Evolution X (2008): Decade of Domination!

[DS]

Yo… Get rid of BYOC.

So… 3S/CvS2 have to be one game due to hardware constraints… meanwhile people are playing World Heroes Perfect in the back? Chill…

It’s just stupid. If you want to play casuals, there’s a hotel full of people with TVs/PS2’s in the room. Take it there.

If we actually used our resources in the most optimal fashion, the tournaments (which are the real reason we come out, AFAIK) can be run in the most effective way possible.

I’d much rather see BYOC cut. I’d much rather see players just get DQ’d. I’d much rather see better organization in pools/semis. I’d much rather see a whole bunch of measures implemented before we start talking about cutting games.

Agreed.

It’s a matter of allocation of resources.

1 game 3S… meanwhile there are 6 TV’s being used for some doujin game… and 5 more split between obscure SNK games? That just doesn’t make sense.

I’m not sayng it was you guys’ fault. All I’m saying is that, had that been MY tournament, I would have taken all the BYOC TV’s, the TV’s that were running Mario Golf, the TV’s that were running that Yaris game, and some TV’s out of hotel rooms to make sure that 3S went off without a hitch.

And that’s not because of any bias. If you think I hate MB… I really hate Third.

The reality, though, is that 400+ people came out to play that game, so during the hours on Saturday that were dedicated to 3S, I would have used ALL of my resources for that. BYOC could resume after Third, but not a moment sooner.

That’s just my opinion.

And Nuki didn’t even get out of pools this year in CvS… and FOUR people got out of each pool…

Anyway, I’m in favor of cutting out BYOC as much as is necessary for the feature games to run optimally.

I wouldn’t mind seeing BYOC leave completely.

Yeah, yeah… SNK… Melty…insert other random scene… I really don’t see what BYOC brings to these communities. We’re all fighting game players… We’ve all heard of these games, and either decided to play them or ignore them. Seeing them in BYOC isn’t gonna cause me to have some epiphany about the game. HnK still looks dumb as shit… even in Vegas. There’s no reason to crowd the Evo floor with that shit. Take that shit to the room.

BYOC hate, too strong. See, the thing is, you shouldn’t take it out. You should cap off the TVs for each person that wants to run a side tourney. Like, maybe 2 TVs for each person. How many people enter Dark Geese’s side tournies for the SNK games? Maybe 13 or 14 for each. I dunno exactly, but let’s just use that. And mind you, there are a lot of TVs for BYOC.

It sucks that everything runs at random most of the time because I would have suggested having people reserve their BYOC TVs before EVO. But, whatever.

[HAV]

Ummmm… read my post again…

I’m not singling out any one scene.

I think BYOC in general is a waste of space and resources. That goes for any set-up used for HnK, Shaq Fu, Clay Fighter, or CvS2… If it takes space and TV’s away from featured games, and tournaments suffer, I think it needs to go.

I bring up the niche games because people argue that they need to be on the floor so people can be exposed to the games… As I said in my previous post, I don’t buy that. These games aren’t new… Everyone’s heard of them; everyone’s seen them. Seeing them in Vegas isn’t gonna change minds. Especially since there isn’t a single scene outside of Marvel that draws players in on hype alone. Marvel is the only game that feels different in large crowds from what it is on any given day, so letting me see the same-ass games that I’ve already seen, with zero added hype doesn’t really serve a purpose, as far as I’m concerned. Definitely not more of a purpose than actually running the major tournaments properly.

[Shotokan_Symphony]

except not everyone HAS seen those games. you can’t tell me that people will recognize AH or HnK the moment the see it, if they haven’t played it before.
Should the BYOC room stay? HELL yes. Should it run simultaneously with the big tournaments? HELL no, and especially NOT during Finals, but it shouldn’t be thrown out for a lack of planning.

[Vintage]

What’s all this nonsense about abolishing the BYOC? For many players, that’s the best part about Evo. That’s where many of us ACTUALLY get the opportunity to talk and meet one another. I do agree that things were a bit cluttered w/the BYOCs & tourney setups. Another room or segmenting a portion of the ballroom might solve this problem (assuming it’s feasabile). I hope BYOC stays. It’s bad enough that only 12 players on this site actually support SF2…and now to have a venue where SF2 could be set up to only get taken away? Bad idea.

