happy listening only to what will please you instead of different opinions.
I respected you even with the idea to take CvS2 out and put Puzzle Fighter in. I probably would be banned if I suggested the same thing.
I am happy just to participate in this thread, but being treated with a little bit of respect would be nice as well.
I just have one remaining angle to post about GG. You shouldn’t be writing long dissertations. You should be running tournaments.
I’ll consider all my other points and admit that GG players do play to win and everything I read in the AC thread was posted by a minority. I thought that the huge majority wanted to play AC and have a funny team gathering instead of seeing how good they were on even grounds in a game launched for a while. Maybe I was wrong.
But, guys, remember that CvS 2 may very well be getting the boot. Can GG show more tourneys and a bigger and more organized community than CvS2? If you can’t, and games will really be cut from Evo, GG is probably going down.
No one should pay attention to power333. He’s proven time and again that he’s a troll.
For a game that’s rarely promoted in the US, I think GG had a good run. It’s not the end of GG if it’s cut from the lineup, it just means that other tournaments are going to have to draw the numbers to prove that GG can hold its own. I have a feeling that, as long as we don’t get some dumb update in the next 2 years or so, AC will be sticking around for a long while.
The ultimate irony of it is that the US FINALLY broke top 2 in GG, and the community is taking some small steps in maturing. If its stateside release in September should prove popular, GG:AC should DEFINITELY be considered.
My opinion in how it should play out:
MVC2/CVS2/3S/ST:HD/SSBB/GG:AC
BYOC room should stay. If you must, close the BYOC when the main tournaments are running.
Why not VF5?- Look what happened to DOA5. Its player base is focused on XBL. It drew no one. VF5 drew probably the smallest player base in every qualifier. Considering that VF5 will have online matchmaking(on the X360 anyway), I’ll be very surprised if it doesn’t turn out the same way as DOA. I love VF5, but it doesn’t have a future at Evo. Not unless something BIG happens between now and EVO X.
Why not T5:DR/T6?- Same reasons as tragic stated.
Why not SC4?- Isn’t SC4 another console-only game? You know how well the last one was received among the hardcore players. Do we really need another repeat of that happening? Nevermind the fact that the majority of the player base is made up of casual fans who think they’re hardcore, or that most of the top players prefer SC/SC2 anyway. I feel that SC/SC2 would have more pull than SC4, but we will have to see how SC4 plays out.
sbo stopped doin cvs2
but they are a totally diff venue
displaying the new games. diff sponsorship and organization
but who knows theyre in japan
as far as the games selected
the cannons give the people what they want
which is a great thing
we have a whole yr to figure it out
and im sure the community appreciates the evo staff for putting the event together
the best way possible
for the people