I could just imagine Tomo or Schaefer showing up wanting to get some SF2 action. “Sorry fellas, they wont allow you guys to set anything up…you might want to come back to Evo if & when it goes back to Cal Poly.”

[Robust]

marvel team tourney on the big screen plz.

[Return_of_Shiki]

My opinion doesn’t mean much, since I’m a scrub and I’ve not been to Evo yet (but I’m definitely planning to come next year), however I wanna suggest that maybe stretching EVO to 3 days (Friday Night, Sat, and Sun) would solve of the time and space issues.

Yes, people are also concerned about school scheduling issues since many universities start around mid August, so why not move up the EVO Worlds date to the first weekend of Aug or so?

I’d really hate to see the game list be cut down from 8 to 6.
Obviously, 3S, Marvel, and Smash are probably never going to go away. ST HD is also a lock given that it will be new and heavily promoted. That only leaves 2 spots left, which means one or more of games like Tekken, CvS2, Guilty Gear, other 3-D fighters, SNK fighters, Mario Kart, Wii Boxing, Dat Madden, Puzzle Fighter, Bullet Ball or whatever will have to be cut.
I think cutting out and alienating any group such as the Tekken community, the GG community, general 3-D fighting community is a bad idea.

Why not hold the pools on Friday? That way the people who travel and qualify at EVO North/South/East/West are also rewarded by not having to show up until Saturday and also don’t have to wait for pools to finish.

[Magnus02]

My opinion doesn’t mean much, since I’m a scrub and I’ve not been to Evo yet (but I’m definitely planning to come next year), however I wanna suggest that maybe stretching EVO to 3 days (Friday Night, Sat, and Sun) would solve of the time and space issues.

Yes, people are also concerned about school scheduling issues since many universities start around mid August, so why not move up the EVO Worlds date to the first weekend of Aug or so?

I’d really hate to see the game list be cut down from 8 to 6.
Obviously, 3S, Marvel, and Smash are probably never going to go away. ST HD is also a lock given that it will be new and heavily promoted. That only leaves 2 spots left, which means one or more of games like Tekken, CvS2, Guilty Gear, other 3-D fighters, SNK fighters, Mario Kart, Wii Boxing, Dat Madden, Puzzle Fighter, Bullet Ball or whatever will have to be cut.
I think cutting out and alienating any group such as the Tekken community, the GG community, general 3-D fighting community is a bad idea.

Why not hold the pools on Friday? That way the people who travel and qualify at EVO North/South/East/West are also rewarded by not having to show up until Saturday and also don’t have to wait for pools to finish.

[Chritorisu]

:shake:

[Shotokan_Symphony]

words

jesus fucking christ

[caliagent_3]

Do you think the Melty tourney would have had a whopping 45 entrants (and 12-13 teams) with some actually getting rejected due to time constraints if it was held in the room? Come on now. BYOC actually DOES make people wanna play new games if they see some cool shit in the game. Nothing wrong with liking the old capcom games that we’ve played for 2/3rd’s of a decade, but BYOC is one of the best chnces in the US FGC to promote new games, and actually be able to play international comp.

On that note, I fully support Trag’s idea to put big byoc tourney finals on the big screen. It would be a sick idea and it would be evo’s way of promoting ourneys for small or growing scenes, even if they dont support them officially. Of course if you wanna add any of these new gams to the official Evo roster then that’s fine by me too. :lovin:

Wanting to ‘shoo’ the BYOC away is just shameful. Just because YOU dont like something RIGHT NOW, does not mean that it can’t be liked by others, or even grow to have a very respectably sized scene. You may even end up liking it in the future.

This needs to happen in the main event hall. The reasons have been stated 10x over.

More tables and more TVs could be set up in the ballroom, if evo had access to them and the ability to run power away from the walls of the room. There is a lot of ‘wasted space’ in the ballroom, and it wouldnt be too difficult to lay it out so that there were a good 6-12 more tables full of TVs for byoc or pools (whichever needs them).

It’s not even about hating the games. I’d like games like samurai shodown to get more exposure, and thanks to dark geese SNK games at BYOC get noticed. BUT, if the main tourney can be run 200% more efficiently, i think it’s worth looking into cutting down BYOC severly or taking it out all together. And like i said before, maybe we’ll find out that we finish pools early and have more time. IF that happens we could actually add the most popular games from BYOC of previous yrs. to the main lineup or bring back one of the dropped games.

[skisonic]

Lots of you guys have the wrong idea. Cutting BYOC is not the answer.

Although the tournament did explode last minute and cause problems, there are many other contributing factors to the time delay issues. One of the main, if not the main issue, was people not showing up for their games. 3S did not really have problems with tv’s. The number of tv’s was probably adequate, but if 4 tvs arent being used because brackets are at a stand-still, taking 4 extra t.v.'s from BYOC is not going to help that.

I know EVO staff isn’t perfect, but crunching numbers on how many t.v.s are going suit a 300-400 man tournament is not exactly rocket science, and these guys are the absolute best at it. Even 40 men signing up last minute, that kind of thing can be accounted for. But they can’t account for half of the contestants leaving the pool area for indiscriminate amounts of time, bogging down the whole process. When you have SO many people running in and out, or not showing up, it impacts the process worse than another few setups. Really, the only thing this more t.v.'s deal would work is if you had SO many tv’s that EVERYONE had to play immediately, or else get dq’d. As long as people have to wait between matches, they’re going to cause delays, but there are other things to address before piling on a bunch of t.v.s ineffectively, at the cost of alienating hordes of gamers.

Cut BYOC? Are you guys kidding me? BYOC was one of the sickest additions to EVO ever. The best BYOC, imo, was the first one which was held in a separate room in 2k4 iirc, but this set up unfortunately gives us more of the issue which I’ve already explained for obvious reasons.
But seriously, CUT BYOC? Are you guys even gamers? Lets take 20+ t.v.s away from masses that have dropped tons of money coming here to meet and play with each other, and tell them to hack it out in the hotel rooms? That place is gigantic guys. Please be serious.
Online registration next year is gonna be mandatory. More than likely, personal joystick issues aren’t going to be accepted. This year, and all previous years, another MAJOR contribution to time delays is “I don’t have my stick.” for whatever reason, followed by anywhere between 1 minute to an hour of shuffling around before a match finally gets played. Expect next year, “I don’t have my stick” to be same thing as not being there, and getting a dq, or maybe a short timer at best.

Seriously, all I really wanted to say was, throwing finals of the side tourneys on the big screen, I think is a great idea. Most of these tourneys are finishing during random times of the day, so it shouldn’t interfere with any other big screen action. But when I say finals, I mean grand finals only. 2 Guys go up, sit down play after a short bit of announcing what is about to happen, play their games and leave. No stick switching, minimal button config, no waiting for anything. I think it would be a good addition big screen pre-finals lineup, which is generally a stream of unidentified players in whatever game has a pool going on at the station next to the camera, and wouldn’t require a lot of maintenance.

Additionally, and I know you guys are surely aware, but a little bit of investigation into the/a P.A. system with the actual room acoustics and everything might help. I know personally, I couldn’t really hear anything anyone said on the mic until Tekken finals and afterwards, Im not sure if it was just the people speaking or if the issue was resolved. I know you guys hooked up like a bootleg speaker system output this year, if you run with that next year, maybe something like a really cheap set of speakers and some wire to run it more around the room, get a couple speakers back to the BYOC area, that might help. Also, more microphones to go around would be nice, maybe one for each side of the room and the scorers table, if not one for each pool.

And hey, if you’re going to make people sign up online next year, maybe a nice thing to work out would be taking cell phone numbers of willing entrants, and setting up a system where they can get a text message when their pool is going to begin or something? I dunno… something for like, the NEXT step…
I think thats all I got. [not] Sorry for the novel.

[DevilJin_01]

Yes, people are also concerned about school scheduling issues since many universities start around mid August, so why not move up the EVO Worlds date to the first weekend of Aug or so?

Dat Madden, Puzzle Fighter, Bullet Ball…

I agree with moving Evo date up a couple weeks just so it’s easier for people going to college. Literally more than half of the people that go to Evo are college age students.

Dat Madden. That might have been the part where people went WTF.

[HAV]

I could hear the mic just fine…

“Justin Wong!!! Justin!!! Wooooong!!!”

[DS]

I agree with moving Evo date up a couple weeks just so it’s easier for people going to college. Literally more than half of the people that go to Evo are college age students.

Dat Madden. That might have been the part where people went WTF.

You people that want to move the date up are forgetting about SBO.

[System_1]

I guess that is where the priority separates. Should Evolution care more about the average players (most of whom are still in college) or for the Japanese and SBO qualifiers. We could have Evolution towards the end of July … on the other hand, SBO4 was held on May 3rd to May 5th. Perhaps they are going to change the date again.

[fatboy]

What’s all this nonsense about abolishing the BYOC? For many players, that’s the best part about Evo. That’s where many of us ACTUALLY get the opportunity to talk and meet one another.

Vintage hits the head right on with this. The byoc is a blast. This is why it should stay.

1. It is a draw. Ppl come just for the BYOC. Having more ppl at evo makes the EVO itself more exciting. Having so many ppl there really makes you feel like you a part of something. Your not a Fighting game fan at EVO, youre a part for a whole sub culture. Your in a room filed of ppl who geek out on the same stuff you do. There is a room of ppl going bonkers during the finals and special events. If there was not as many ppl there, EVO would not be as exciting for many of them I would imagine.

2. It’s where many of players get the opportunity to talk and meet one another.

3. It is a place for those who don’t live in close to an arcade or other (good) players to get some great play time in, without BS of lag (XBL). Basically, it gives you a chance to play some REAL Street Fighter. :karate:

This year I got to play some great players in the BYOC in ST. Gian, Tokido, Valle, G. Wolfe, DXP, Cole, Beasely, Nelson, and a Several others. It was a blast. No other set-up, EVEN THE ST TOURNY ITSELF (due to its natural design), would not have allowed me to play that many GOOD players.

Anyway, I love :lovin: the BYOC. Yes, there are some STUPID games being played. Yes, there needs to be some regulation. However, I really feel if you cut the BYOC as a whole, you will hurt EVO in the long run because from my POV, there would be less incentive for the “status quo” players to go. Many ppl go to EVO JUST for the BYOC. It doesn’t take much to figure that out.

[System_1]

i’m calling it XEVO (chevo)

and guess i’ll be there =) it’s a looong way from brazil, but i’ll be there hauaehuaheueahua are there any support programs for foreigners? EHUeaEAHUeahuEAHUEaea or i’ll have to sell my house to go =O

[jchensor]

Additionally, and I know you guys are surely aware, but a little bit of investigation into the/a P.A. system with the actual room acoustics and everything might help. I know personally, I couldn’t really hear anything anyone said on the mic until Tekken finals and afterwards, Im not sure if it was just the people speaking or if the issue was resolved.

About the announcing part, it’s just about people who have speaking voices and people who don’t. Tragic (who did Tekken) has one of the best announcing voices in the scene, his voice carries extremely well. Other people have really BAD announcing voices (like yours truly) that, even if they pumped up the volume in the room and had perfect acoustics, people still wouldn’t be able to hear me.

• James
  http://jchensor.blogspot.com

[System_1]

Main points so far. Correct me if I’m wrong.

DQs - Everybody in the whole thread agrees they should be mandatory. Skisonic’s point about not having a stick is the same as DQ is probably agreed too.

Registration - Almost everybody agrees they should be online only. If you suddenly decided to show up on the last day then too bad. Go play at the BYOC or do some MMs. You can still have a lot of fun.

Roster - We can discuss this forever. Every community should keep working on their scene and see what the organizers decide next year. Almost nobody wants Puzzle Fighter or other non fighting games.

Side events vs Extra Tourneys - Side events are winning by a little bit I think. This one deserves more debate.

BYOC - More people think it should stay.

Better organization - There are many posts on the thread that can help enhance the quality of the organization even more. The organizers are certainly taking note of what can be helpful.

Date - A week earlier seems to be nice to avoid possible school problems.

Length of the tourneys - 4 days would be too much for most people.

I think that sums it up a good part of what was discussed here. Let’s keep it going.

[DS]

Date - A week earlier seems to be nice to avoid possible school problems.

Yeah, no. Again: SBO is two weeks before EVO. There are PEOPLE FROM A-M-E-R-I-C-A that qualify for SBO that end up going to Japan. Those people need to rest also before they head out to EVO. But either way, I doubt they’ll push the date up any earlier.